Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic February 5, 2001

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:02 AM): No Rob today, but if anyone wants to talk about branding, positioning, CRM or anything else...I'm here. :-)

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:02 AM): Morning Meehna.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:03 AM): Okay, Del. I always need a lesson. What's CRM?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:03 AM): Customer/Consumer Relationship Management

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:03 AM): Morning Del and Meehna

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:04 AM): Hey Marshall. I think we can run the show without the dictator this morning.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:04 AM): In a nutshell, it encompasses a businesses directive on handling interaction with it's client base.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:04 AM): Morning Marshal. How's your Monday starting off?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:04 AM): Sounds good. Is he in Hawaii?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:04 AM): Good thanks for asking. How about yours?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:05 AM): How do you define that CRM? Is it something that's decided in the branding stages?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:05 AM): Not bad...had some nice orders come in over the weekend and this morning. will work on them later. :-)

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:05 AM): I think Rob is in Hawaii, but not sure.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:06 AM): Ah orders are always a welcome site on Monday!

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:06 AM): In RF's eyes, yes...How you are perceived, even in the smallest details, encompasses your brand.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:07 AM): Marshal: Yep. Big or small. I can live with it. (Though the larger orders give bigger grins.)

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:07 AM): When you're branding your site, how much demographic info do you need or "psychographic" as Rob calls it?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:08 AM): My site, personally, isn't branded strongly. There's work to do and messages to "transmit". But I'm lazy. I end up helping more people and devoting more times to others than myself. :-)

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:09 AM): I think you inherently need to know who your consumer is. What drives them. What needs are being unfulfilled.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:09 AM): How do one know if a site is branded strongly?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:09 AM): Well, I guess that's my question. I'm branding people's sites, but want to know the psychographic. I guess that can come from the niche the client want to cover.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:11 AM): Disc people: A site is branded strongly if it tells who are, visually all the way down to the text and it's very clear once someone gets to your site why they're there and what you can do for them. They're already looking for your service. They got there. Now you have to keep them their and ultimately get the sale within your site, using it as a tool. Make sense? Del, you agree?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:12 AM): I suppose one key way to look at things is to examine the competitor's sites. (That of your client's niche.) Find the compelling reasons on the site that would have a potential consumer stay. What would make them/you come back. Do you, even if you don't know anything about the business, feel more comfortable with the company?...If you needed their services, could you entrust them with your money?

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:12 AM): I am going to launch a profile assessment site called, does it have brand appeal just from the domain name itself?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:13 AM): Also, one step further, you have to make it easy for your consumer to want to do business with you. Easy navigable site, etc.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:14 AM): Disc People: I think you're looking at it a little from the inside out. Your brand comes before everything else. What you do from marketing, to advertising, to logo, to even your URL spins off your brand.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:15 AM): For example: a friend of mine came to me because his site was losing business. They own "" Great URL, right? IF YOU'RE IN ACCUPUNCTURE!! However they were using that URL to redirect people to their health and herb sites. In other words pissing people off by misleading them. A brand gains trust and hopefully loyalty.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:15 AM): A brand, in my mind, is an outward projection of everything your business is, down to the smallest email.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:16 AM): Meehna: So in other words, the brand is the identity you give the site? I have marketing plan layout but I am just wonder what constitute a strong brand...

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:17 AM): Well, that's a long involved process where I would have to look at the materials. You can contact me offline if you want to discuss further. I'd be happy to give my input.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:17 AM): DISC: Try the reverse: Of your existing competitors, why do they have weak brands?

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:18 AM): I have debate with my partner, she want to put her name on the website but I object to it. Reason? I want to brand a business, not a person. The organization has to work with or without her presence. IMHO

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:18 AM): And to answer your question, the brand is NOT! I repeat not! your brand! You will remember a URL of a brand that you like even if it doesn't speak directly to what they're selling. Think It means books first doesn't it? But it isn't See the difference.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:19 AM): So, in your opinion, is better than

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:19 AM): Oops I meant the logo and the URL <G>...brain glitch<G>

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:20 AM): I know all their weakness. They are too technical, so to speak...

