Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic April 22, 2002

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 8:59 AM): Good morning Rob, all!

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 8:59 AM): We're very punctual around here....

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 8:59 AM): Good Morning!

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 8:59 AM): OK

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:01 AM): Well, the old clock on the wall says it's just about time for yet another Free Clinic! Let the festivities begin!

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:02 AM): We just started a new domain to sell ebooks and digital material at smarter-health.com

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:02 AM): Is Marc still here?

marcrosenbaum (4/22/2002 9:02 AM): Good Morning Rob

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:03 AM): Hi Marc...what can I help you with today?

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:03 AM): I put a link from www.emperorsherbologist.com but any ideas on getting noticed fast?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:03 AM): Ah, the lovely denise742 has arrived....

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:04 AM): Hello, Hello, Hello

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:04 AM): Weber, why a new domain?

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (4/22/2002 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:04 AM): Hello, Hello, Hello

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): We wanted something separate strictly for digital stuff

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): [hi Tamra]

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): Kind of like a mini-site

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): [hi Jonathan]

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): What are we talking about?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:05 AM): Still don't know why you'd do that, Weber. I have lots of digital stuff for sale, but it's all under the same URLs.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:07 AM): In fact, it would add depth to your site as a resource....

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:07 AM): We want to keep the emperorsherbologist for hard product that needs to be shipped, otherwise it may get to confusing, also, we can say things at a strictly digital site that does not promote hard products (supplements) that we can't at a site selling supplements

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:07 AM): Denise, did you have a question I can help with?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:08 AM): Weber, why wouldn't you just have an eh's digital download page?

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:08 AM): Well I'm trying to reach home-based business.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:09 AM): What kind of business do you run, Denise?

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:09 AM): Do you know how I can reach those businesses without the large expense of newspaper adver.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:09 AM): I run a secretarial business.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:09 AM): Mostly for internal reasons, and we are limited with what we say when selling supplements

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:10 AM): Denise do you offer services throughout the country over the web or are you local?

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:10 AM): I have a website. Most of my clients are long distance.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:11 AM): I also have a 24-hour phone in dictation machine, this is a great asset for long distance relations.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:11 AM): Hmmmm, Weber. I'm not sure I see the conflict there...supplements you have to be careful of, but digital downloads are just info.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:11 AM): What kind of clients Denise...specializing in any area?

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (4/22/2002 9:11 AM): weber, does that mean you can say different things on the ebooks/downloads site?

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:12 AM): Anyone who needs office/secretarial support but can't or doesn't need full time workers.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:12 AM): But, the FDA doesn't like you to reference certain things regarding the supplements that you can in a book. Like using certain ones in recipes, etc.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:12 AM): So Denise, you're a Virtual Assistant?

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:12 AM): I have all different kinds of clients, business professionals to authors, to coaches.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:12 AM): Tamra, from my understanding ....yes

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:13 AM): Yes.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 9:13 AM): [weber - can you put an intro to your digital site on all of your outgoing eh emails/invoices/notices, maybe with a free eBook offer?]

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:13 AM): Well, the first suggestion I have for you Denise, is to post an INTRO or a HELP note on FrankelBiz. I know we have VA's on there who are doing well.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:14 AM): Jonathan - I can do that, I was also looking into finding discussion groups so the author of the first eBook can participate and answer questions etc.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:14 AM): How do I go about that?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:14 AM): Jumping on to discussion lists is probably the best cost/result tactics you can find. If you actively participate in the discussion, you'll find a lot of takers.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:15 AM): Denise, sing up for FrankelBiz by clicking the greenish button you see at the top frame of this window.....

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:16 AM): the thing to remember about discussion lists is that 90% of the members DON'T post, they just lurk. Which means you can get in front of them.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

bstuckel (4/22/2002 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:16 AM): I tried to post a message, but had a hard time doing it.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:17 AM): Weber, not knowing the content of your ebooks, I still maintain that offering more content -- even for revenue -- broadens and deepens your URL as a resource. I don'

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:17 AM): lurking here

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:17 AM): I don't recommend a new URL, unless you're starting a whole new business.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:17 AM): Rob: Would you say that stat (90% lurkers) matches FrankelBiz's demographic?

