Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic February 15, 1999

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 8:55 AM): Entered the room.

vip (2/15/99 8:56 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:56 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:56 AM): Morning, Louise! Did I drop the ball on you, or ... ?

vip (2/15/99 8:56 AM): hi, all

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 8:56 AM): I don't' think so? what do you mean? LOL

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:56 AM): hey, vip!

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:57 AM): (Rob prefers real names; you may want to try re-login in, vip.)

vip (2/15/99 8:57 AM): vip is my name rob

vip (2/15/99 8:58 AM): er, David

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:58 AM): The last time u & I were here, u had agreed to try our hosting .. your form didn't work (until you switched to ours , of course ;-) and I think your InterNIC contact info was incorrect, so I had no way of reaching you.)

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 8:59 AM): my email is

vip (2/15/99 8:59 AM): you talking to me David?

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:59 AM): What I mean, Vip, is that it is very useful for you to give your full name and some hint of what it is that you do.

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 8:59 AM): Hi all... is it just me, or is the window where people's names usually go not refreshing today?

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 8:59 AM): yeah I know, what a PITA that other form was, never working..

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 8:59 AM): Thanks, Louise!

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:00 AM): It hasn't worked in a long time, Ira. Hello!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:00 AM): Of course yours works beautifully :)

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Steve (2/15/99 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:01 AM): morning Chaz, Ira

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:01 AM): Greetings! I'm late!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:01 AM): this is great! Got hooked up with a cable modem, things load like lightning LOL

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 9:02 AM): It worked for me last week... anyway, just wondering...

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:03 AM): I know the "who's here" box is kinda funky, so I just open a new window using that frame and it seems to reload in that window...

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:03 AM): So, let's talk about "internal marketing" ... how to remind the troops (well, ok, spouse) that there is a long-term payoff for all of this work. :-)

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:04 AM): 7 or 8 of us took advantage of the free ad offer at my client's site:

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:04 AM): well we are starting to see the fruits of our labors

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:04 AM): David, the light at the end of the tunnel is a lot closer than it was 2 years ago...

vip (2/15/99 9:04 AM): you talking to me David?

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:05 AM): aah, that's better

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:05 AM): Vip. but brings you around today? Anything special that I can help with?

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:05 AM): David, some people won't believe until you "show them the money" LOL

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:05 AM): Thanks, Vip!

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:06 AM): I know, Louise, and the funny thing is that I *am* showing her the money (literally) ... Advertisers are starting to catch on big-time ... (sigh)

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:07 AM): ...or anyone else for that matter? Don't be shy, now.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:07 AM): Hey, Lynn! Welcome to the FrankelBiz group!

Don Schmidt (2/15/99 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:07 AM): hey David ... thanks for the invite ...

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 9:08 AM): So David, how much will be enough? is that the issue, or is it something other than money (how long you have to work to make it, for example..._

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:08 AM): Hey, Don! Two new FrankelBees in sixty seconds... not bad! Welcome aboard!

Steve (2/15/99 9:08 AM): Can I get an opinion of the value of the LinksExchange Program?

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:08 AM): Well, I am in the process (early) of designing a web site targeting UK Asians. The market here is young and what I ideally need to do is get sponsorships for various areas of the site (news, jobs, etc). It's really about developing the literature I guess.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:09 AM): Exactly what kind of opinion were you looking for Steve?

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:09 AM): Well, time is another factor, sure, but I think that she wants to see "steadiness", and right now it's necessarily "chunky". I think over time, with more advertisers, the overall cash flow will smooth out.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:10 AM): What can I help you with Vip?

Steve (2/15/99 9:10 AM): The best way to drive traffic to my site with a limited budget.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:10 AM): got kicked

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:10 AM): David, get ready for a lifetime of that. It's the entrepreneurial life. Feast or famine. So when you feast, save it for the famine times.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:11 AM): I agree with Rob

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:11 AM): Steve, Link Exchange is, IMHO, a waste of time. You're far better off putting in the hours to link and market on a targeted basis.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:12 AM): Steve: what's "limited" mean? Because I do that.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:12 AM): Agreed. I don't mind it as much, but she .... (sigh)

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:12 AM): he is absolutely right ..... but sometimes the famines far outweigh the feasts!

