Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic January 4, 1999

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:02 AM): Okay, so who's up first?

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Benjamin Fitts (1/4/99 9:03 AM): I don't have questions today. Just here to listen and participate

ScottM (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Benjamin Fitts (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Hi Muhammed

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:03 AM): well, I am in the process of reading this book, and it is kinda giving me the idea that you guys are a real gold mine, when I am at a loss for ideas :))

Benjamin Fitts (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Ever notice it is always the same group of people? (Hi Scott)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Looks like Muhammad has his own consulting, Muhammed?

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:03 AM): Okay Rob, where is this big deal you had for us?

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:04 AM): Hello Ben

Benjamin Fitts (1/4/99 9:04 AM): What book Louise? (I just bought Burn Rate)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:04 AM): What book are you reading?

ScottM (1/4/99 9:04 AM): It's just the "smart" group /// Morning All!

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:04 AM): Perhaps I do Rob, actually I was just testing a .asp based chat

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:05 AM): a guide to Women Entrepreneurialship in Canada

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:05 AM): are you from the great white north Louise,

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:06 AM): Well, because I don't want to lead anyone on, I don't want to blab too much. But it will greatly boost our business building power. Looking for launch in February.

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:07 AM): More like the Pacific Rainforest Muhammed LOL

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:07 AM): are there any opportunities for us in the manufacturing sector, Rob? something interesting?

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:08 AM): Ahh the pacific northwest

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:08 AM): Yes, Louise, absolutely. In fact, every type of business will be able to benefit. I built this thing based on our first year trends.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:10 AM): Good morning Dave

Dave - (1/4/99 9:10 AM): Yo! Duuuudes

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:11 AM): hiya Dave, visited your site :) You are a really talented writer, I think!

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:11 AM): Roses are red, violets are blue, if you like love poems, then Dave's site's for you.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:12 AM): Now THAT'S talent....

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:12 AM): :oÞ

Dave - (1/4/99 9:12 AM): Question... Does s site with significant depth imply a low CTR? If a person visits 10 pages on a site won't he be less likely to click again?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:13 AM): If you're asking about that site's banners, I'

ScottM (1/4/99 9:13 AM): That's why I hate CTR Dave... More opportunity can mean more total clicks.. But the CTR is an inaccurate way to measure that!

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:14 AM): If you're asking about that site's banners, I'd be inclined to say "yes". It implies your visitors are too engrossed in your content to click away.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:14 AM): I don't follow you

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:15 AM): I agree. That's why I often recommend flat fee or sponsorship.

Mike (1/4/99 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

ScottM (1/4/99 9:15 AM): Total Clicks = More $$$... CTR is only good for the effectiveness of a single banner. That's why flat fee and sponsorship work so well.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:15 AM): Well, if your site is very involved, the content is intriguing people to go further into the site, ignoring the banners as they go. That means lower CTR's.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:16 AM): Too engrossed is one thing but what I mean is that they have already seen the ad so why click again

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:16 AM): On the other hand, if your site is garbage and the content sucks, people are less interested and pay more attention to the banners. If they find it more interesting, they click.

ScottM (1/4/99 9:17 AM): Does that mean I should make my site "suck"?? =8-)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:17 AM): If they've already seen the ad, it may make no difference. Few ads work with just one exposure. It would have to be very timely and impulsive.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:18 AM): So the path to success is to make a lousy site?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:18 AM): Yes, Scott. Go out right now and garbage it up. For crying out loud....

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:19 AM): But you get my drift. If someone goes to your site for a page of data and nothing more, they have no interest in hanging around. But poring through tomes of poetry is another thing, in your case.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:19 AM): I know , I know ...I'll put Rob's poem on the site

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:19 AM): No, the path to success is "The right tool for the right job". If al you're doing is herding eyeballs, your site doesn't have to be great. It has to be well-publicized.

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:21 AM): you ought to put up Rob's poem, and then add a poll asking everyone how they like it, or not LOL.. but is another way of getting interactivity, and on the results page, you can put an ad there...

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:21 AM): I suppose that a good rule of thumb is that the longer you keep them, the worse CTR will do for you, which is probably the answer you were looking for.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:21 AM): See? Louise is ALWAYS thinking...

ScottM (1/4/99 9:21 AM): And in that case TOTAL click thrus would be my measure.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:22 AM): It also goes to my main peeve, which is that advertising as a MAIN source of revenue is a risky proposition at best.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:22 AM): The question is do I have a fundamental problem... or rather TWO.... I have people who want to lead love poems AND They read a LOT of poems and, therefore, see multiple ads.