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): We are starting out with a series "Traditional Medical Food Recipes of China for Prevention and Cure"

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): Denise, there are also a lot of lists devoted to sole practitioners, for example, PR consultants, Marketing people, etc.

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): How do I find those people, here?

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): Rob, a fellow web designer did a supplement site which got shut down by the FDA -- so I think weber's right in separating out the stuff that may be iffy. The FDA may not even see his two sites as *enough* separation!

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:18 AM): Hi peter....that's a tough question....we definitely have regulars, but no, I'd guess that most people lurk, but those who do post are varied.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:19 AM): The first eBook in the series is "Beauty, Anti-Aging, Prolong Life Foods and Recipes"

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 9:19 AM): Rob - how many folks subscribe to FrankelBiz, if I may ask?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:19 AM): Peter, we get maybe ten posts through a day, but they're rarely from the same ten people. In fact, I boot a lot of posts from the over-eager types.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:19 AM): Rob - can you email info. on posting?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:20 AM): Jonathan, we have a few thousand, but the response rates make people think we have 100,000! that's mainly because some posts get re-posted on other lists.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:20 AM): Peter - FrankelBiz is a great resource

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): Denise, once you've subbed, just e-mail to FrankelBiz@listerv.robfrankel.com

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): Rob - thanks, that helps me evaluate my response rate :)

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): what constitutes an over eager type?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): In fact, this week's advertiser was blown away....they had been used to buying 200,000 e-mail addresses at a time.

denise742 (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): Well I am submitted, I receive postings from other people, but do not understand how I can post.

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): Rob: If a partner and I have conceived of a "brandable" name for a new business, should we try to obtain a trademark as quickly as possible?

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:21 AM): icode?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:22 AM): Ed, the over eager types send in posts every few days, trying to rewrite the same post and thinking that they can post an ad instead of a business opportunity, I allow one INTRO post only.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:22 AM): Yes, peter, Icode seems to be pleased.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:22 AM): Bstuckel, I wouldn’t

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/22/2002 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:23 AM): Save your money for now and see if it’s ultimately worth protecting. For the moment, you can use an "SM" which in the USA, serves as a sign to the public that you consider it protected and are using it as such.

Del (4/22/2002 9:24 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:24 AM): You'd be wiser to spend the money doing a quick search to see if your brandable name is already in use by someone else.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:24 AM): sm?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:24 AM): Service Mark

Del (4/22/2002 9:25 AM): The only problem with the technique Rob suggested is that a company or corporation could be registered in a certain state and possess a state-level tradename and be doing interstate and intrastate business.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:25 AM): Look at the tag in the top frame under the "Rob Frankel" logo. Big Time Branding has an SM

Del (4/22/2002 9:25 AM): You can check federal tradenames at www.uspto.gov or use marksonline.com

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:25 AM): Jonathan, getting back to the response issue, we've tested against all the big lists out there, and FB consistently outpulls them.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): got it

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): Ah ha! Thank you, we'll be able to focus on other things right now.

j.d.schlesinger (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): That's true, Del. Life is a risk. But as I recall, you can go to Thomson and Thomson and do a state search, too.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): Rob, it also helped that you PLUGGED icode yourself :-)

Frederick (the1960area.com) (4/22/2002 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

Del (4/22/2002 9:27 AM): I wanna say that's a ~$600 fee though.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:27 AM): Bstuckel, don't spend time on protecting your brand name; use the resources to build a strong brand!

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:27 AM): Yosef, that's what sponsors pay $1K a week for. Otherwise, they'd just buy Frankelinks for $25.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:28 AM): Ahhhhh!!!! :-)

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:28 AM): Got it! ;-)

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:28 AM): Yosef, that's the whole point of a Branded Community. FB's know that I try to find suitable reputable sponsors. Sponsors know that approval is worth more response. Everyone wins.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:29 AM): In fact, I don't have their figures yet because the campaign is not over, but so far, every sponsor on FB has made money.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:29 AM): Agreed. Your sponsors have ALWAYS been worthwhile to the group.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:30 AM): Right...and we don't approve that many, although I get many offers. Lots of slimebags out there.

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:30 AM): Rob: You've said, "Doing it yourself works--for suicide"...how soon after we have created the idea for this brand would you recommend talking to a branding specialist? As soon as we can afford it?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:30 AM): Anyone else have an issue? I don't want to hog the time

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:31 AM): Remember my pricing question in FrankelTips a few weeks ago?...