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:12 AM): The best way to approach publishing company (I have a few in mind) who do not have a web presence (and are not going to for the foreseeable future) and get them to see the light - i.e. sponsor my website or get them exposure by providing content? Sounds very naive, eh?

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:12 AM): Actually, LinkExchange does have some upsides. e.g., you can test banners to some degree

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:12 AM): Nah, Elly, the reason we're on the web to begin with is that it lets us weather the famine times better. Lower overhead...

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Dave Rosenheim( (2/15/99 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:13 AM): Elly-Lynn, what do you do?

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:13 AM): Vip: No, it's not naive.

Bruce (2/15/99 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:13 AM): Vip, what's the point of getting advertisers and sponsors who don't have web presences?

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 9:13 AM): I don't agree that entrepreneurial life has to be feast or famine. Not saying I have completely figured out how to achieve a steady, sustainable cash flow, but I'm not ready to assume it *has* to be like that, especially after the start up phase. Unless you are the type of person who gets bored after startup and moves right on to the next thing...

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:14 AM): Morning everyone

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:14 AM): You're wa-a-a-a-ay better off bringing in online sponsors, That way you make them look like heroes when you make their sites more productive.

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:14 AM): lower overhead Rob, ... but it can't ALL be done on the Web, ... feet have to hit the pavement too ... been an entrepreneur for over 10 years now ...

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:14 AM): Cheers Chaz, but seems across the coast business are very savvy about the net, inc. small businesses, not so in the UK

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:14 AM): I'm a web designer Louise ..

Steve (2/15/99 9:15 AM): Chaz, do you do target linking or something similar?

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:15 AM): Vip: why are you limiting yourself to the UK??

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:15 AM): Well, Elly, that may explain why I'm not a household name. In fact, I just got back form a rare weeklong trip, speaking and brokering deals. I don't get out enough...

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:15 AM): Rod, they do not have a web presence - something my consulting company can provide! but to sell the concept is the main thing - getting them ready, getting the UK Asian mindshare ...

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:16 AM): Steve: Yes, cross-links, cross-promotions, etc.

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:16 AM): Where I'm at Chaz - thought I should go for a target group as it were - sense/nonsense?

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:17 AM): Rod, er meant Rob!

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:17 AM): Vip: Why not a global Asian community?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:17 AM): You're going to have a hard row to hoe there with offline clients, because the payout to associate with you is a very long cycle. Much shorter (and easier sale) with onliners. You can always bring the offliners in later

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:18 AM): Look at the offliners as gravy. In fact, when your satisfied onliners succeed with you, they'll refer offliners to you.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:18 AM): Even online, I'm finding that the better advertisers also have a longer sales cycle... kinda makes sense

Steve (2/15/99 9:19 AM): Chaz, please e-mail me re: your

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:19 AM): Feel very passionate about the UK community - but who knows, eh?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:19 AM): Look, you're always going to have fast-paced clients and cold-call long cycles. That's why your brand is so important. It makes others want to call YOU. Makes the sale easier.

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:19 AM): Offline sponsors will not understand the net, and selling them on the benefits will be difficult......there is no site to send traffic to.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:20 AM): Steve: Will do.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:20 AM): Muhammad is dead on.

Tasha (2/15/99 9:20 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:20 AM): Agreed. I even had one guy shepherd an advertiser my way without me even knowing the intermediary.

Ira Pasternack (2/15/99 9:21 AM): I think focusing on UK has advantages, Vip, as long as you are providing services/info that is really only of interest to that niche... on a related note, I have another browser window open that just happened to have a banner ad linking to - looks like they are a global version of what you are talking about...

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:21 AM): Yes, Muhammad and I are trying to close on a client who wants to be online, but in some areas, still doesn't "get it".

