Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:00 AM): hey Rob

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:00 AM): Happy Monday morning to you, rob.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:01 AM): Oops. having trouble with my browser. Back in a sec....

Hi, Rob. This is my first peep. I've just been lurking before. (1/22/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Hi, Rob. This is my first peep. I've just been lurking before. (1/22/2001 9:01 AM): Oops, will log in.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:02 AM): Hello, my first FrankelBee chat, though I've been reading the transcripts. Can't stay long as it's mid day here.

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:02 AM): wb Rob

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:02 AM): Okay, I'm back! How's everyone doing today? Who wants to go first?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:02 AM): Katsuey, you can go first if you like.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:04 AM): Unless anyone else wants to jump in...

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:04 AM): Oh how nice but I don't have any specific question. I'm here to watch

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:05 AM): Well, that leaves Ian if he's still around...or anyone else.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:06 AM): Do we have anyone who's NOT from the USA today?

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:06 AM): yep .. me

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Hi, Rob, I have a question for you. (1/22/2001 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:07 AM): Lately, we got a huge surge of members from outside USA and Canada...I'm talking Czech Republic, Malaysia and all kinds of neat places.

Hi, Rob, I have a question for you. (1/22/2001 9:07 AM): I don't know why I'm not logging in properly. Help!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:07 AM): Go ahead, but re-log on so we know who's asking the question. Sometimes the server traps your question in the name tag.

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:08 AM): HEY... Canada is a neat place LOL

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:08 AM): Just close your browser and log back on when you open it.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:08 AM): Yes, Patti, Canada is a neat place. I agree. I love Canada.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:09 AM): I'm SUCH a political animal....

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:09 AM): not that I'm at all prejudiced

Teri - http://www.360WebMarketing.com (1/22/2001 9:09 AM): Does anyone have any suggestions about product placement for online businesses?

Okay, I'm a knucklehead. I closed browser. Came back. Where do I log in? (1/22/2001 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:10 AM): Can you be more specific?

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:10 AM): Rob, you helped me very well a few weeks ago - we were talking about my hometown portal for an area of Houston, Texas. This branding thing is neat. Now, everything I try seems to come from that angle.

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:11 AM): try using your name first and then ask when you see it come up

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:11 AM): Try QUITTING your browser. Then restart it and log on. Who is this?

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:11 AM): Well how about if I ask Rob about how to brand domain name registrations (http://www.RGreatHosts.com/) since I don't see any talking going on. I'm trying to take a share of the discount market and have my pricing lower than anyone to my knowledge. Now how to lead the horses to water?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:11 AM): You bet Frederick. And now that you see that, you'll build a much stronger business based on that brand. Good for you!

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:12 AM): Okay, I'm in. Phew...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:12 AM): Katsuey, price is the one thing that is not really important to a brand./ Especially lowering your price. If you're well-branded, you should be able to command a premium price!

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:13 AM): Rob, how come you switched your focus from advertising to branding?

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:13 AM): right, but I'm trying to grab the market.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:13 AM): The whole point of branding is to add enough value so that people move off pricing as one of their decision points.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:13 AM): Sorry I've just figured out to read upwards, not downwards <G>

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): Meehna, I switched for a bunch of reasons. First, Advertising changed so much that even the big agencies started to pursue small accounts.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): Once I get the market I want, then I can consider raising the price.

Scott (cosimo.net) (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): katsuey... If your price is the same, but your service is superior, you don't compete with the people registering thru you (ISPs), you don't have to worry about price.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): Also, advertising lost its marketing roots., It's now a media game.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): Wrong, katsuey. Never gonna happen.