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:21 AM): Disc: I can't judge that without sitting down and evaluating your business. If Carol is a known entity in this world, then she has awareness and it might be okay. Can't tell without further evaluating your business. Like I said, happy to discuss further in detail off line. It's too hard to evaluate a business with just bits and pieces.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:22 AM): Technobabble can be good if it's the norm for everyday communication in that market, but the www isn't brochureware anymore.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:23 AM): Del: What do you mean by technobabble?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:23 AM): I know what it means :) But in that example...

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:24 AM): Communication language associated with the industry (originally meant for computer "geek" speak).

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:24 AM): (Off Topic) Did anyone else notice the year is 101 in all the posts?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:25 AM): Not until you mentioned it.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:25 AM): Is it true that I can call the profile assessment site like

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:25 AM): For instance, my user base doesn't want to know that we print at 2540 DPI on 13pt cover stock with both aqueous and ultra-violet coating. They want to know that we print with "made in the USA" ultra-thick paper stock in vibrant colors and coated to resist fading and increase durability.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:26 AM): Marshal: What is the hottest thing in search engine? Does door way page still work?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:26 AM): Disc: You can ultimately call the site anything you want. It sounds like you're a little shaky on how to position and brand this baby.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:26 AM): Disc: They can if you format them correctly.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:27 AM): Content is still king. The more content related to your subject the better.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:27 AM): Meehna: You hit my nervous button. Ouch!

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:27 AM): Maybe the 101 is Rob's sneaky way of showing that this chat without him is Frankel Chat 101 without him. ß joke: hope you're laughing, Rob <G>

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:28 AM): Marshal: Among meta tag and door way, which is more effective?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:29 AM): Disc: That doesn't mean you don't have a fantastic business, but you can't market from the inside, as Rob says. I know it sounds like I'm selling myself (perhaps I am :), but get someone even if it's not me to look at your stuff and come up with a solid branding plan. As Rob says, the person who markets and brands their own site is an "idiot" or something along those line.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:29 AM): Disc: You need to use both. Make sure everything in your meta's is supported by text on the page.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:29 AM): Recommendation: Inktomi $20 for the initial page.

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:30 AM): Meenha, why can you not market and brand your business yourself?

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:30 AM): There are so many tricks in ranking high in search engines, I just don't know which one is still effective. Are you a SEO Marshal?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:30 AM): Del: I also HIGHLY recommend getting into Yahoo and LookSmart (if you are not already)

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:30 AM): Well worth the $199 fees.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:31 AM): Marshall: you're a pro in this area I know nothing about. Can you please explain Meta and text?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:32 AM): Frederick: Because you're from the inside thinking about the business from your perspective. You need someone from the outside to see it from a consumer perspective: W

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:32 AM): Marshal: I'm trying to get the folks at Yahoo! to switch my listing in the business section from my old name to the new, but they're slacking...And I decided against LookSmart as I discovered that my listing still comes up within the top 10 via inktomi's inclusion on their pages.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:32 AM): Meehna: Meta are HTML tags that go in the head of your web page. And by text I mean plain (no graphic) text on your web pages.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:33 AM): Marshal: Thanks

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:33 AM): Meenha, I don't buy that, sorry. What you are saying is that every small business (who cannot afford to hire a branding specialist) is going to fail at branding.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:33 AM): Del: Good luck getting Yahoo! to switch. You might be better off paying for a new listings for your domain name.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:34 AM): Marshal: probably will. At least I have print ads generating 90% of my business.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:34 AM): Del: LookSmart powers too many other major player to discount. MSN and Iwon just to name a few

Cathy (2/5/2001 9:34 AM): Entered the room.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:35 AM): No. I'm saying your branding that your chances at failing are much higher. You really need an outside party to maximize your brand. It's impossible to get outside your head -- from your business -- and think like your consumer. That's what a branding expert does.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:36 AM): Frederick: You can probably do a survey on your client and see how they think of you. My 2 cents.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:36 AM): Another Tip: Search and see if your terms are cheap. The #1 and #2 spots get listed on lots of other search engines.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:36 AM): Marshal: I understand what your saying, but I think you're missing my point. Via Inktomi, I get listed in their "database"...Looksmart and all it's partners use Inktomi as well. I come up at #4 at without having paid LookSmart's fee.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:37 AM): Isn't bankrupt and out of business?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:37 AM): Meehna: Not the last time I checked.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:37 AM): is going out, Maybe that is who you are thinking of...

