RobFrankel (2/1/99 8:59 AM): It's February!!! And I've had my ocffee!!!

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:00 AM): Probably Starbucks

Jacob (2/1/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:00 AM): Oops. Make that "coffee"

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:01 AM): Morning Everyone

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:01 AM): So...who's on first? (No Abbot & Costello jokes, please)

Jacob (2/1/99 9:01 AM): Haven't been here in a while, hope everything is as great as I remember it!

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:02 AM): I believe Sher hasn't been here before. Care to start?

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:03 AM): morning Dave

not sure how this works (2/1/99 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

not sure how this works (2/1/99 9:04 AM): not sure how this works

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:04 AM): Hi, Muhammad ... and All

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:04 AM): Speaking of morning coffee, we're up to Five participants in our First FrankelBee face-to-face in Filadelphia

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:05 AM): Wow the largest assemblage of FrankelBees ever! Mountains will crumble

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:06 AM): Nah, according to some, that won't happen until January

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:06 AM): Sher, I just found out that you're in the travel biz. I'll respond in more detail to you by email.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:07 AM): Good morning :)

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:07 AM): Good morning :)

not sure how this works (2/1/99 9:07 AM): guess you got my e-mail

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:07 AM): January eh?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:08 AM): Sher, log off and sign back on. Your comment got tweaked by the server.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:09 AM): Israel is really bracing itself for the Y2K travel ... double-edged sword: already tourism is doubling, but there are also some fruitloops that are causing some concern

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:09 AM): Michelle! What can I do for you this morning?

Jacob (2/1/99 9:09 AM): David, I was interviewed recently on Israeli radio about the obsession over Y2K in Israel

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:10 AM): There you go, Sher. Now just type in your question and hit the "talk" button

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:10 AM): Nothing wrong with being religious, but I seriously doubt the world is going to end.

Sher (2/1/99 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:11 AM): cool ... I'm already resigned that our income will drop to zero. Even though our machines may be ready, what advertiser is going to pay when no one can get to our servers?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:11 AM): Re: I don't take it too seriously. The main effect of Y2K will be the media frenzy that hits when one tiny government computer farts.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:11 AM): OK... I think I'm figuring this out..

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:12 AM): You're doing fine, Michelle. Ask away...

Bruce (2/1/99 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:13 AM): It will be line Loma Preita- If you believed the media the entire bay area was burning

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:13 AM): I think income will drop but not to zero, remember its a problem that we know how to fix

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:13 AM): Greetings, Bruce. What can I do for you this morning?

Sher (2/1/99 9:13 AM): Is there any way to start an advertising campaign on a limited budget, perhaps radio?

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:13 AM): true, the media & the fruitloops (can anyone distinguish the two? ;-) don't help the problem, but I do take it seriously.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:14 AM): Depends on how much you've got, Sher. Radio can be very expensive. What kind of biz do you have?

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:15 AM): Yes, "we" have had the ability to fix it since before it was started, but that doesn't help all of the embedded processors in the power grid ... Look how long it took to recover from a simple (albeit strategically placed) short in California

Bruce (2/1/99 9:15 AM): Just new around here, Rob. Waiting to see some discussion on marketing

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:15 AM): Also, remember that this is a publicly archived forum, so anything you say here will be posted for others to read...

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:15 AM): Thanks Rob..I publish a newsletter for guests seeking radio interviews.. and am finally writing my business plan.. (backwards, I know!)

Sher (2/1/99 9:15 AM): perhaps it would be better if I speak with you off-line

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:16 AM): Sher, unless your budget is at least six figures, forget mass media...unless you talk to someone like Michelle!

Bruce (2/1/99 9:16 AM): Sher have you considered "talk radio"

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:16 AM): Sher is your budget under or over six figures?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:17 AM): Bruce, did we just post your talk radio note on FrankelBiz?

Bruce (2/1/99 9:18 AM): No that where I got the idea though

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:18 AM): Talk radio is one of the best ways to advertise yourself.. and.. it's typically free

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:19 AM): If you have a low budget, you have to approach things from a guerrilla point of view. In this case, talk radio really does work.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:19 AM): And Michelle is right. People don't realize how hard it is to find good interview guests. I co-host a syndicated radio show and that's our biggest problem.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:19 AM): Sher.. what are you wanting to advertise?