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:14 AM): consider you might not be getting the market because you're too low now

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): Most importantly, advertising is a very risky, low margin business. Branding is just the opposite.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): well with domain name registration, the market is a bit different since I can't control everything.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): Lexus built a brand. They commanded a price.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): They didn't start low to get interest and then raise the bar.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): Finally, NOBODY out there really understand what branding is or how it affects the bottom line. At least nobody I know. Which means the market was totally open for me.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:15 AM): But, once you have a strong brand, you've got to know how to get it out there.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:16 AM): Katsuey, nobody can control everything. The only thing you need to control is your brand and everything associated with its propagation.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:16 AM): Well, thanks to you, we're learning about branding and becoming more valuable :)

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:17 AM): Meehna, that's my problem now. The service that I can give is there, the price is there, now I need to get the message out.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:17 AM): Meehna, that's the point of one of my Laws of Big Time Branding: First you build the brand, THEN you raise its awareness through advertising and PR.

Scott (cosimo.net) (1/22/2001 9:17 AM): katsuey - But you can control how you approach the business. I'm an ISP and I HATE NETSOL!, they actively attempt to steal my customers, make it difficult to make appropriate changes, don't answer their phones. If you cover the fundamentals and brand yourself properly, you should have no problems.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:17 AM): Katsuey, you are talking about advertising and raising the awareness of your business, not branding.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:17 AM): I bought the book. Just waiting for arrival.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:18 AM): Katsuey, price is always a losing strategy.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:18 AM): Well I am having problems, or at least let's say that I'm not where I want to be. How do I get there - it's a big market place.

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:18 AM): Much of this is about How to get your name recognized. Instead, What are your thoughts about *creating* a name that can be branded easily?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:18 AM): Thanks, Meehna. Lots of people have found it very helpful.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:19 AM): Hmm, perhaps I should have played off "Katsuey" which is a well known name in some Internet circles.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:20 AM): Katsuey, if you read only one thing, read the Prime Directive. If you can't answer that -- and believe me, low price ain't the answer -- you've got a branding problem.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:20 AM): Once you're done with this line of thought. Can I jump in with a different question?

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:21 AM): But with web designers, the largest market purchasing domain name registrations, brand doesn't seem to make the difference that price makes

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:21 AM): Are you only marketing to those internet circles (niches) or you trying to gather multiple streams of business?

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:21 AM): Where do I find "prime directive"?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:21 AM): Sure, Meehna. Just a sec. Katsuey, don't make the mistake that so many others do. DON'T try to go for global market share. Build from a small loyal base and get THEM to evangelize your brand and build it for you. It's cheaper and more effective.

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 9:22 AM): not really katsuey.. I will not pay less and then tolerate poor service response

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:22 AM): multiple streams, with a large concentration on web designers.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:22 AM): Katsuey, then it may be they're the wrong market for you. I go into this a LOT on the tapes (no plug, just fact).

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:22 AM): Katsuey, it's on my home page and every e-mail I send.

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:23 AM): k.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:23 AM): Meehna, you want jump in?

katsuey (1/22/2001 9:23 AM): I'm late, gotta run, thanks for the thoughts. I'll be back to read the whole transcript later.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:24 AM): Sure! I want to know how to position myself to get in at an ad agency or place where I can work with all these branding concepts.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:25 AM): <---3/4ths the way through Evolution. Not impressed. :(

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:25 AM): Whoops. EVEolution (Faith Popcorn's book).

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:25 AM): Unfortunately, Meehna, I have yet to find the ad agency who truly understands or knows how to implement branding

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:25 AM): My last job I was a content producer for a startup. Ultimately, like all these folks I'd like to be in business for myself.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:26 AM): Del in my book, Faith Popcorn = Overpaid Hack....

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:26 AM): What does that mean, Del? Directed towards me?

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:26 AM): Thank you! And boy does she try to position her company and her cowriter's company in the best, most pretentious light.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:27 AM): Meehna, advertising is a lot of fun. But it's a young person's business. After 30, you have to keep looking over your shoulder. And there's no security in it at all.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:27 AM): Meehna: no.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:27 AM): Faith Popcorn is the ultimate proof of my "emperor's new clothes' syndrome. Nobody dares challenge here so she really believes her stuff!

