Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic March 25, 2002

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): Greetings y'all doin' this fine post-Oscar morning?

Jacque ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): hiya Rob!

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): hi Rob (thanks Jacque!)

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): <---- hates the Academy Awards

John McCumber ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

weber (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): God Morning Rob ( (3/25/2002 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:02 AM): McCumber! You have a new URL!

Jacque ( (3/25/2002 9:02 AM): <---hated most of the dresses at the Academy awards

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:02 AM): So....who's up first? Any new people today? Don't be shy.....we only have 60 minutes!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): I voted "Revenge of Brand X" for best picture...

weber (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): I have a question

John McCumber ( (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): Yes sir. I took the plunge and started my own business.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): Go weber...

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): And, I'm the new kid today --

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:03 AM): Janiene, I'm optioning the movie rights as soon as we can figure out who to play the lead....

weber (3/25/2002 9:04 AM): We are getting ready to start a magazine/ezine hybrid. It will be under a separate company

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:04 AM): Janiene, you can go right after Weber....

weber (3/25/2002 9:04 AM): It is for diabetics, but I want to start with the right steps first as we never did anything like this before

Skip (3/25/2002 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

weber (3/25/2002 9:05 AM): What is the best starting point?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:05 AM): And your question would be???

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:05 AM): Weber, does it have ANY roots in your current practice?

weber (3/25/2002 9:06 AM): IN a sense. Our site sells to a lot of diabetics

weber (3/25/2002 9:06 AM): But, we are teaming up with a Doctor to do this mag/ezine

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:07 AM): Well, then I think the lowest-hanging fruit would be right there. After all, if you don't start there, where's the base of subscribers?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:07 AM): The Doctor shouldn't have any issue with that. In fact, the doc should be contributing his own patient user base.....

weber (3/25/2002 9:08 AM): Of course we are going to advertise to our current subscribers, and on the emperorsherbologist site, but I am curious as to when to start with the branding

Skip (3/25/2002 9:08 AM): Hi; Skip here (; I'm new to the group also, but love this concept!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:08 AM): Is he bringing anything to the party?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:08 AM): Skip, welcome....I think you and Janiene can go after Weber.....

weber (3/25/2002 9:09 AM): Mostly expertise. He will be the "Face" ( (3/25/2002 9:09 AM): No bobbing head weber?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:09 AM): Weber, I think you'd be wise to brand it as part of your main brand, because that's where they want to go to buy diabetic stuff and ancillary supplements.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:10 AM): Be careful, Weber, because a branded icon has to be carefully handled. You don't want them to BECOME the brand, which can happen. (3/25/2002 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

weber (3/25/2002 9:10 AM): But we also want to take ads from competitors, etc.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:10 AM): Weber, is this a free or paid subscription newsletter? (3/25/2002 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

weber (3/25/2002 9:11 AM): Paid subscription. We are talking about $1.00 to $2.00 per month on an annual subscription

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:11 AM): Also, does the doctor get anything out of this? Does he/she have products to sell through this channel? ( (3/25/2002 9:11 AM): A few issues back in the Frankel Clinic archives is a study from a winery on what happens when you brand the expert instead of the business.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:12 AM): Hey, LVLady has been reading!

weber (3/25/2002 9:12 AM): The Doctor gets to write which is more of what he wants to do. I suspect that eventually he will write some books that will be sold as well. ( (3/25/2002 9:12 AM): Now and then I need some educashun!!!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:12 AM): Weber, as far as the subscription goes, you may want to think about annual versus monthly...

weber (3/25/2002 9:13 AM): I figure we can sell monthly issues for a lot higher, kind of like they do with magazine racks vs annual subscriptions

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:13 AM): Okay, Weber, remember Frankel's Sixth law about leadership. You have to take the lead now with your brand. Establish that pre-eminence now, before the product grows.

weber (3/25/2002 9:14 AM): What do you suggest?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:14 AM): Weber, I publish FrankelTips weekly, but charge annually. This month is the first month of renewals and that way, people only have to think about the charge every year. Also, a low fee like that means you have to track who's current and who's not every month

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:15 AM): I had Brian Rickman write a script for me that automatically sends out renewal notices and unsub commands as renewal time nears.

weber (3/25/2002 9:16 AM): I know that will be a book keeping nightmare, but I think I can find a software to do that.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:16 AM): Also, a low subs fee is worth it IF you can sell product OR you have a big database.

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:16 AM): Not to mention transaction fees

weber (3/25/2002 9:16 AM): See, I knew there would be a way :) Was it expensive for the script?