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:20 AM): A side benefit I found from a radio interview done over the 'Net (which was done via the FB list, btw) is that the archived content is a great addition to your website (see http://Freedback.com/advanced/ )

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:20 AM): Rob? Are you subscribed to my newsletter? It's free to hosts and producers

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 9:21 AM): Michelle, we should talk later (lee@adgconsulting.com)

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:22 AM): So the real problem is PRESENTING your stuff in a way that's more interesting and more credible than the rest of the amateurs out there.

Bruce (2/1/99 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:23 AM): sounds great Muhammad. Mine is banks@websurf.net My website is at www.PublicityCity.com

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:23 AM): No Michelle, I'm not, but send me an email on it.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:25 AM): Anyway, the #1 problem we have with potential guests is their flakiness. They LOOK like they're not serious.

Carole (2/1/99 9:25 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:26 AM): So the people who are punctual, do their follow up and have clean materials always get on the air.

Carole (2/1/99 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:26 AM): You are exactly right Rob.. the hardest thing for guests to remember is that the host is looking to entertain or inform an audience.. NOT sell a product for the guest. (although, most hosts enjoy helping a great guest achieve success)

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:26 AM): So you're saying, Rob, that they have a face that was made for radio? :-)

Steve (2/1/99 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

Carole (2/1/99 9:26 AM): How does someone present themselves, to be chosen as a guest on a talk radio show?

Sher (2/1/99 9:26 AM): I was answering a phone, answer to Rob is definitely under 6 figures and to Michelle, Secluded Villas around the world for Intimate Getaways

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:27 AM): Sher, your service is perfect for the web. Concentrate on that and go guerrilla for offline.

Sher (2/1/99 9:28 AM): What constitutes guerrilla for offline?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:28 AM): Well, Michelle, that's the art. I always advise clients to talk about their INDUSTRY. The host usually takes it from there and uses YOUR biz as the illustration.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:28 AM): I'm sure Michelle can jump in here, but I'll tell you that 99% of talk shows rely on phone contact. You call them.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:28 AM): The GreatGuests Newsletter (tm) is a one way Carole :) Of course, there are others.. press releases is the most common.. although many producers are overwhelmed by the volume they receive

Eric (2/1/99 9:29 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:29 AM): Sher, offline guerilla means trading your services or product, or adding value to someone else to get them to promote you.

scottm cosimo.net (2/1/99 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:30 AM): For example, Sher, arranging to have one of your getaways give three days as a prize might get you into a contest situation for someone else's promotion.

Steve (2/1/99 9:30 AM): Does anyone have any experience with companies that offer to produce infomercials and take a percentage of sales?

Carole (2/1/99 9:30 AM): Thanks, I appreciate the resource. Did the group touch on cost of radio ads already?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:31 AM): Yeah, Steve, they're called "pirates". Stay away from them unless you was 3% of nothing...

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:31 AM): No, Carole, but radio ads -- if they're on any kind of decent programming, are usually at least $250 and up per spot.

Steve (2/1/99 9:32 AM): Thanks Rob, I thought so.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:32 AM): Steve, I work with one guy locally that might be willing to consider that; contact me off-chat: david@Freedback.com

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:32 AM): Sorry, Steve, that was "unless you want 3% of nothing...."

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Steve (2/1/99 9:32 AM): An offer I can't refuse...

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:32 AM): Now all that having been said about mass media, you should be aware that you Can buy TV and radio for as little as $50 per spot.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:33 AM): When contacting a radio program, either by phone or by press release, the KEY thing to express is what you can provide to the audience.. the fastest way I know to turn-off a radio producer is to say "Hi, I have a book or product I'd like to promote on your show"

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:33 AM): The problems are these: 1. You have to produce a commercial ($$$) and 2. When you buy those spots, they're on a "space available" basis, so only the most impulsive stuff works.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:33 AM): true, but I often wonder if the pricing is fair (i.e., is CPM actually higher at 3am?)

Sher (2/1/99 9:33 AM): ok, how

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:34 AM): What new advertisers forget is that it's not enough to advertise once or twice. An effective campaign relies on frequency.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:35 AM): They have to see it over and over and over again...

Steve (2/1/99 9:35 AM): Has anyone tried the recent FrankelBee offer for the radio talk show listing? I missed the first part of this discussion.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:36 AM): And, the product has to fit the medium. Broad reaching media like TV and Radio do best with broad appeal products.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:36 AM): that was my offer. any questions?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:36 AM): It just posted last night, Steve.

Eric (2/1/99 9:36 AM): (Sorry for the long post....my first time here). I have an idea I'd like to have everyone comment on. Many people are starting to publish e-newsletters these days. they all want advertisers. All of us want to advertise. Would it be valuable for me to offer a service, similar to goto.com, whereby folks came to a central clearinghouse and BID for that advertising space and the e-newsletters were arranged by category?

