Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic March 11, 2002

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:00 AM): Wow, looks like we may have a gaggle of folks today

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:00 AM): Entered the room. (3/11/2002 9:00 AM): How's it going? Besides this live forum, how do you all normally communicate with each other?

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:00 AM): hi Rob

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:00 AM): Hi Marc, this is a great bunch of folks, and this clinic is a great resource

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:01 AM): Greetings.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:01 AM): Hi Rob, How was Arizona?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:01 AM): Greetings Rob

weber (3/11/2002 9:01 AM): Entered the room. (3/11/2002 9:01 AM): Nice to meet you Marlene

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:02 AM): You too Mark

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:03 AM): Arizona was a kick.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:04 AM): Great, it sounded like it would be a fun get together

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:04 AM): how many FrankelBees are there?

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:04 AM): I was just wondering the same thing Tim

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:05 AM): I didn't see any FB's was early on a Saturday...

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:08 AM): Tim: We have a few thousand officially on the rolls (3/11/2002 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:09 AM): Since things appear to be a bit slow in here, I'll start - Rob - any thoughts on the name "FatWallet.Com" ?

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:10 AM): Um, not sure what it's for....

Del (3/11/2002 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Del (3/11/2002 9:10 AM): Tim: I love the name. :-)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:11 AM): Currently it is about online consumerism

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:12 AM): Tim, are you thinking of changing the focus?

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:12 AM): Well it worked for FatBrain...for a while

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:12 AM): Lemme check it out....

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:12 AM): slowly shift from being centered on online shopping to more of anything to do with earning, investing, and spending money

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:13 AM): Are all your listings on the main page affiliate programs?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:13 AM): right now it is mostly on the spending part.

Del (3/11/2002 9:13 AM): Hey Jonathan, when do you feel like *working* on a writing gig? I have a product line that I'm developing focused on personal branding (for loan officers).

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): large majority are affiliate links

Del (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): Tim: Color switch to tan/khaki + green.

weber (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): The name strikes me as EITHER it will cost me money or I will make money thru investments (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): Tim, I like the name but w/o looking at the site, I immediately thought about investing, stocks, etc...instead of saving $$ on consumer goods

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): I'm still here, but have a quick emergency

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): Hold on....

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:14 AM): Del - email me after the meeting?

Del (3/11/2002 9:15 AM): Jonathan. Will do.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:15 AM): The colors right now are a bit on the tech/computer gamer side

weber (3/11/2002 9:15 AM): Hey Del

Del (3/11/2002 9:15 AM): heya. biz good?

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:15 AM): I agree with Marc - so it is good Tim that you are thinking of adding more on earning , investing and saving

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:16 AM): Okay, crisis averted. Thanks, folks. Why do you ask about the name, Tim?

Del (3/11/2002 9:16 AM): Rob: Crisis? You just had to run and stir up some coffee. ;-)

weber (3/11/2002 9:16 AM): Pickin up. Launching a new product soon

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:16 AM): Actually, NPR was calling about a radio interview tomorrow....

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:17 AM): after reading 'revenge', Just curious on your thoughts if it is 'fun and memorable'

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:17 AM): Tim, how o you differ from

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:17 AM): cool, Rob, you gonna do it? When would it air?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:18 AM): we are much more complete, and have the second most active shopping oriented community on the web

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:18 AM): Okay, Tim....that's a fair question. I'm going out on a limb here and reacting to the warmth of the "saving money/coupon" category that your site seems to be missing. There's lots of data, but no warmth here.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:19 AM): Maybe it's my pushcart heritage, but I miss the joy of finding a great deal here.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:19 AM): it does have a hard edge - Our forums are a bit softer.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:19 AM): Where's the "voice" of the brand Tim?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:19 AM): If you look at the forums we get a more personal feel

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:20 AM): [Tim - for new visitors to the site, there's also really no description of what it's all about...]

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:21 AM): Ah, but I'm looking at your home page!

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:21 AM): Oh, you do site reviews now Rob! :-)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:21 AM): we're working on adding the top 5 most active threads in our forum to our home page automatically

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:22 AM): [hi Jan]

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:22 AM): If I go to, I get hit with millions of lines of tiny type, which suggests lots of stuff happening. But it's almost like going to a warehouse with no one helping.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:22 AM): [hi]

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:22 AM): I'm not sure I understand your question about "voice" of the brand

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:22 AM): Jan, I do when the site is an execution of the brand strategy... which all sites should be.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:23 AM): Tim -- I see data. Valuable stuff. But if all you have is data, that data can be co-opted by someone else who has access to the same data. it's how that data is presented, along with other values around that data, that allows your brand to come through.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:23 AM): So you do it all the time in other words :-) I never dared ask what you thought of mine (which is almost done)...