Frederick ( (3/25/2002 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:17 AM): But $2 a month means they can unsub after one month...that's a lot of work.

weber (3/25/2002 9:17 AM): We want low subs price for 2 reasons. 1 we can attract a bigger user base, and 2. with the price so low, I think we can deter theft

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:17 AM): Brain is a great scriptwriter. His link is below in the bottom left frame. Send him an e-mail and he'll quote you a good price.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:17 AM): Janiene, did you have a question I can help with?

weber (3/25/2002 9:18 AM): As for the sub, it would be say a $24.00 annual subscription, of course like anything they can unsubscribe when they want.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:18 AM): Weber PRICE has nothing to do with sales. Believe me.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:18 AM): If they'll buy for $2 a month, they'll buy for $24 a year. I'd rather have the money up front.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:18 AM): Yes -- sure do. I'm starting a marketing business... and I seem to find just deadbeats.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:19 AM): At $24 a year, FrankelTips is "48¢ an issue"....What a value!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:19 AM): I secure customers and get bad checks, etc. I need a new lake to fish from!

weber (3/25/2002 9:20 AM): I agree for the most part. But if someone buys an issue for $5.00 they are more likely to share, than tell someone buy your won copy it's only $2.00

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:20 AM): Janiene, there are a couple of things to do. First, get a merchant account! I can't tell you how much that does to get rid of deadbeats.

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:20 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:20 AM): Janiene, do you happen to subscribe to FrankelTips? Today's issue was made for you!!!! (3/25/2002 9:20 AM): What's a good merchant account for online use?

Elizabeth ( (3/25/2002 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:21 AM): I have a feeling I'll be a subscriber before the day is through!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:21 AM): Weber, I have no idea about theft, but I did kill the FrankelTips Archive, and replaced it with http://www.FrankelTips/com/frankel50/payment-form.html

Marc ( (3/25/2002 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:21 AM): Lorilyn, I use CardService and in conjunction

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:22 AM): And Rob... your suggestion to find worthy customers?

weber (3/25/2002 9:22 AM): Rob, I still have a question. When should the branding begin? At the formative stage, and base the personality around it, or find the personality first and then brand? (3/25/2002 9:22 AM): Rob, did you need a programmer to do a shopping cart/form?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:23 AM): Anyway, Janiene, here's a perfect case that happened just last week: A complete stranger needed a logo but claimed poverty (as they do). I simply said, "look, I'll give you a great price, if you pay up front."

weber (3/25/2002 9:23 AM): Lorilyn, we use americart they are great!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:23 AM): Weber: Branding begins in the business plan! Name, format, everything!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:23 AM): Lorilyn, I use a simple script that Brian wrote for me.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:24 AM): The script goes directly to the Authorize secure form, so I don't need a shopping cart. (3/25/2002 9:24 AM): Thx, Bob... and another question: Teleclasses -- good for marketing purposes? Good for learning?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:24 AM): Janiene: Then I told him, "you can get air miles". he laughed and whipped out the card. Paid up front and we did good business. ( (3/25/2002 9:24 AM): and both have scripts for you to use when you sign up.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:24 AM): Yes, I have them pay upfront... but the second check bounces... not that I haven't done wonderful things for them... it's my opinion that small business people wait until it's too late to bring in a marketing expert to save their butts.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:25 AM): Janiene, you're right. But it's up to you to lead, not follow. And once you set terms, be kind but firm. I don't release materials until I get final payment, period.

Frederick ( (3/25/2002 9:25 AM): Janiene - don't accept a second check - when the first bounces, ask for a money order.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Lorilyn, I once shot a man for calling me Bob......

Skip (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Janiene: how does brining in a marketing person solve bad checks?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Oh, I'm sorry -- first check is fine, but I ask for 2 months upfront, 2nd check post-dated. (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Whoops! Typo!

weber (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Squirt gun Rob?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:26 AM): Lorilyn, I've never done teleclasses, but I wouldn't do them for different purposes. (3/25/2002 9:27 AM): Which different purposes?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:27 AM): Janiene, why would you take a post dated check? And if you do, wait 'til it clears before you release stuff.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:27 AM): I'm not solving bad checks, trying to help small business stay afloat -- but I think they call me in too late, when they're going down for the third time, so to speak.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:28 AM): Lorilyn, I don't do them because they're a time suck and my experience has been that they don't lead to real business. If people really want to do business, they can do a FrankelCall. ( (3/25/2002 9:28 AM): You have to wait till a check clears with auctions. I always state, items will not be shipped until payment has cleared. (3/25/2002 9:28 AM): A FrankelCall?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:28 AM): Janiene, welcome to the club! However, there is a solution to your problem, but you're going to hate it!!

