Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic March 1, 1999

Bruce (3/1/99 9:06 AM): If we don't do something here this a.m. we won't be able to live with Rob next week (seeing he's not around today to lead us)

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:06 AM): I may have lost the changes, Muhammad.

chazaustin.com (3/1/99 9:07 AM): Oh, where is Rob?

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:07 AM): How about my favorite... CPC vs. CPM

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:07 AM): Hmm....well I write it up and send it to you late tonight and you can tell me what you think.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:08 AM): He's at another meeting

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:09 AM): I'll lead today, so people any questions?

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:11 AM): I have a problem with Page Impressions having NO value unless they generate a click. But what is even worse is that an advertiser can take advantage of as CPC program to promote in such a way that he gets free advertising FOR FREE.

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:12 AM): (that's generally how you get free advertising)

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:12 AM): While there is merit to CPC, the advertiser does get the value of showing their ad 97-99% of the time without paying for it.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:13 AM): Puts the responsibility of generating click throughs on the publisher and not the advertiser.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:14 AM): Good Morning everyone.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:15 AM): Can anyone speak to the value of banner advertising versus targeted mailing lists?

Bruce (3/1/99 9:15 AM): Morning what is your marketing interests?

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:16 AM): Well banners are gone in a minute or two, and your primary interest is in the site not the ad.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:17 AM): With direct e, you have a targeted market and the ad sits in the persons inbox and as the read and re-read the opt-in mail they will see it more often

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:17 AM): Another factor is that a simple text ad is a lot less annoying than a banner ad.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:18 AM): With direct E, there is also the viral marketing aspect when people pass them on to their friends, so you can get 15-25% more people seeing your ad than the circulation suggests

Bruce (3/1/99 9:18 AM): It seems to me banners are more impulse while email can sustain consumers interest with quality info

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:19 AM): Why is there not a dual pricing model??? I think any advertiser would sign up for CPM at $.01 CPM, any provider would like to get $100.00 CPM Soooo.. CPM is not a question of Yes/No but of price. Same with CPC $10.00 a click is good for a web site and $0.01 CPC is good for a advertiser .... Why not combine them. If the CTR is low the web site gets something.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:19 AM): Would the targeted email work better for products? I have a Y2K solution for PCs that I would like to promote. My experience with banners is not good.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:19 AM): Plus they are easier to tune out, if your reading your favorite discussion group and posts and articles are separated by ads you are more likely to read them

chazaustin.com (3/1/99 9:19 AM): It's about permission - if you're getting e-mail, you're asking for it (in this case). Banner ads ask *you* to do something.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:21 AM): Permission and respect for people's mental time.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:22 AM): Direct E is great for products, they get passed around so much and since people are more likely to read them products sell well with direct e.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:22 AM): I think people get easily annoyed with constant ad flashes

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:22 AM): I find that I don't even know who advertises on the IADL list. I can't discriminate between ad message and message message

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:23 AM): Any recommendations on reputable list owners?

chazaustin.com (3/1/99 9:23 AM): Imagine if "banner" ads existed during the early days of TV - where they're asking you to spend your time looking at commercials! It would never have happened. So why are we surprised that banner ads on the net aren't terribly effective?

Bruce (3/1/99 9:24 AM): But then Dave the ad producers must be providing quality info instead of just name or product flashes

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:24 AM): What you will see coming shortly is the ability, via smart cards, to buy directly from a banner either on the web or on TV. Just click and buy.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:28 AM): I wonder if what is missing from most banners is - humor

Bruce (3/1/99 9:28 AM): At least entertain us if you are going inflict yourself on us

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:29 AM): I don't buy that much. I see ads all day on the web and I am not, generally, in a buying mood. Most of the ads don't even encourage me to look at them.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:29 AM): Does anyone know of a capability to group websites by locality? The concept being that if I want to advertise my goods to a local community, it would be great to have a location where locals could shop from websites representing a geographical location. Restaurants for example.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:31 AM): That's the trick with direct E, your on a list for advertising and all of a sudden an ad for a agency pops up. You read just as if it was content.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:31 AM): You could try the local parts of Yahoo. For instance I could buy ad space for the Allentown pa part of Yahoo, it I just wanted to advertise in my area.

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:32 AM): I buy when I want to buy BUT branding is already working on the web. I just bought some books. I have a Crown bookstore in walking distance, a GIANT Barnes&Noble near and I bought at Amazon

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:33 AM): That's the problem with the click through paradigm. You cannot measure click throughs on TV commercials...as long as business increases they keep running them. But they cannot measure direct response....if you run a cpm campaign and your sales go up, leave it.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:33 AM): Nilbe an interesting typo

Bruce (3/1/99 9:34 AM): Nible

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:34 AM): Just a Byte

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:35 AM): Dave, what I have heard is coming with advent of advanced Web-TV/PC-TV devices is the capability to buy a product as a commercial is running for that product. Pizza for example or a comforter from a department store.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:35 AM): Muhammad, aren't the 1 800 numbers for orders on TV similar

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:37 AM): True but that is a small percentage of the ads, most ads don't have numbers.