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:24 AM): Jan -- if someone asks, I tell them.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:24 AM): Adding on what Jonathan said about no description for new users, one of my pet peeves about eCommerce sites, is that many folks do not tell about the company or people involved, where the biz originates, and sometimes not contact info, except for a feedback form

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:25 AM): Tim, the name itself conveys -- to me -- something about how I can get richer.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:25 AM): I agree that we are data centric - it has evolved over time because that has been the most effective in generating traffic for our merchants - How can we soften that?

Del (3/11/2002 9:25 AM): Rob: I never really thought of a site that way. I frequent dealmac and have always liked it for some *unknown/undefinable* qualities.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:25 AM): In a blind test, I wouldn't have identified it as a site that saves me money. You know what I mean?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:26 AM): we certainly do want people to get the feeling of being richer by spending more wisely

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:26 AM): Del, dealnews and dealmac are "friendlier" sites. Just the way they're laid out makes them less intense.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:26 AM): Site seems no nonsense to me. Definitely lacks a personal touch I think. Then again if savings your game you may not want any clutter...

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:26 AM): Tim - a casual visitor to the site wouldn't know you were saving them money necessarily - just presenting 'the latest prices'...

Del (3/11/2002 9:26 AM): Rob: I think it's even the deals (which are compared to existing deals) as well.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:27 AM): Tim, I think you're data centric for a few reasons: First, you built the site for data delivery. The site does that, so you probably thought your mission was completed. The truth is that you didn't build a data delivery site. You're building an e-commerce site. And that has different specs.

Del (3/11/2002 9:27 AM): Rob: That's how I picked up the Dymo Labelwriter 330 with a $100 rebate.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:28 AM): Shouldn't it be "" btw? This is not for rich people, but for those who are definitely not...

Michael Chwastiak ( (3/11/2002 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:28 AM): For data delivery, you doling out a ton. But you want PEOPLE to use, buy and evangelize the brand. What tools are you giving them to do that?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:28 AM): Interesting suggestion, Jan.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:29 AM): Tim, you see what I'm getting at?

Del (3/11/2002 9:29 AM): Jan: Nah. sounds right. :-)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:29 AM): just for reference, not that it means anything about site quality - dealnews is #65,856 on the web , we are #10,923 (per alexa stats)

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:30 AM): Tim - even something taken from the forums as a subhead, such as "Katy Smith saved $100 using FatWallet this week...ask her how..." then linking to a brief testimonial.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:30 AM): It is going to take a while to digest... I agree we need to show a more personal edge

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:30 AM): Tim: Stats is stats. Those don't mean much to me, personally. Now here's a question for you, though: why aren't your deals organized by category?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:31 AM): Maybe the no nonsense is the best brand though? I remember when the discounts stored started and you stumbled over card board boxes and found no help. Still they grew and grew because the prices was right...

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:32 AM): See, to me -- and I think this is what Del was referring to -- the intuitive means for approaching shopping is by category rather than vendor.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:32 AM): I like that Jonathan

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:33 AM): we do have stores listed by category, category pages themselves are short in coming

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:33 AM): Jan, there's a place in the market for everyone, that's true. but also, don't forget that here in the USA, Kmart just closed 284 stores and went into Chapter 11 because they took that approach. In fact, that's what we'll be discussing on NR tomorrow.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:33 AM): Oops. NPR tomorrow

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:34 AM): Tim - do you do any personalization? It would be neat if I could sign up to be notified by email about deals on printers...since that's what I might be in the market for. Can your database model handle that?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:34 AM): Tim, I really believe that on the web especially, Branded icons are important. Put a face to the site. Warm it up.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:34 AM): the infrastructure is there to handle "hardware" by store by offer....

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:34 AM): No Point Rebutting?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:35 AM): Sure, Jan.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:36 AM): do you recommend random faces? or a particular face?

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:36 AM): Jan - I think today the 'shopping experience' is crucial...the customers you want are not necessarily the ones that are going to take the lowest price, but that will appreciate the shopping experience you provide them.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:36 AM): I was hoping you would tell what it was actually :) Are you talking personalization or branding now?