Skip (3/25/2002 9:28 AM): Thanks Janiene. Actually, that's what I do; help management turnaround their business...

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:29 AM): Lorilyn: People prepay $500 for an intensive hour of solutions.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:29 AM): Give it to me straight Rob! ( (3/25/2002 9:29 AM): PayPal has some good payment plans. And they let you know if a sale is confirmed or not confirmed.

Janet (3/25/2002 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:30 AM): Okay, Janiene, you have to realize that you're making yourself attractive to those showing up on your doorstep. you have to realize that YOU need to change something. You're telegraphing something that says, "We take all you broken down types."

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:31 AM): Janeine, you have a URL you want me to look at? ( (3/25/2002 9:31 AM): Rob, how long do you wait to schedule a conference to determine if the payment is good?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:31 AM): LVLADY, it's instant. As soon as their credit card charge clears, we confirm the date.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:32 AM): The second part, Janiene, is that you have to turn pro-active. Start contacting the businesses you want to have as clients. This is the #1 effort coming out of my office now, and it's very helpful.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:32 AM): No URL, not yet. -- I'm attending Chamber of Comm. meetings, networking, etc.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:33 AM): And just to make you feel better, you should know that EVERYONE, including me, has been there.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:33 AM): Janiene, go global. Get on the web with a strong, articulated brand NOW. Give them a reason to call you. No kidding, 99% of my business comes from my site, virtually NOTHING is local.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:34 AM): Well Rob, I love the way you haven't forgotten your beginnings... and that's why I'm here today, after lurking for a few weeks.

weber (3/25/2002 9:34 AM): Janiene, let the powers to be at those sponsored functions know what happened (bad checks) they may be able to put some pressure on the thief to make good.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:35 AM): Also, remember that "a prophet is never heeded in his own land". By staying local, you stay trapped in your own surroundings, reminding and questioning yourself. When you hit far away locations, you can present yourself the way you want to be perceived,

George ( (3/25/2002 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:35 AM): "a profit is never seeded in its own land"

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:36 AM): The #1 issue I find is that EDUCATING PROSPECTS is much harder and much more important and difficult than ever before.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:36 AM): I like Rob's version better... about the prophet.

George ( (3/25/2002 9:36 AM): I certainly agree with that Rob

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:36 AM): Janiene, I NEVER used to reach out to clients, but I think that's why they came too late. Now I contact them BEFORE they rot and that's where the business can happen.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:37 AM): Skip, did you have a question? I didn't want to forget about you there.... ( (3/25/2002 9:37 AM): What has changed that makes it more difficult Rob? The dotcom failures?

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:37 AM): As I've posted before, educating prospects is our #1 problem. Any tips?

Frederick ( (3/25/2002 9:37 AM): I don't like this prophet.profit talk - I am pushing for local use of the internet.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:37 AM): Educating prospects... and I'm still learning the game myself. I think I fear looking like an amateur.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:38 AM): Rob, thanks for asking. I'

Skip (3/25/2002 9:39 AM): Rob, I'm having a challenge with the branding and positioning of me, my upcoming web venture and my first ebook...

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:39 AM): No LVLADY, what's changed is that there are more people going into business who have no accountability. Lots of Exec's who know little because they figure they can buy their way out of problems. And because they don't know what they're buying, they buy stuff that fails.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:39 AM): Rob, and everyone... thanks so much for the sage advice... I'll act on it now!

George ( (3/25/2002 9:39 AM): With regards to Internet Marketing, one challenge is that many of the decision makers don't understand how the Web works with regards to attracting new customers. They don't see the value.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:40 AM): As I mentioned, aside from other management type consulting, I have found a niche in the turnaround/rescue area, but cannot figure out how to position that....

Skip (3/25/2002 9:40 AM): not a lot of humble business owners willing to search the net for outside counsel...

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:40 AM): Janiene, everyone goes through that. I'm STILL daunted by new business at first -- until I realize that I've been doing this better than almost anyone and have never wrecked a company yet!!!!

Tamra ( (3/25/2002 9:40 AM): Rob, what's your take on yellow pages ads? If you're just getting started (like Janiene) do they help with local branding/contacts? ( (3/25/2002 9:40 AM): That sounds like the old scenario that caused a lot of failures.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): Skip, I'd have to see what your plan was like before I could really comment....need specifics.