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:31 AM): Yes, Bstuckel, ASAP. "The brand belongs in the business plan." Once you get that down, everything else flows much more smoothly -- and believe me, I've done enough startups to see the difference.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:31 AM): The publisher STILL won't allow me to raise the price where it SHOULD be. Any suggestions?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:31 AM): Repeat it Yosef for everyone else here.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:32 AM): Yosef, how are sales there?

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:33 AM): Thanks, I promise that you'll be the first person we contact...actually, your branding is strong enough that you are the only choice!

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:33 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:33 AM): Aha! It works! (Tee Hee!)

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:33 AM): All of this seems to center around b2b. What about a non tech product to end users, such as golf clubs?! is the point here to build brand through other like communities such as golf bulletin boards and such?

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:33 AM): Sales are OK, but so many people look/sound disappointed when I tell them that the price is only $60. They were expecting something "more valuable". I'll cut and paste the original question in a moment.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:34 AM): no problem. What really counts is that you realize you've got a client who really doesn't want help making money.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:35 AM): Yes, Ed. Branding works equally well in the B2C space. In fact, that's the situation in which Yosef finds himself now.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:35 AM): (Sliding into the room - a better late than never :))

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:35 AM): Pricing often causes people a lot of problems.. and not just the buyers!

Del (4/22/2002 9:36 AM): Rob: Any word on a new book? (Son of Brand-X, heh.)

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:36 AM): Yosef's issue was that his competition was no better -- his product is actually better -- but the company thinks a cheaper price will drive sales.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:36 AM): Brand-X Episode 2: Attack of the Brands

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:36 AM): Del, actually working on it, believe it or not. Very busy these days, though.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:37 AM): With our company, I've realized that it is suicidal to try and differentiate ourselves from competitors on the basis of pricing. Sure, people do buy based on price, but that is not the only factor.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:37 AM): There will be at least one new chapter and quite a bit of revision. Hoping to get better proofreaders this time!

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:37 AM): what perplexes me (and research/time will only tell) is can brand, i.e. sales be built via the web on a non conventional product such as a revolutionary new putter? and can I reach my market from here?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:37 AM): Branding uber alles, Sharon. Always will be.

Del (4/22/2002 9:38 AM): Ed: Videostreams showing product in use?

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:38 AM): Ed - YES

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:38 AM): YES! Ed, absolutely it can be done. But it's not going to happen for free or overnight. people have a misconception that because the web is "free", it's totally without cost. not true.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:39 AM): Rob: Not too busy to accept new business I hope, I'm pointing a company I work for in your direction soon.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:39 AM): It's funny how many golfers there are online.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:39 AM): Peter, remind me to send you a really nice gift, that's great!

bstuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/22/2002 9:40 AM): Thanks everybody, time for class!

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:40 AM): lol It hasn't happened yet. I'll drop you a line sometime though, they're a startup that really need the help with their branding!

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:41 AM): now the trick?! is to reach them, cost effectively, and get sales.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:41 AM): Ed: Definitely. We're all trying to do that :)

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:42 AM): Here's the (rather lengthy) original pricing question (apologies for the lack of proper formatting here in the chat program): "Where would YOU price the program, given the following: 1) The author normally charges (and gets) $250 per person for a 2-day workshop (20 to 40 people).. 2) The main competition (a program called the "see clearly method"), promoted by Mariette Hartley on radio stations throughout the country charges $209.85 (or "3 easy payments of $69.95").. 3) Our program works MUCH faster. "See Clearly" says "8 weeks". We can have most people out of glasses or contacts in only 3 weeks. And it only takes that LONG for Presbyopia (needing reading glasses over age 40). Astigmatism takes about 2 weeks and straight myopia (near-sighted) takes, at most, a week and a half (usually only a couple of days). We had a customer last month who was done in only 5 minutes (20/30 to 20/20). When I did the program myself last year, I paid $39.95. When I started marketing it, I wanted to price it at $89.95 but the publisher, who was selling only handful in a GOOD month, flatly refused saying that it was "too high", so we compromised at $59.95 (actually, I fought tooth and nail with him just to get it to THAT level). I think the low price has put us in the "snake oil" category (our sales level confirms this). After reading your article, I'm more convinced that even $89.95 was WAY too low and that we should price it at or above the competition. Your take?"