ScottM (1/4/99 9:23 AM): Rob.. Another question... Have opportunity for some M&A activity that's profitable from the word "go".. Question... How to fund?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:23 AM): Yeah, Dave, but they're sticking around your site for a long time. Scott's on to it: you need to figure out a better way to garner revenue from advertisers.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:23 AM): What are the funding parameters? How much is the deal worth and who profits/

ScottM (1/4/99 9:25 AM): Cash flow profitable at prime+ significant - 11 deals currently available - up to 2million total

Mike (1/4/99 9:25 AM): Another question: I'm building a site and looking at programs for building affiliates. Any feedback or recommendations? Clicktrade seems too costly (and now supports Microsoft) and site replicators seem cheap and MLMish

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:25 AM): I' m not clear: are you buying or being bought?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:26 AM): Mike, tell us more about yourself. I may have a solution for you.

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:26 AM): Do you mean programs as a support network and affiliate management, or do you mean software to track affiliate purchases

ScottM (1/4/99 9:27 AM): Buying... costs fixed, both I and the funder makes money.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:28 AM): Scott, if you go VC, you're going to need a lot of time and it'll cost you about 60% of the action. So give away your future. Can you handle a debt situation?

ScottM (1/4/99 9:28 AM): Debt would be my favorite way.. or an Angel investor

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:29 AM): I'm still not sure I understand this: are you being backed by an investor or going into business with him?

ScottM (1/4/99 9:29 AM): Need to find an investor, or a source of debt financing

ScottM (1/4/99 9:30 AM): would rather not bring in another partner if I can help it.

ScottM (1/4/99 9:30 AM): Rob.. I'll call you later. Don't want to take up others time here.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:31 AM): If you're looking for less than $5 million, you're best off going for a commercial loan. The second best is private offering.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:32 AM): Mike, did you want to discuss the affiliate issue?

Mike (1/4/99 9:32 AM): yes, I didn't mean to interrupt.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:32 AM): Free and clear, pal.

Mike (1/4/99 9:33 AM): I know there are some scripts out there for affiliates but would like to hear feedback or any suggestions.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:34 AM): Mike, are you a regular FrankelBee? On the list?

Mike (1/4/99 9:35 AM): No. Stumbled on your site this weekend and thought I'd check Monday chat out.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:37 AM): Okay, that's what I thought. If you post this request to the FrankelBiz list, you'd probably get about 25 responses from members. I also will be announcing a service in February (pretty sure) to address this problem.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:38 AM): But FrankelBiz members are extremely helpful with this stuff. In fact, I'm working with one now on the solution I mentioned.

Mike (1/4/99 9:38 AM): I just subscribed

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:39 AM): BTW, we just switched servers, so FrankelBiz traffic may burp over the next day or so.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:40 AM): Mike, what exactly are you looking for?

Mike (1/4/99 9:41 AM): A way of accurately tracking affiliates through order and providing them live feedback

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:42 AM): Is this for your own business or providing affiliates to others?

Mike (1/4/99 9:42 AM): This would be for my own site.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:43 AM): What kind of business are you in?

Mike (1/4/99 9:43 AM): I would like to offer commissions of my products to affiliates

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:43 AM): Don't be shy about plugging your URL, either. It only helps, here...

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:44 AM): Mike, what kind of product?

Mike (1/4/99 9:45 AM): I haven't gone online yet. But thought it best to integrate tracking scripts in launch (February).

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:46 AM): don't be obscure, Mike, what ARE you selling?

Mike (1/4/99 9:46 AM): Press Release services. I have background in journalism and press release submission. Have spent past four months networking and querying editors agreeing to accept press releases via emails

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:46 AM): Any reason you DON'T want to reveal more detail? Can't help too much without certain information...and neither can the folks with us

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:47 AM): Don't be afraid, what are you selling?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:47 AM): I mean, we respect that, but realize that these are the people who are going to help you out.

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 9:47 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:47 AM): Interesting

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:47 AM): In fact, some of our biggest deals have started right here between total strangers.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:48 AM): What's interesting?

ScottM (1/4/99 9:48 AM): I'm assuming this is to be a little more targeted and higher priced than the others on the net?? (i.e. Results Oriented?)

Mike (1/4/99 9:49 AM): Well, I have 4,500 editors agreeing to accept targeted email press releases. The name is still in trademark arrangements (so reluctant to give out).

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:50 AM): Don't give out anything like that. you can keep it general.

Mike (1/4/99 9:50 AM): Many others on the net (with notable exception of are sending spam (unsolicited; unqueried emails).