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:22 AM): Anyway, Steve, Link Exchange hardly ever works. They sell the proposition to people who don't want to spend any money. But it rarely, if ever, works.

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:22 AM): that's an understatement.....but I think we can help me/close the deal

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:23 AM): You're much better off building a solid brand and then target listing and linking. Create programs that benefit the people you're interested in working with.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:23 AM): Vip: You may be passionate about the UK community, which is fine. But this is business - and there's a lot outside the UK for you.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:23 AM): It only costs you your time, and that's still not out-of-pocket cash.

Steve (2/15/99 9:23 AM): Thanks Rob.

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:24 AM): The problem with LE, is that if you get little traffic in the first place its not going to go up much, its a 2:1 ratio. So if you get 6 hits a day 3 banner impressions

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:24 AM): help him not me

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:24 AM): Education, getting potential customers on the web, getting companies to sponsor is key. Here, getting customers to understand what the web is difficult enough, forget the concepts of banner ads, clickthrus, impressions, etc.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:25 AM): Vip. you've got it backwards: Since the web is international anyway, everyone will find you. But you can brand yourself as the expert for the Asian UK community. You'll do much better that way.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:25 AM): Well, at least our program helps address "2:1"; we're 1:1, plus you get cash for clickthroughs:

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:25 AM): even with a great click through rate, the traffic to your site will be what 2% of half your current traffic.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:26 AM): Vip: Your audience can be worldwide and include Asians in the U.S. who *do* get what's possible on the web. You start away and work your way back home, so to speak.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:26 AM): If you do it that way, you'll get business from OUTSIDE the UK community, from people trying to REACH the Asian UK community...

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:26 AM): I think Chaz and I are saying the same thing.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:27 AM): Yeah, no matter *what* you do with a banner exchange, the CTR numbers are still such that you will *always* have to pay (in some fashion) for visitors

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:27 AM): Yup. We are. Create an Asian community - don't worry about borders.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:28 AM): Right, but brand yourself as the UK SPECIALIST and people will come to you for that service.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:29 AM): Vip - Is what Rob and I are saying getting through?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:29 AM): Simon and're awfully quiet today. Anything you'd like to ask?

Tasha (2/15/99 9:30 AM): Just listening for now..

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:31 AM): Okay, what about Simon? I just don't want you guys to get crowded out. We always want to hear from the new folks.

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:32 AM): Yes - I'll take that on board, cheers

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:33 AM): what do you do Louise?

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:34 AM): Vip - you contact Rob or me. The opportunities for you in creating an Asian community on the web are huge!

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:36 AM): I assume that Chaz will give you a great FrankelBiz rate on that....

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:37 AM): --- can email on that, but I will pester you two, cheers

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:37 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:38 AM): I hate modems

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:38 AM): Elly I am a toiletries and soap designer ( hey Rob, how is that for posh LOL)

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:39 AM): actually I make luxurious soaps and toiletries, and I market mostly online

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:39 AM): Vip - you do that! Mine's

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:40 AM): Muhammad - I hate modems, too. Except for the cable modem I use. I moved to where I live (in L.A.) to get it.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:40 AM): Louise, I used your site as a FrankelBee member in a meeting this week and it froze! Yikes!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:40 AM): hey Rob, I have a question

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:40 AM): Louise, ... might I 'liken' your product to "The Body Shop" type of product?

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:40 AM): yes, Elly, cept I make it all myself

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:41 AM): I'm moving soon too, can't wait for that cable modem!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:41 AM): Rob, it froze? on the Java cart pages, I am sure!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:41 AM): they aren't working well for me, although I sure like the look :(

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:42 AM): Okay, now you complainers know why I made this script a non-Java chat! Nyuk. nyuk...

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:42 AM): what is your URL Louise?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:43 AM): ...and what's your question Louise?