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): I agree with George that there is still a gap between top level management who are uncomfortable with the net and a netsavvy second tier of management that lives and breathes online.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): Skip -- I hear you. That's exactly what I'm facing, although I want to help market, not rescue.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): Tamra, YellowPages have NEVER yielded me any business. Ever. I think they're great for copy machine repair, but not much else. Nice for local impulse and suppliers. ( (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): That's very true George. I find when I design sites, they start out with a more or less business card site and then come soon after and want more because they've gotten excited about the possibilities.

George ( (3/25/2002 9:41 AM): Right on Elizabeth

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:42 AM): Elizabeth, that's why I only pursue execs who are committed to online. most of them have voicemail if you try to call.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:43 AM): The plan is to leverage my slings/arrows experience and training into electronic media forms like ebooks, teleclasses, audio, video, etc.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:43 AM): George/Elizabeth: Wait till you make them money through the site if you really want to see converts!

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:43 AM): We're launching our first site now and are just dong a business card site. There is no faith at all in the possibility that our site might attract business

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:44 AM): Skip - it can be very tough trying to convince someone they're doing things wrong...until it's too late, as Janiene mentioned

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:44 AM): Skip, as I mentioned earlier, if you go the teleclasses route, you likely end up as a coach, which is a supreme time suck. But if that's what you want, that's fine. I have a problem with it because there are only so many hours in a day.

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:44 AM): If we got three good leads through our site the execs here would plotz! ( (3/25/2002 9:44 AM): You have to be sure that you built in the branding to the original site Elizabeth and then be sure you market so people know about it.

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:45 AM): FYI plotz is be excited :-).

Skip (3/25/2002 9:45 AM): Jonathan: I know! Long history doing that. Which is where the positioning and branding comes in....

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:45 AM): Now, if you're talking about selling web-based classes, that's fine, too, because you're letting the server do all the work.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:45 AM): Elizabeth, that's the point of my i-legions program. I know how to make money for those business and the minute I do, they freak! ( (3/25/2002 9:46 AM): I just did one for some psychologists that run a court sponsored program here in town and they call me every week for something new. The interest has been great and lawyers now put the site on their desktops. (3/25/2002 9:46 AM): Elizabeth, instead of brochure, put useful (free) info on site so people will visit and at least know about you company

Skip (3/25/2002 9:46 AM): I'm not committed to the teleclass, but it seems it might be a good way to build whatever the brand and positioning is...

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:46 AM): I was interested in I-legions but we don't really even have the customer database to leverage

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:46 AM): Skip, you don't know that until you know what the brand is!

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:47 AM): Skip - considered writing articles for targeted online mags, newsletters, etc.? (3/25/2002 9:47 AM): I am thinking of starting up a teleclass "university." Have to figure out if it's worth it.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:47 AM): I was in Phoenix a week or two ago and had an interesting question for the audience.....I asked how many people had marketing materials prepared and everyone's hand went up.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:47 AM): :-(....I know...that's my dilemma! Will your Brand X product help me?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:48 AM): Then I asked how many people had a brand strategy and NOBODY'S hand went up. So I asked, "How can you prepare marketing materials without a brand strategy?" That got 'em thinking....

Skip (3/25/2002 9:48 AM): I wish I knew of this site then Rob, as I'm in the PHX area..

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:48 AM): Skip, ROBX will definitely help in that it will show you what to expect from the brand you create. ( (3/25/2002 9:48 AM): Elizabeth, have you converted them yet to putting the URL on all their business materials? Cards, brochures, etc.?

Skip (3/25/2002 9:49 AM): Jonathan, that's part of my plan once the ebook is done...

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:49 AM): Once you get that down, that's where the tapes come in. The tapes actually show you how to implement the brand.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:49 AM): maybe I should rethink the turnaround/rescue concept and repackage it into something growth oriented?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): Elizabeth, I'm personally doing mini-i-legions consulting for the folks who fall below the i-legions minimum, FYI.

Elizabeth (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): LV lady: Two good ideas. Right now we've got nuthin there, so no, but I guess we need to do that too.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Frederick ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): Why turn it into something else, Skip - if you are happy doing the turnaround-rescue stuff?

Skip (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): because that's the other half of what I do is help companies grow...

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): Skip, everyone wants to talk to someone who (1) is no bullshit (2) can make them money. ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): Absolutely. Anytime you get a chance to "toot your horn" do it!