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:36 AM): Sher.. other than Web promotion.. have you submitted press releases about your service to the travel editors at newspapers across the country?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:37 AM): Also, Sher, Paul Hrupin runs a cheap "fax it to a zillion press people" service.

Sher (2/1/99 9:37 AM): no, that's a great idea, I'd love to know more about how to do that

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:38 AM): Eric, are you talking about a kind of "list of Lists"?

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:39 AM): Sher, contact me off chat at banks@websurf.net .. I have some ideas for you

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:39 AM): But do be prepared. The biggest mistake my clients make is doing too much chest-beating about their own product. It's true that the more interesting you can make their show, the better you'll do.

Eric (2/1/99 9:39 AM): No, I know there was an e-zine center posting. I'm talking about a site that actually brokered the ad space by letting you bid for the space on the e-newsletters.

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:40 AM): Is that like AdAuction?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:40 AM): And the beauty of talk radio is that it carries a sort of "third party endorsement" which makes it more credible.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:40 AM): BTW -- heads up: We still have a spot of two available on tomorrow's taping of Netprofits Radio, complete with the audio on your site. And these are FREE. (last free week)

Sher (2/1/99 9:40 AM): should I have such a press release professionally written and where?

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:41 AM): Evelyn? I need to talk with you off chat.. when you have time... sent you an email last night.

Eric (2/1/99 9:41 AM): I haven't seen ad auction, but I would want this to be devoted strictly to e-newsletters

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:41 AM): Sher, I think what you need is a few hours with a real pro to TEACH you how to do this stuff. You can do a lot of this yourself. Save your money for PLACING the press release. That's where you need help.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:41 AM): Sher, you can have them written, which if you've not done it before may be the way to go. There are a few copywriters on the list. I am one, any others here?

Sher (2/1/99 9:41 AM): how do I find Paul Hrupin's service?

Sher (2/1/99 9:43 AM): Do you get onto talk radio the same way?

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:43 AM): Sher, yes.. and I can help with that.. or can recommend many others..

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:43 AM): Michelle, got your e. will answer it shortly.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:44 AM): Hey, Ev! Didn't recognize u with the cryptic handle :-)

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:44 AM): Paul's website is at www.Imediafax.com He has a terrific service and great prices

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:44 AM): Boy, I seem to be the QUEEN of cryptic handles!

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:45 AM): I should be more clear, will remember that in the future.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:45 AM): Eric, I don't know about outright auction, (it's a great idea), but I know that my most active advertisers on Freedback.com are placing HTML subscription forms ... it's working out real well.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 9:45 AM): Thanks Evelyn... your offer last night sparked a number of questions

Eric (2/1/99 9:46 AM): Thanks, Dave.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:46 AM): (and the market is balancing itself as I reach 100% of inventory; I'll have to start raising my prices)

Steve (2/1/99 9:46 AM): Has anyone tried the recent FrankelBee offer for the radio talk show listing? I missed the first part of this discussion.

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:46 AM): Oops, it's actually Paul Krupin. I will try to forward his e-mail to you off chat...

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:46 AM): Sher, if you want a talk radio spot, let me know. (not to suggest you should not follow ALL offers!)

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:46 AM): Hey, thanks Michelle! I was trying to find Paul's URL. Sher, be sure to mention you're a FrankelBee so you get a discount!

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:47 AM): Steve, I can explain all that. e mail me at elb@netprofitsradio.com

Sher (2/1/99 9:47 AM): great! and now I know what a FrankelBee is too!

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:48 AM): Eric, what's your revenue model for your project?

Eric (2/1/99 9:49 AM): My revenue model is to take a small commission for brokering the space.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:50 AM): what, Eric, for the auction, or for the subscriptions, or both?

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:51 AM): (or am I totally off-base here?)

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:51 AM): I can tell you that while the folks at GOTO.COM are fabulous, that operation is very difficult to administer...and they have millions behind them. (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:52 AM): assume you are off base, David. Beat the crowd (KIDDING!!!)

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:52 AM): Rob, What do you mean about GoTo.com

Eric (2/1/99 9:53 AM): Let's say you have 10 "spaces" you want to market you your "daily" e-newsletter. My idea is to have an auction site where potential advertisers could bid for those 10 spaces. I would take commission off the ad fees. (You guys are doing what I wanted......helping me design it).

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:53 AM): Dave, their model is great, but it's a technical and administrative bear to handle. They do have great customer service, though.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:54 AM): Rob, do those click throughs actually results in $$?