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:42 AM): I'm telling you, that if you have a clear brand, really give them something to evangelize, and then follow through with it, you can't miss.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:43 AM): it seems that many of you sell e-commerce type products...anybody sell actual products?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:43 AM): The problem is that most companies -- even me -- can't do their own branding. big mistake to try.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:43 AM): Ed, I sell tapes. Does that count?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:43 AM): And books.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:44 AM): Ed - we do on emperorsherbologist.com

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:45 AM): Ed, "real" products do just fine on the web. but most web-people are under-funded. The rule to remember is that "the less money you have, the longer it takes." And a good branding strategy, implemented with solid tactics can deliver for you.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:46 AM): Denise - please send your contact info to yosef@suddenvision.com. Besides the vision thing, I'm also an account/tax preparer. We MAY have some overlap :-)

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:46 AM): Sort of Rob, but I mean they are still info based. and I 'm not being S.A. here I just want to know if the non info can do it on the web

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:46 AM): Yosef - it comes down to ROI - at what pricing level, will your ROI be highest?

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:47 AM): and you info folks...I would love to have your margins.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:47 AM): The answer is yes, Ed. There are people selling everything from underwear to tons of scrap metal on the web. It's just a matter of marketing it properly and gauging your expectations accordingly.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:48 AM): I'm already giving myself an eye-test with the stuff on Yosef's site :-)

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:48 AM): Ed, if you don't have the right margins, you may be structuring your pricing incorrectly.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:48 AM): Sharon, I agree with you, but the publisher REFUSES to raise the darn price. The rationale is THIS: Since the seminar is 2 days and costs $250, and the tape is only 2 hours out of those 2 days and isn't "as effective" as the seminar (with one-on-one help), the tape shouldn't cost nearly as much as the seminar.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:48 AM): Peter, you're in good form today!

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:49 AM): Yosef, you clearly have client problem, not a product issue. There are some clients that simply don't know how to use the vendors they hire.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:49 AM): Thanks, Peter! :-)

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:49 AM): No I have good/great margins just not as great as you guys.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:49 AM): The eye test disagrees! I'm 20/125 without my glasses on :-(

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:49 AM): Ed - the majority of our clients (we provide email marketing services) sell tangible products. I think that email marketing can be the most cost effective component of product marketing.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:50 AM): Ed, without knowing your margins, I really couldn't say. But getting back to your question, yes, the web can be great for golf. Lord knows there are enough golf sites out there1

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:50 AM): Yosef - are they using the seminar as an upset from the tape? If so, they may have a point. If not, they need to be treated as two separate products with 2 audiences.

Del (4/22/2002 9:50 AM): Sharon: email lists are great. Our list subscribers almost always give us a 5% buy-through rate during our monthly mailing.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:50 AM): well I have gone this far and just have to spend the time and money to do it right.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): Del - love to hear success stories :)

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): Y'know, this chat isn't just great for advice, but I find it actually gets me fired up to go do the work ;-)

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): I agree about e-mail. It is definitely the killer app. But like fire, it can be used for good or evil. It's all in how you use it.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): Sorry, Yosef I meant an UPSELL from the tape.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): With the economy in the shape the media keeps bleating on about, it gets disheartening sometimes.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:52 AM): They're not a client. They're my supplier. They gave me free reign to do just about anything, and they SAY they want to make money, but they just won't BUDGE.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:52 AM): Peter, we aim to please...anyone else have an issue to toss out? I don't want anyone to get left out.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 9:52 AM): Yosef - are there any low-cost add-ons you can throw in, that could give you a reason to convince them to raise prices?

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:52 AM): Sharon - THEY say that they DO use it as an upsell, but I haven’t actually seen them do it. The author lives in Hong Kong and comes to the US on tour once or twice a year.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:53 AM): Peter, to quote a famous president, "I feel your pain." Business is down for everyone. My friends in NYC in advertising are all out of work -- no income since early last year.

Del (4/22/2002 9:53 AM): Sharon: we're thinking of trying an html test to our mailing list (our products are specifically image-oriented). Has your company seen sales differences between html/text mailings (you or your clients)?

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:53 AM): what do think about site evaluators( critique your site and tell you what’s wrong) especially for a newbie?