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:38 AM): Yes, but with a smart card embedded in the PC-TV, you just click on it with your infrared mouse and you have purchased it. Banner will run across the bottom of the screen.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:38 AM): Are they not effective? If they are then more would do it

Bruce (3/1/99 9:40 AM): The smart card is simply increasing the impulse factor

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:40 AM): Well, that's kinda like CPM/CPC. you can go to the site and buy the product. How often would you order a Pizza? The CTR would be very low before I would be in the mood for Pizza. BUT if I had seen lost of Pizza King ads then when I was hungry I would cal up Pizza King. I didn't buy from Amazon because I saw an ad at that moment.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:40 AM): You don't have to think (or pick up the phone) just press a button

Bruce (3/1/99 9:42 AM): Any ad is only successful if it is there when you are hungry

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:43 AM): Just like Publishers Clearing House when the "impulse" buying bills come rolling in the impulse buying will decrease

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:44 AM): Bruce, I disagree. The ad is useful if you see it enough times that you associate the advertiser with a solution to your hunger whenever you are hungry

Bruce (3/1/99 9:45 AM): Good point for one segment ... that's what branding is about?

Big Planet (3/1/99 9:46 AM): Muhammad, what type of Internet advertising do you advise for your clients?

Bruce (3/1/99 9:46 AM): ..but there's another group that buys on impulse when they are hungry

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:47 AM): And that kind of success is so much more powerful than the "I see it, I click" because the person who is branded carries around the "ad" inside all day and night.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:47 AM): Depends on the client...I don't approach marketing with the attitude that tactic X is the best way to advertise

Bruce (3/1/99 9:47 AM): The group that is influenced by branding requires the constant reinforcement of banners, etc to lock your brand of pizza in their mind

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:48 AM): Some clients do well with strategic linking, some with great content...however direct E campaigns have been successful as of late

Bruce (3/1/99 9:48 AM): There is no *one* right way, no *one* right answer

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:50 AM): Bruce, how often would hunger be there at the same time you were seeing a Food ad

chazaustin.com (3/1/99 9:50 AM): I believe in Robert Kennedy's motto about political campaigns - on all fronts at all times. Try everything - see what works. Bet on the frontrunners.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:50 AM): Direct e caters well to the individual that craves info. I would think Internet users are generally that kind

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:51 AM): We try to create custom marketing programs that integrate several strategies in order to achieve success.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:51 AM): Dave, why does Kellogg's advert cereal in the evenings; Bud beer on the Superbowl

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:52 AM): I use Gleem toothpaste BUT not because of advertising!!! I use it because I can't brush after every meal.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:53 AM): I agree that's branding. But I also like Chaz RFK quote

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:53 AM): The same with cars, I'm more likely to buy a car based on the test drive or from seeing one on the street as opposed to advertising.

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:54 AM): Bruce, I don't know except that is where their target market is located

Bruce (3/1/99 9:54 AM): and Muhammad "integrate several strategies"

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:56 AM): Yup, think about a corvette is the best ad for a corvette. You see it you want it, end of story.

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 9:56 AM): I think a car advertiser has won if you take a test drive. How many auto brands did you not even get into when you bough your last car.

Bruce (3/1/99 9:56 AM): Someone earlier said "it depends on your product" I think there are many strategies and just using one may eliminate a large audience that would be impacted by a different one

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 9:58 AM): Lots, but to be honest I buy cars based on looks, practicality, price & performance, but the first one is looks. If I see cars on the highway and I don't like the way they look NO ad is going to get me to test drive it.

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 10:01 AM): I buy based on repair record and practicality

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 10:02 AM): I factor that in too, but they are cool looking cars that are practical and dependable.

Bruce (3/1/99 10:02 AM): And, without info you won't get past "looks" that is truly where email shines

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 10:02 AM): Muhammad, would you call me when this is over?

Bruce (3/1/99 10:03 AM): Gotta go. It is lunch where I live. Maybe a pizza.... :-)

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 10:03 AM): be sure to brush after

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 10:03 AM): Could it be around 3:30 your time? I have a lunch meeting...

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 10:04 AM): Same here, Big Planet if you want some direct E info, drop me a line lee@adgconsulting.com

Big Planet (3/1/99 10:05 AM): Muhammad, I will do that. Thanks

Dave- Lovepoetry.com (3/1/99 10:05 AM): Maybe... Try. I don't know where I'll be then. Good chance I'll be here.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 10:05 AM): Well folks gotta go, nice talking to you.

Muhammad(adgconsulting.com) (3/1/99 10:05 AM): Okay Dave, talk to you then.

Big Planet (3/1/99 10:06 AM): Me too, thanks for the feedback all.

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