Dave - (1/4/99 9:50 AM): How does the affiliate make money and how does he function

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 9:50 AM): that's ok, we understand that :) what is a targeted email press release ( for us newbies?)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:50 AM): Okay, so what's the revenue model for the affiliates?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:51 AM): Louise, that's a press release that goes only to those who would be interested in it, as opposed to blasting to everyone.

Mike (1/4/99 9:51 AM): I believe affiliates should received 25% That figure is so high because they are making you money and establishing name identity.

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 9:51 AM): Mike, how tightly targeted are you talking about?

Dave - (1/4/99 9:51 AM): Push Tech.?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Mike (1/4/99 9:52 AM): Once I have a customer, I really believe my excellent service will keep them for life. I'd love to offer more than 25% but that's my threshold for a startup with modest capital.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:52 AM): Okay, now WHO are the affiliates? PR people?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:53 AM): Or are these more like a commissioned sales staff?

Mike (1/4/99 9:53 AM): How targeted? If you are agriculturally related, I can differential the cows from the soybeans (editors covering those topics)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:53 AM): And do these affiliates sell subscriptions to your service?

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:54 AM): Hey, this sounds great.

Mike (1/4/99 9:54 AM): I'd like to offer affiliates to anyone who feels they can bring me sales. I have been wrestling with how tightly I'd monitor affiliates (allow personal website owners?)

Mike (1/4/99 9:55 AM): Right. I would rather the sales be linked to my site and my order form using cgi scripts to track and monitor sales/commissions.

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 9:55 AM): Sounds like a level of targeting that does not exist, and will be great to have... btw, Mike, are you from Richmond (trying to figure out if you are the "Mike" I owe an email to)

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:55 AM): Mike, the last piece in the puzzle is what these affiliates take 25% of. A one time placement fee? Or per placement?

Muhammad( (1/4/99 9:56 AM): Well personal web site owners, may not send you much business. While Internet Marketing companies should be able to send you a lot of business.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:56 AM): If Ira likes it, it must be good....

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:57 AM): I think you can set it up with a turnkey operation. Mike, e-mail me directly at so that I have your contact information. I think I can help you out in February.

Dave - (1/4/99 9:57 AM): What is the cost of signing up for the service

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 9:57 AM): Thanks Rob :)

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 9:58 AM): Mike, I think I have another option for you to consider, a service about to be launched by one of my clients, email me at and I'll get you details...

RobFrankel (1/4/99 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Mike (1/4/99 10:00 AM): Thanks

Mike (1/4/99 10:00 AM): Pricing is still being worked out.

RobFrankel (1/4/99 10:00 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online!

Dave - (1/4/99 10:00 AM): Later Duuuudes

ScottM (1/4/99 10:01 AM): Later All!

Mike (1/4/99 10:01 AM): Not from Richmond, from Rockville,MD

Dave - (1/4/99 10:01 AM): Try that again, Later Duuudes!

Muhammad( (1/4/99 10:02 AM): Later guys, Dave - Love Poetry, I'll call you on Wednesday.

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:02 AM): I know I only have a couple of minutes, but I have finally reached the stage where I believe a sales rep is needed :)

Dave - (1/4/99 10:02 AM): Ok Thanks

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:03 AM): shucks, guess MY timing was off LOL

Dave - (1/4/99 10:03 AM): Louise, What Is your web site about?

Ira Pasternack (1/4/99 10:03 AM): OK Mike, thought you might have been someone I corresponded with last month.. but anyway, email me and I'll get you info on one affiliate option that might be just what you need... also, I've got a few ideas for you about marketing the affiliate program... gotta run now, but I'm at bye all, I hope to make it on time next week. :)

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:05 AM): I manufacture luxurious soaps and other toiletries

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:05 AM): now if I could only learn how to spell!

Dave - (1/4/99 10:06 AM): Do women use them? LovePoetry women? My site has 80% women.

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:06 AM): yes, women with dry or sensitive skin is my target market :)

Dave - (1/4/99 10:08 AM): I invite you to visit LovePoetry. I have new advertisers that are women oriented. If you want you can e-mail me at

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:09 AM): I have visited it, think it is great... do you have icq?

Dave - (1/4/99 10:09 AM): What is your URL?

Dave - (1/4/99 10:11 AM): I assume you are gone. If not, e-mail me. Bye all...

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:11 AM):

Dave - (1/4/99 10:11 AM): I visited it

Dave - (1/4/99 10:12 AM): I left a comment, I think.

Dave - (1/4/99 10:13 AM): Can I suggest you go to

Louise the SoapLady (1/4/99 10:14 AM): was that you? I do get lots of comments, always a work in progress, especially when my techie decides to reinstall my system, and leaves me without an editor.. grrr

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