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:37 AM): Jonathan - we also have a free personal shopper service where we scrounge to find the best deal on the web - beyond the straight price search. We call it "Ask FatWallette"

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:37 AM): I recommend developing a brand strategy and then finding a figurehead who represents and personifies that brand strategy. Could be one person. Could be a group. Everything is driven by the brand strategy.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:37 AM): Sure Jonathan, but sometimes you just want the product at the right price. I think people clipping coupons are that kind of people...

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:37 AM): Forget "personalization". That's a big myth. Save that for the shopping cart.

Del (3/11/2002 9:38 AM): Rob: Can that figurehead, in your interpretation, be a non-entity? A persona mascot for instance?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:38 AM): I just meant whether you needed an actual person on the site. I do not have that on, but I certainly think it is "personal" nonetheless...

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:38 AM): can it be a fictional character? or is that significantly less valued than a real person/group?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:39 AM): Del, I don't recommend it. Use a real live person or people. This is what we're doing for our i-legion clients.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:40 AM): On FrankelBiz, for example, I'm the Branded icon. But I'm not always involved or present. Yet people feel good that there's someone minding the store.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:40 AM): "HI, it's me Steve!"

Del (3/11/2002 9:40 AM): Right, but with something like, where currently it's focused on deals and coupons, isn't there strength in some animated character, like a fat talking wallet?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:41 AM): Maybe you should franchise yourself Rob :) Would save the rest of us a lot of time :)

Del (3/11/2002 9:41 AM): If they move to stocks, bonds and commodities, the talking fat wallet isn't a good choice. Obviously. :-)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:41 AM): The "piggy bank" icon is already taken... :-) I'm waiting for the pig roast

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:41 AM): I don't think so, Del. The days of Reddi Kilowatt and Speedy Alka Seltzer are pretty much over. (3/11/2002 9:41 AM): you mean cool

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): Jan, that's exactly what I'm doing with (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): would they be you're major competitor?

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): The Pillsbury doughboy is still doing a good job, don't you think?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): How much faith are you going to put into a dancing wallet?

John Charlesworth ( Professional Web Tracking) (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): Entered the room.

Del (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): A live person doesn't help Wendys.

Del (3/11/2002 9:42 AM): Dead dead dead.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:43 AM): Del is in a dead spin :)

Del (3/11/2002 9:43 AM): And I think the point being missed here is the dynamics of the website.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:43 AM): The Pillsbury doughboy is not a branded icon. It's an animated logo. You don't send your questions to the Pillsbury doughboy....

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): The Pillsbury doughboy doesn't recommend recipes or help you become a better homemaker.

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): True!

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): Some people mail Santa though :)

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): (ANYONE ELSE have a question? If not, we can keep on going)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): coolsavings is the leader in terms of traffic in our marketspace, at around #2,000 on the web. They are also questionable at best as a business entity.

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 9:44 AM): Jan - yes, but Santa is a real person :)

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:45 AM): Can I get a site review? Pleeeease! :)

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:45 AM): Tim, what's the big deal with rankings? What's your revenue model? traffic?

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:45 AM): A fellow was here earlier asking along the lines of branding patriotism

Del (3/11/2002 9:45 AM): We'll just agree to disagree, Rob. I think in some web settings, a "real live human figure" doesn't have to be the branded icon.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): Numbers - the more numbers we get, the more profitable we are. we scale VERY well.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): Jan, which site? (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): Cool Savings also makes their email list available for rental, maybe you should consider opting in your users

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): What's your rev model Tim?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): More of you know the background as I have asked much about things concerning it. It is @ if you want to peak at it...

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): Along that line, how would one go about Branding (seeing today is 6 months since 911) issues about the tragedy without being too insensitive about it..

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:46 AM): I refuse to sell out my customers

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): Marlene, what's there to brand? For what purpose?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): I'm with you, Tim.

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): rev model - we generate revenue by making our users aware of great values, and we either are paid a placement fee, or a percentage of the sale by the merchant. (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): Well, certainly not to your competitors

Del (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): Tim: Affiliate programs?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:48 AM): I don't think you can brand a collective event like 9/11 or why anyone would want to. Except for political reasons...

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:49 AM): Del - yes, majority are affiliate programs

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:49 AM): Tim, then I definitely think you ought to consider a stronger brand strategy. I really think if you resonated more with consumers, you'd do bigger business at lower acquisition costs.

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:49 AM): Give them something besides data and they'll have more reasons to evangelize you.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:49 AM): I think what I have in mind is a forum for how 911 has changed people, even if they did not live in an effected area, sort of a therapeutic outlet

Del (3/11/2002 9:50 AM): Tim: Aggregators are making money nicely.... Coolshopping does that, as does Bizrate. :-) (And all they do is list stores. heh.)