VipSolanki (2/15/99 9:43 AM): Louise, could go 'low tech' and use a server based cart system, e.g. using PERL - low tech, but reliable/ more robust

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:43 AM): Rob , :oÞ

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:43 AM): Thank you, Vip! :-)

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:44 AM): Muhammad - where do you live? In L.A., very few areas have cable modems.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:44 AM): my major competition has decided to go after the children's market with their glycerin soapcrafting info.. a good marketing move, in my opinion.. just want to know how I can equal or better this strategy?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:44 AM): Simon...I know you're there. Do you have a question I can help with?

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:45 AM): Bethlehem, PA. Moving near philly, they actually have cable modems available in both places.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:46 AM): Louise, stick with your core branding effort. Their move might mean they are failing in their original effort....

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:47 AM): Louise: Is it

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:47 AM): You don't have to be maniacal about it, but a strong brand will outlast the lightweights, most of whom try to "hit and run" a market and have no staying power. The hardest thing to do in business is to stick with it.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:48 AM): Of course, if a kid's version fits with your gift pack (for example) it could make a decent "family pack". But I wouldn't get spooked by it just yet.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:48 AM): The hardest thing to do in business is to stick with it. - Amen to that, Rob.The hardest thing to do in business is to stick with it.

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:49 AM): no Chaz..

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:50 AM): Your strongest brand element, Louise, is your home made, hand-crafted, caring-from-the-heart thing.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:50 AM): Louise - you going to make us guess your URL?

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:51 AM): yes, but that is what all other soapers use, I want to be different/

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:51 AM): If your competition doesn't match that, they're going to try another niche...maybe product-based.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:51 AM): oops, sorry Chaz, its

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:52 AM): Chaz, .. there IS a tho ...

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:53 AM): of course :) and and

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:53 AM): LOL :)

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:53 AM): If there is, Louise, there's the reason to STOP calling yourself the SoapLady. It fits you perfectly, but you're only advertising for someone else....

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:54 AM): ooohhhh, so I should say Louise from Green

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:54 AM): I always felt the Green Cottage was very descriptive. Fits nicely.

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:54 AM): Precisely why I changed my email address to back in September

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:54 AM): ooohhhh, so I should say Louise from Green Cottage Soap?

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:55 AM): Exactly. I assumed it was and went to that URL. Be consistent, Louise. My URL is, for example.

Muhammad( (2/15/99 9:55 AM): I always tell my clients to use e addresses at their company's domain....

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:55 AM): ..or Green Cottage Louise!

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:55 AM): ooohhhh, so I should say Louise from Green Cottage Soap?

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:55 AM): Yup. And maybe add an e-mail address as "" on your site.

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:55 AM): Or

Louise the SoapLady (2/15/99 9:56 AM): well, there is a revelation :) THANK YOU :)

Louise from Green Cottage Soap (2/15/99 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:57 AM): Another problem solved!! And for my next trick...

Louise from Green Cottage Soap (2/15/99 9:57 AM): pretty bulky though LOL

Bruce (2/15/99 9:57 AM): maybe ...Louise @GreenCottageSoaps

ChazAustin (2/15/99 9:57 AM): We'll all send you a bill, Louise ;-)

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:57 AM): Hey, "soaps" is short....

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:58 AM): I'm working on a client who will shortly be the

Elly-lynn (2/15/99 9:58 AM): and SOUNDS GREAT David ... *lol*

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:59 AM): I guess I should say, "working with", not "working on"; the latter could have some odd implications. :-)

David Beroff ( (2/15/99 9:59 AM): *g*... true, Lynn; I should say "WE are working with..." :-)

RobFrankel (2/15/99 9:59 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run to the "get propecia" site! (kidding) But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online!

Louise from Green Cottage Soap (2/15/99 10:00 AM): thanks Rob!

Muhammad( (2/15/99 10:00 AM): propecia?

VipSolanki (2/15/99 10:01 AM): thank you all

RobFrankel (2/15/99 10:01 AM): It's that blad spot thing....

RobFrankel (2/15/99 10:01 AM): I mean "bald spot" thing.

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