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:54 AM): ok, Ev. Well, in case Eric (or anyone else here) was thinking of brokering ad space, I'm always up for the idea. I offer a 20% sales commission to anyone that can help me sell my ad space. You can make $1k/mo, or more. See http://Freedback.com/ad/?frankel

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:54 AM): Also, Eric, what about differing models of rates structure? FrankelBiz, for example, does NOT charge by CPM...

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:54 AM): Yes, Evelyn, they do. But you have to be smart about using that service.

Eric (2/1/99 9:54 AM): Yes, good idea.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:55 AM): Can you elaborate, Rob?

Sher (2/1/99 9:55 AM): anyone think there's a market on this crowded planet for private getaways with breathtaking views, private pools and beaches with the one you love for any state of dress or activity

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:55 AM): David, I have a special deal I will be calling you about this month.

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:56 AM): WOW, only 20% most I talk to want 50%

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:56 AM): Sher, when I did work for Jane Seymour, she was very into it and I know that market. It's very ripe.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:56 AM): Sher, does a bear . . . .

Steve (2/1/99 9:56 AM): Sher, I can be ready in an hour.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:56 AM): If the price is right and reservations easy, YES!

RobFrankel (2/1/99 9:56 AM): Yes, Evelyn. I have branding issues with GOTO.COM. I think they're a good service, but one that's used by the web elite.

Sher (2/1/99 9:57 AM): that

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:57 AM): of course, Sher! I listen to some Seattle stations via RealAudio ... I love the descriptions that the getaways present, and am tempted to call when they say, "only two hours away from town", until I remember that I'm 3,000 miles from Seattle. :-)

Sher (2/1/99 9:57 AM): that's the kind of response I love to hear

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 9:57 AM): Sher, What do you mean - getaways

Sher (2/1/99 9:58 AM): usually a week at a time in a private secluded villa

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 9:58 AM): "getaways", from the Latin (who loved to get away from all of that Latin talk)

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 9:59 AM): Sorry, Rob. You lost me. What is the stopper here?

Sher (2/1/99 9:59 AM): David, is what you heard the same thing marketed seductively or targeted toward families etc?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 10:00 AM): Entered the room.

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 10:00 AM): web elite?

RobFrankel (2/1/99 10:01 AM): Yikes! An Hour gone by so soon??? Hey, I've got to run, but you guys are free to stick around! Watch for more great news on the list! See you online!

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 10:01 AM): I wouldn't say outright seductively, but they do drop enough hints about the scenery, the beautiful colors, almost feeding the guys the lines to use (sorry, ladies; I know that's real sexist)

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 10:01 AM): they do mention things like, "no phones, no kids", so I guess that they are targeting towards families ...

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 10:01 AM): Sher, Are you marketing this getaway

Sher (2/1/99 10:02 AM): yes, my web site is almost complete

Bruce (2/1/99 10:02 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 10:03 AM): one downside to radio is that, while there is targeting, obviously, it isn't nearly as tightly-targeted as some other media ... but sometimes that's ok

Ev@n2u (2/1/99 10:03 AM): I gotta go too. Those of you who would like to know more about the NetProfits Radio offer, e me at elb@netprofitsradio.com remember, I still have two free slots left this week.

Michelle - Maxwell Media (2/1/99 10:03 AM): I have to run too.. Evelyn, Sher, Muhammad: I look forward to hearing from you.. my email address again is banks@websurf.net Michelle Banks, publisher of The GreatGuests Newsletter(tm)

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 10:04 AM): What is the name/vision. I was going to seek advertisers of getaway weekends for LovePoetry

Bruce (2/1/99 10:04 AM): Thanks Rob. My first but not last time here. I await my commission from Ev for reminding you of her offer and dibs on the first give-a-way from Sher

Sher (2/1/99 10:05 AM): the name is Intimate Getaways.com but don't visit the site now, it was done by the site designer from hell, new one is much sharper

Muhammad(www.adgconsulting.com) (2/1/99 10:06 AM): C-ya Dave, David, Michelle et, all. Until next time......

Sher (2/1/99 10:06 AM): Dave, email me at scj621@aol.com

Dave- LovePoetry.com (2/1/99 10:06 AM): I encourage you to visit www.lovepoetry.com

David Beroff (Freedback.com) (2/1/99 10:06 AM): Yeah, I thought of you, Dave, when the thread came in here.

Sher (2/1/99 10:07 AM): gotta go but would like to speak with Rob and Michelle too