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:50 AM): thanks for the thoughts everyone... I do appreciate it!

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:51 AM): Tim, it's a valuable site, no doubt. I just think you'd could be wailing with higher conversion numbers, that's all.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:51 AM): Del were you the guy I read about in the archives who may have a Etailers chat here, at Rob's chat?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:52 AM): I think it is too late for therapy. You could do a memorial of sorts though. It would be very hard to do unless you were very close to the event somehow though. Otherwise it smells like exploitation...

Tim Storm ( (3/11/2002 9:52 AM): I have some privacy differences with Bizrate from a consumer perspective, but I love their data from a research perspective because of it.

weber (3/11/2002 9:52 AM): Yes he was

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:52 AM): (TEN MINUTE WAARNING) Jan, I have two immediate issues for you: First, your concept is new, so I believe that your "brokering" page should be up front. If they buy into brokering, they'll continue, but if they don't know what you mean, the home page loses value.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:52 AM): Is that still in the planning stage or?

Del (3/11/2002 9:53 AM): I was considering it, yes. I just have a lot on my plate right now with new product development, a reseller account for a specific product line and a website overhaul.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:53 AM): Jan, yes, that is exactly my fear, I want to provide a platform for those that want it, I just do not wanna appear to be pandering :)

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:54 AM): I try to touch on the issues on the main page, but I guess I could do more...

Del (3/11/2002 9:54 AM): Tim: I use Bizrate's site strictly to examine other eCommerce site layouts and sales implementation. :*)

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:54 AM): Second -- and this could just be me -- I get lost in the copy.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:54 AM): What is the second one?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:54 AM): Del, it's only an hour or less. You should do it.

Del (3/11/2002 9:55 AM): Rob: You can be a pain in the rump, you know. :-)

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:55 AM): My particular liking is to get an quick overview of how you can help me. Then I click on the ways I want to get more information.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:55 AM): I noticed a lot of talk from people with portals, would they fall into Etailers, and Rob would it be okay to use your chat to set up a portal owners chat?

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:55 AM): I noticed a lot of talk from people with portals, would they fall into Etailers, and Rob would it be okay to use your chat to set up a portal owners chat?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:56 AM): Yes, language is a problem. I have made it easy to get around though, no?

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:57 AM): I'd be interested in a portal owners chat

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:57 AM): Yes. Although I think I would like to see some real information on the About Us page. Right now it's very general.

Pat (3/11/2002 9:57 AM): Entered the room.

Del (3/11/2002 9:58 AM): Marlene: my concept was for businesses involved specifically selling products (and perhaps services) via the web. A portal wouldn't necessary find any advantage of such a session, but I think a Portal discussion group would generate some interest in a small core group of people.

Pat (3/11/2002 9:58 AM): Just in time to say hello and good-by - have a good one

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 9:58 AM): Frederick, what days and times are good for you?

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:58 AM): So, if I cleaned up the copy and was more specific on the main page and the about page it would not be half bad? The about page was the first I wrote I think. the rest developed from there. I was also in doubt how personal I wanted it to be...

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES) Fred, you can host a chat if you like. We'll announce it on FB.

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:59 AM): Any day 7pm CST ??

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 9:59 AM): How do you like the design? I chose the colors and so on based on the concept so they should match :)

Frederick ( (3/11/2002 9:59 AM): or mid afternoon

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 9:59 AM): Just give me a heads up before you do it.

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): Rob - can I host a quick focus group if I wanted to?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): Jan, it looks good. Easy to navigate.

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): Rob, would you mind if we had that portal chat here in your chat?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): But you're talking to media buyers and ad people.

Del (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): Rob: What does it take to get you to do an email interview for site publication (like my site for instance and the subject covered "personal branding")

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:00 AM): Jonathan, sure. just remember though, that this forum is public. Right now, there are at least 20 people lurking but not signed on.

Jan Hviid Hemmingsen ( (3/11/2002 10:01 AM): What do you mean Rob?

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:01 AM): Del, I'm happy to do an interview with you. Just e-mail the questions and stick some links of mine in.

Jonathan ( (3/11/2002 10:01 AM): Rob - fair enough

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:01 AM): That's how I do most of them....

Del (3/11/2002 10:01 AM): Rob: Sweet. I'll also include a Bio and a link to your book purchase site. :-)

RobFrankel ( (3/11/2002 10:02 AM): Wow, that session flew by, eh? okay, folks, time to hit the trail. I'll see you online!

MarleneJ ( (3/11/2002 10:02 AM): Thanks Rob

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