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:37 AM): Meehna: You're thinking

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:37 AM): Marshal: You should have a Newsletter to let people like me subscribe to so that I know what is going on in the search engine business. It won't hurt.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:38 AM): Disc and Frederick: Sure you can survey your clients, but they're already pretty loyal, right? What about all those new clients who are passing you up because they aren't seeing what attracts them when they hit your site?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:38 AM): Eisner decided it was losing too much money and is cutting it loose.

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:38 AM): Hmm. It seems to me, from a very small business perspective, that if you cannot brand yourself, or are likely to fail, branding is a non-starter for very small businesses. That's not right!. Branding is needed in the small business field and should be possible to do it oneself.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:38 AM): Are you sure? Isn't GoTo Disney or am I confusing?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:38 AM): Meehna: You are thinking of they are Disney.

Cathy (2/5/2001 9:39 AM): that's

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:39 AM): DISC: Good idea. It is something that I have been thinking about lately.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:39 AM): Ahhh... got it.. Sorry (tail between legs)

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:39 AM): Marshall: I'd sure sign up!

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:40 AM): Well I will definitely keep it in mind!

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:40 AM): Ok. Let me put this another way. If branding is likely to fail, what can a very small business do to achieve the same ends - recognition in the target market?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:40 AM): Frederick: Difference of opinion. Sure you can start up and if you're small and can't afford, get up and going. When you can, it's great to increase your user base and sales. God Bless.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:40 AM): I know another SEO who send the its newsletter subscriber the top 500 searched words. You can probably guess what the first word is.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:41 AM): Distinguish yourself from your competitors. Find a compelling reason why you are the ONLY answer to your target client's particular problems. Education your consumer. There's loads you can do.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:42 AM): Meehna: Can I say that a brand is what make your customers want to buy your product than your competitors?

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:42 AM): Del, Isn't THAT branding, too?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:42 AM): I agree, Del. I'm a "do-it-yourselfer" too, but as Rob always says you're an expert in your field the brander is in hers?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:43 AM): Frederick: Practically everything you do touches on branding.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:43 AM): Disc: Yes, that's one component: why you are the ONLY solution to your consumer's problem.

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:43 AM): Good. I thought I was in the wrong chat room!

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:43 AM): Meehna: You talk Frankelish. ;-)

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:44 AM): Overall, it's too easy to play up the same things your competitors do (We're #1, we're customer focus drive, we blah blah blah). What do "I" get from working with your business?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:44 AM): I guess I've been logging on too much ;)

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:45 AM): Meehna: Naw. Rob's just got a good brand! ;-)

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:45 AM): Right on, Del! That's exactly it. Something I think I learned from you :)

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:46 AM): Marshall: you might be right. I'm a brand loyalist. Rob would be proud. But we're all hanging out, so what does that say about all of us ;)

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:46 AM): There's plenty of vendors that want my business..but every one of them says the same thing, "why we're so hot"...none of them really evoke a strong emotional response. (Well other than how fast I can dump the package in the garbage.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:46 AM): I guess focusing on you is the key to brand effectively.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:47 AM): Wrong! Focusing on them and why they should choose you. Flip your thinking around.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:47 AM): DISC: If you meant "you" as everyone else, yes.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:48 AM): Disc: Or did you mean me, the consumer?

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:48 AM): DEL: thanks for the clarification.

Frederick (2/5/2001 9:48 AM): These are all good points and necessary elements, but surely repetition is a major element, isn't it? Consistency and repetition?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:49 AM): Marshal: Just checked MSN. I come up #3.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:49 AM): DISC: no problem.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:50 AM): (10 MINUTE WARNING) Just kidding. I was told I was speaking Frankelish so I thought I'd continue just to be consistent.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:50 AM): Marshal: Did you brand your SEO? Meehna, go visit Marshal's website and give us your 2 cents. Please?!

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:50 AM): Del: Good! Is the term competitive?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:51 AM): Meehna: HA!

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:51 AM): DISC: I knew nothing about branding when I created the site. I still don't know a lot. (That's why I am here!)

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:51 AM): Disc: Are funning with me? Or are you serious?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:52 AM): Marsha: I've got 5 competitors, none of them offer the same things I do, though their offer is similar.

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:52 AM): Rob: You should thank me for the Frankelish term...