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:27 AM): Well, where do I start? I'm positioning myself to jump in for the I-advertising division since I have a lot of web experience.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:28 AM): BTW Rob, I'm not that old :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:28 AM): Most good people in advertising leave the business because they realize they're building other people's fortunes and nothing for themselves.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:29 AM): Any opinion on: e-loyalty (Ellen Smith), Business to Business Direct Mar Marketing (Robert Bly) or Advertising & the Mind of the Consumer (Max Sutherland)?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:29 AM): Meehna, I AM that old, so let me just tell you that the OLD farts who say in ad agencies are usually people who rose through attrition.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:29 AM): The big question: how does a smart woman start building for herself if she doesn't feel she has the experience yet?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:29 AM): Haven't read them, Del. Sorry.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:30 AM): <---is an info junkie.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:31 AM): My point is that while you can gain exposure to advertising issues in an agency, you're best off using that experience to learn them and then go someplace else to apply them. As for branding, hey, I had to start my own gig because there were no qualified places that knew what they were talking about. They were mostly warmed over graphics firms.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:31 AM): But you had a client base and a reputation. I'm switching careers, so to speak.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:32 AM): Meehna, when I was a lad, some big agencies actually had training programs that they didn't publicize. I actually got my first experience at a huge agency that way.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:32 AM): Does training=paid? A girl's got to eat.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:32 AM): Also, begging helps. I literally made appointments and offered to work for whatever they would pay me, figuring I was young and had no overhead and would do anything just to break in. It worked.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:33 AM): I'm willing and able and believe that anyone who let me get a toenail in the door will be damn glad they hired me!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:33 AM): Meehna, advertising entry positions pay very low. It's the glamour thing. Why not go for an agency position and then freelance at the same time? I used to do that and ended up paying the art directors in the agency more than they were making at the agency!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:34 AM): That may be, but that's what EVERY new person says.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:34 AM): Have you tried posting to the I-advertising list about this?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:34 AM): What city are you located in?

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:35 AM): I'm in Santa Monica. I noticed from your area code, you're in the Valley. I grew up there. Okay, I'm begging.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:35 AM): Forgive my ignorance. What is the I-advertising list?

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:36 AM): Meehna: Perhaps I missed it. Are you a creative? GA? GD? Illustrator? Copywriter?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:36 AM): Hey, L.A. and Santa Monica have plenty of openings. I you want, contact me offline and I'll see if I can give you some leads. Go to http://www.i-advertising.org This is Adam Boettigers list and one of the best.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:37 AM): Anyone else have a topic they want to approach?

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:37 AM): Following on from Katsuey's remarks, Rob - What's in a name? Should we start with a name then brand it, or determine a branding concept then figure out a name?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:38 AM): I always go with the latter, Frederick. It just makes more sense that way, because people see the name first.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:38 AM): No, Del. You didn't miss it. I'm a creative. Copywriting and concepts are my strength. I got my degree from in English from UCLA and a Masters from USC'S Film School. Very creative background and understand how to communicate messages. Okay, enough about me. feel like I'm reeling off resume <G>... probably am :)

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:38 AM): OK. Bit late, though, if one already has a name?!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:39 AM): This is also why you see so many brands with ridiculous names, or names with completely discordant brands

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:39 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:39 AM): OK to jump in? Got any words of wisdom about vertical portals?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:40 AM): This is what I call Business Reality and it happens a lot. Good question. Look, we live in a world where there are all kinds of realities we simply have to maneuver around. Very often, I get clients with horrible names, but they've sunk a lot of money into them and don't want to abandon them.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:40 AM): Some have awful logos that are printed on 10,000 coffee cups. Fine. You just work with those to find a way to link them properly.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:40 AM): Meehna: Try creativepro.com, freeagent.com and maybe even paladinstaff.com (potential job search).