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:50 AM): Rob - I have a related question - how best to approach companies where what you're pitching is basically improving what they're doing - without telling them "Your way sucks"

John Charlesworth ( Professional Web Tracking) (3/25/2002 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:51 AM): I agree with what we said earlier, because it's true: nobody likes to be reminded that they're wrong/a failure. I like to make heroes out of clients.

Skip (3/25/2002 9:51 AM): Frederick: because its a very tough sell and few owners/managers are humble enough to realize they need outside help as things sink around them....

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:51 AM): Skip -- I'd love to talk to you later... and anyone else too. ( (3/25/2002 9:51 AM): Our URL is on the side of our vehicle. Small but there. It took me awhile to stop wondering why people were looking at me when I drove around.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:52 AM): Jonathan, that's a great question. It's a brand thing, again. For example, I work hard to appear knowledgeable and power-packed -- but accessible. (3/25/2002 9:52 AM): My URL is six inches high in the back of my mini-van. Family is so embarrassed. ( (3/25/2002 9:53 AM): Yeah, but I'll bet they're willing to spend the money, Lorilyn!;)

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:53 AM): Rob - but what gets them over the hurdle into deciding "my way's not working - better hire Damn Fine Writing etc."?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:53 AM): I NEVER tell clients they're wrong, but I ALWAYS ask what I can help them with.

Frederick ( (3/25/2002 9:53 AM): Skip - perhaps if you dress it up a something that sells but actually do the rescue - you both will win, huh?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:53 AM): Jonathan... they decide when they're down to their last couple bucks and no customers in sight. ( (3/25/2002 9:54 AM): References and Success Stories help to convert.

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 9:54 AM): Janiene - okay, that's when I demand the first-born son up front :)

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:54 AM): Jonathan, having tangible proof helps: For example, on, we offer advertisers a choice. They can submit their own ad, or we can charge them $100 and do it for them.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:55 AM): Then they ask why they should pay the extra $100. I point to our ad stats, where self-made ads perform at HALF the rate of PM created ads. Nothing like real math to prove a point.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:55 AM): Yes... I must become ruthless -- or at least pro-active.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:56 AM): The only problem is... you can't always determine the financial state of the company by walking in the front door. And, NO ONE will admit they're down to their last 2 dollars!!! But, they won't hire you until they've exhausted every avenue themselves first.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:56 AM): Not ruthless, Janiene, but more business-minded. All of us in the service business like helping people. We do what we do as much out of a sense of accomplishment as revenue, and that's our Achilles Heel.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:56 AM): Janiene, they ALL have Mastercard and VISA ( (3/25/2002 9:57 AM): I think Rob was right Janiene. Don't wait 'til they contact you, go after them.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:57 AM): Rob -- so true. I just want someone to benefit from my experiences and talents.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:57 AM): once it's on the card, let VISA deal with the collection.

Tamra ( (3/25/2002 9:57 AM): Janiene -- ask for a credit check. Talk to your bank manager about what you can legally ask (without getting into privacy trouble).

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:58 AM): Especially in this economy, folks. In case anyone hasn't told you, this last year has been the worst recession in 20 years. ANYONE who tells you that business is good is lying through their teeth.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:58 AM): Yes LVLady... I'm changing my whole attitude and strategy starting right now... no more taking in the strays. (3/25/2002 9:58 AM): Rob, you are the only one I know who has said that. It's so true.

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:58 AM): TWO MINUTES

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:59 AM): Lorilyn, that's why everyone looks at me funny: I'm the kid that says, "Hey the Emperor is naked!"

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 9:59 AM): Hey, if you want the REAL TRUTH, talk to Rob!

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 9:59 AM): Yeah, Janiene, if you're not going to get paid, you might as well take the day off instead of working for someone....even though it feels good to stay busy. ( (3/25/2002 10:00 AM): Have you checked to see if you have a sign on your forehead or vehicle Rob?

RobFrankel ( (3/25/2002 10:00 AM): Okay, you guys, GREAT session today. I feel better myself! have a great week and I'll see you online!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 10:00 AM): Getting chumped feels awful, and doesn't pay the mortgage!

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 10:00 AM): bye Rob!

Skip (3/25/2002 10:00 AM): thanks all! ( (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): Have a great day everybody! Go get 'em!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob... and to everyone. Have a great week! (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): Buh-bye. Thanks. See y'all next week.

Jonathan Cohen ( (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): bye all

Tamra ( (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): bye! see ya next Monday!

John Charlesworth ( Professional Web Tracking) (3/25/2002 10:01 AM): See ya!

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