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:52 AM): A quick case study?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:52 AM): Disc: He owes you for that one!

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:53 AM): Okay, I'll take a look. Be back. momentarily. Okay with you, Marshal?

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:53 AM): I just wonder if Marshal's site has what brand expert called Brand Appeal...

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:53 AM): Meehna.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:54 AM): Meehna:Sure.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:54 AM): Del: I meant the term you used to find your site. Is it competitive?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:56 AM): Marshal: I'm not sure what you mean. It's the most common phrase that my prospect base uses (or I hope they use).

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:56 AM): Marshal: Is there any discount for FrankelBees?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:56 AM): Del: That is good!

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 9:56 AM): Marshal: Or are you thinking I should buy the phrase at heh.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:57 AM): DISC: Yes. No extra setup fees. Lower CPC.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:57 AM): Del: You bet! If you do not already have it.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 9:57 AM): Hi all, I'm back. Here's what I thought about Marshall's site on first glance:

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:57 AM): DISC: (Extra as in over $500)

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 9:58 AM): *Drum Roll*

DISC People (2/5/2001 9:59 AM): dong dong dong ...

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:00 AM): First off, I would recast the copy to lean more towards what you're offering the consumer. Then I would give an example, like you just did for us. You came up number two on your own service. That's showing us! Cool! Also, I would provide an 800 number if you can afford it or if not, list your business number. I know that when I don't know much about something, I want to ask questions. Nit-picking points: a little too much text and font size is hard to read. "Lost in the Crowd?" us here. You came up number two from your

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:02 AM): "Lost in the Crowd" isn't a specific enough tag. Where am I lost? What crowd? Also, I didn't know what "Dynamic and Graphic Oriented Sites are no Problem" meant. Hope this helps :)c and

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:02 AM): Marshal: Just an idea. Do up a picture of a fake site listing, say at position #1277 and then a NEW OPTIMIZED listing at say #2

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:03 AM): Meehna: So a good copy editor would help huh?

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:03 AM): Del: OOooOO I like!

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:03 AM): You know, "It isn't enough to just be ON the web, you have to be found."

DISC People (2/5/2001 10:03 AM): Del: A killer idea. I am curious on how that can be done. Marshal, you should give us a free clinic.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:03 AM): Copy editor is all a part of the branding. People don't think about putting the two together. I do all my own copywriting. I come from that background. But yes, a good copywriter would help.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:04 AM): Del: Agreed! Without a great SEO you're lost. Your site won't even reach the consumer.

DISC People (2/5/2001 10:04 AM): Are we going to call it quit?

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:04 AM): Your basic context can be something along the order of, "Each day, X new business sites go online hoping to capture a portion of internet sales described nightly on the evening news...."

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:04 AM): Meehna: I am a programmer so English is not my strong point. Unless you want to talk in "If Then's"

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:04 AM): Yeesh, I feel like I'm talking too much. I'll just sit back and listen till addressed. <G> Meehna sitting in corner and listening...<G>

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:05 AM): Thanks for the pointers!

DISC People (2/5/2001 10:05 AM): Marshal: It looks like the stage is yours.

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:06 AM): Marshal: You have a strongly-competitive market. Educate your consumer in every message. :-)

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:06 AM): I actually cut the text on the site in half about a month ago...

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:06 AM): They'll like learning AND it'll instill a basic level of trust...something that you can work from.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:07 AM): If any of you guys want to talk more or have a question, e-mail me at I'm happy to help where I can :)

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:07 AM): True. But my problem is when to stop teaching and start selling!

Del (Monday Morning Ritual) (2/5/2001 10:07 AM): I've got to run. Too many weekend callers to call back. See you all next Monday morning.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:08 AM): Del: Thanks again for your insight.

Marshal ( (2/5/2001 10:08 AM): Thanks again everyone!!

Frederick (2/5/2001 10:08 AM): I'm going to depart, too. Bye all

DISC People (2/5/2001 10:08 AM): Your email Marshal?

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:09 AM): Marshall: teaching is selling if you do it right. You're creating a loyalty so those folks when they're ready will come back.

Meehna (right there with you Del) (2/5/2001 10:10 AM): Everyone, have a great day and I think we did a great job of moderating ourselves. Rob will be proud!

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