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:41 AM): You're next, JoAnna. And I do.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:41 AM): Thanks, Del. Appreciate the help.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:42 AM): This happened to me with RE/MAX. They had a bad logo, mediocre name and no brand message. They had to keep the logo and the name, but I built them a strong strategy in spite of that, and made the name link back in a way that made sense. There was nothing I could do about the balloon logo, however.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:43 AM): Do you cover in the book how you built the brand? Or can you go into that a bit?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:43 AM): I can't express enough here how important it is to set your expectation levels properly. You can only do what you can do, nothing more. that's why I told Katsuey not to go for global domination right out of the box. Set your expectation level to a reasonable level and then grow from there once you achieve it.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:44 AM): You bet it's in the book. Too long to go into here.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:44 AM): Now what about those vertical portals JoAnna?

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:44 AM): I've been approached to design two websites: swimming pools and bridge players

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:45 AM): I'm wondering how to best brand them, since they rely on other people's brands to help them get going.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:46 AM): Seems to me that the big question (as with all vertical portals) is why would someone go to a vertical portal if they can go to Yahoo or a general portal? My guess is that both your clients don't take that end user's query into account.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:47 AM): the pool one is somewhat supported by a pool mfgr. the bridge one is wholly supported by a very VERY popular bridge player. (not omar!)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:47 AM): A successful vertical portal is built in much the same way as a successful franchise operation. You have to express to everyone that you're helping all of them build their businesses and the category as a whole. It takes a lot of expertise in messaging the right concepts to the right people.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:48 AM): I'm thinking that those endorsements would be effective... and the pool one is being created

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:48 AM): It's like dynamite: done properly it can move mountains. If you're not careful, you could blow your legs off.

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:48 AM): What is a vertical portal, as opposed to a horizontal portal?

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:48 AM): ...for pool mfgr's who don't have any online presence at all.

Scott (cosimo.net) (1/22/2001 9:49 AM): Fanaticism - I'd much rather go to a vert portal than to yahoo to get info. More targeted. Now, how to find that vert portal is another issue.

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:49 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:50 AM): JoAnna, this is waaaaaaay more than throwing together some HTML. This is launching branded programs for at least three tiers: The portal owners, the portal listings, the portal end users. Scott also has a valid point, but that comes later after these three are built in a way where one promotes the others.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:50 AM): The concept behind the pool one is that future pool owners want to do a LOT of research, and the yellow pages won't cut it any more...

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:50 AM): so many more people are turning to the internet first (aren't they?)

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:51 AM): Frederick: A vertical portal focuses on a specific industry or segment or even a set of industries with a unifying structure.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:51 AM): There's more to a SUCCESSFUL portal than end users, JoAnna. Just ask any of them that have failed -- Dr. Koop is one that I targeted in the book -- and that was before their stock plummeted.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:51 AM): Joanna, I do.

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:52 AM): Del, you're a great teaching assistant!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:52 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING) Jo Anna, not true, really. The vast majority of the consuming public is still doing business the old fashioned way. This web stuff is old hat to us, but we're barely 5%.

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:53 AM): I worked for a vertical portal...one big issue you will run into is "competing" with your own clients (i.e. portal listings) for listing in search engines and marketing in general. Here's the issue: Why would someone want to pay for a portal listing if they can get their own site listed at Yahoo etc. The only reason portals "really" exist is because companies still don't know how to effectively promote themselves online...on the other hand...centralized data is good if effective for all parties...very tough to get though

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:53 AM): Nevertheless, the time to build these things is now.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:53 AM): Meehna: Thanks. :*)

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:53 AM): Meehna, you're young and technosavvy, and this is not usually the demographic for pool owners.

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:53 AM): Del, Another inappropriate name! I call them Subject-specific portals - lie my scuba diving portal and my hometown portal, and my small business portal.

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:54 AM): I worked for a vertical portal...one big issue you will run into is "competing" with your own clients (i.e. portal listings) for listing in search engines and marketing in general. Here's the issue: Why would someone want to pay for a portal listing if they can get their own site listed at Yahoo etc. The only reason portals "really" exist is because companies still don't know how to effectively promote themselves online...on the other hand...centralized data is good if effective for all parties...very tough to get though

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:54 AM): Dead ass on Nathan! My point exactly. If the portal offers no added value -- real business value -- it becomes more of a hindrance than an asset!

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:54 AM): Rob (anyone!) can you tell me where I can find some stats comparing the different types of advertising? (yellow pages, radio, newspapers...)

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:55 AM): Frederick: Vertical Portals is not the name _I_ came up with, just what everyone calls it.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:55 AM): That's why you have to build branded programs that create and deliver added values beyond mere listings and links.

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:55 AM): I wasn't blaming you, Del.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:55 AM): Joanna: Advertising Age?

Frederick (1/22/2001 9:56 AM): Absolutely, Rob. I can go into a whole spiel about that!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:56 AM): have you tried http://wallpost.com/, http://www.deepcanyon.com, http://www.nua.ie/surveys/, http://www.emarketer.com?

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:56 AM): See, that's where I've got the point for these: bridge players and hole diggers don't have the time/resources/energy/inclination to create & publicize their own websites. That's where my clients have determined there's a need, and they want to use their

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:57 AM): the vert.port. I worked for created web application software...that was the value added...however...still ran into problems because companies with good I.T. could build their own...ultimately the problem is you want more traffic and more traffic...when it's dries up...you're dead

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:58 AM): JoAnna, they may have a need, but what they need is a budget! It's not as easy as throwing up a link page. Not if you want it to be profitable.

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 9:58 AM): GREAT suggestions. I'll try them all. Anyone who's interested, they're http://www.BridgeWinner.com and http://www.YourPoolPro.com

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:58 AM): Nathan, you have a very clear vision there.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Meehna (1/22/2001 9:59 AM): Who is this mystery Nathan?

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 9:59 AM): I read somewhere: "Sometimes when a niche hasn't been exploited, there's a reason. Maybe it HAS already been tested and failed. Perhaps too small of an audience. Perhaps too little interest."

Nathan (1/22/2001 9:59 AM): let's take a page from Jakob Nielsen (www.useit.com) - Internet users have goals - if you're site doesn't match a user's goals - you are dead - I mean we all surf that way - you know within half a second whether or not that site fits what's you're looking for - having a portal doesn't mean you've helped that user find what they are looking for

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 9:59 AM): Yes, but we're not gonna let THAT stop us, are we????

Scott (cosimo.net) (1/22/2001 10:00 AM): For example, Like having a golf site that let's you reserve a tee time, pay your greens fees, etc... Added value for all.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 10:00 AM): Which is why Jakob and I get along so well. I maintain that users go on to the web ALREADY having been sold -- they're just looking for the solution to their problem.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): Okay, folks, gotta run. But feel free to network as long as you like. I'll see you online!

Nathan (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): wanna good example of vertical portals killing each other - look for a main hotel and you'll find 10 or so sites trying to get the same customer

Patti_AppleCountryWebDesign (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): cya Rob

JoAnna@OnTargetDesign.com (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): Rob, that's brilliant. Thanks, as usual, for your advice!

Scott (cosimo.net) (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): Later Rob

Meehna (1/22/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob! This is the one standing "date" I always keep.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 10:02 AM): The nice thing about this Monday morning ritual is that I can ignore incoming calls. :-)

Meehna (1/22/2001 10:02 AM): This is fun and I feel like we're working.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 10:02 AM): ...and feel as though I'm still doing something constructive.

Meehna (1/22/2001 10:03 AM): Absolutely. I'm grateful to all the folks that so generously give their knowledge and advice. I'm a tyro looking for great mentors.

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 10:04 AM): Rob is also a great sounding board. If you have an idea, he'll work you through it to see if you asked yourself the right questions...

Del (LoanFuel.com) (1/22/2001 10:04 AM): And others in here will offer their input. Nothing like communicating with peers to get your juices flowing.