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:53 AM): Jonathan - Yes, I suppose I could change the "free coaching if necessary" to an add-on called "price includes 4 hours of coaching" :-)

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): Yosef, perhaps you could write a companion eBook, bundle it with the primary product and sell for double price...

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): Jonathan, that's not going to help Yosef. This is a client-management issue, not a product or marketing issue. Yosef's vision client suffers from deafness!

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): He won't listen!

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): Del - I can give you some solid numbers on html vs. text based on our handling or involvement in over 500 million emails delivered per month for clients.

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): good point Rob...

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:54 AM): TUNNEL vision, actually :-)

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:55 AM): What we have found is that you will ALWAYS get a better response rate if you give people the format they have requested as opposed to forcing them to HTML.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:55 AM): Ed, site-evaluators will give you an opinion, just like anyone else. The problem with them is their criteria for evaluation: is it usability? Design? Functionality? Sales?

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:55 AM): Sharon, I wrote to you about a month ago and haven't received a reply

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/22/2002 9:55 AM): Sharon, could you send me your email...I'd like to chat with you later....

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): Rob, do you do that? I mean some opinions are better than others

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): <---Hates HTML mail with a passion, as do the 80%+ people in the USA who are on dial up!

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): For most types of products/services, HTML does little to increase CTR - however, if visuals will assist in the sale, then you might want to consider it as an OPTION

Del (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): I had once worked in an office complex where the next door business was a stereo speaker manufacturer. He asks me to come over and listen to some music. Tiny speakers and huge speakers (5' tall) line the walls and the "viewing" area. I sit, listen and am astonished at the clarity of the music. He points to some 12" x 9" bookshelf speakers and says that's where their coming from.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): Skip - since the video comes with a pamphlet, an eBook would be redundant. You idea IS on the right track, though.

Del (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): $600/pair.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): Rob - its around 50/50 now, not 80% on dialup

Del (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): If I had just seen those without first listening to them 10 minutes, I would have said $100-150/pair.

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): sales..obviously and service

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/22/2002 9:56 AM): just thinking of a way to make it YOUR offer...

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): weber - I apologize. what address did u send it to? I receive over 2-3,000 emails a day :)

Del (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): Point is, buyers need to be informed before they can realize the "value" of a product.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): 50% of the country is on broadband? You're kidding. Where did you hear that?

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): Skip - since this chat is archived, email us at support@listhost.net and ask for my direct email.

Frederick (the1960area.com) (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): Yosef, I have just been to your site - I am interested as a customer - but I cannot find where I can buy the product - Yoo much flash, too much info - Fine , but Where's the beef?

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:57 AM): Rob - it hit the 50 mark in December according to two reports.

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): I'll have to look it up. Actually, I got a canned response that you were moving or something and would be following up very shortly

Del (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): 80% is your number, rob. I've seen major reports citing a 35-46% html subscriber base.

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): Skip - you're absolutely right. I have to make it "my own". Something that distinguishes it from the publisher's direct sales site. The coaching just might do it.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): ß - Also can't stand those self-indulgent Flash intros!!! Grrrrrr!

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): sorry weber, doesn’t ring a bell. :)

Del (4/22/2002 9:58 AM): But the mailing program I'm planning to use is MIME compliant (sends both a text and html mailing and lets the mailing software at the receivers end decide how to view it.)

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): Ok.... I can share some quick numbers on html/txt as far as CHOICES go... For b2b, we run about 40% opting for HTML while the numbers are reversed for B2C

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): Flash sucks if you have to watch it EVERY time you access the same site.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): Wow, Sharon, that's fast!

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): Del - no no, do NOT use that

weber jajagroup.com (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): Oh well. I ma interested in seeing if your service can do something, and If so what is the cost

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 9:59 AM): I SO agree, Yosef.

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Sorry if I seem emphatic, but distinguishing between HTML and plain text recipients on the fly does not work for 70% of recipients.

RobFrankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Okay, well that's one heck of an hour we had there. I sure enjoy these! Hope it helped. I’ll see you all online!

Yosef (SuddenVision.com) (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Denise, are you still here?

Ed Holand (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Thanks rob

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Too bad - I'd like to see some innovative use of Flash splash screens - maybe you could play a game in them :)

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): bye Rob

Sharon Tucci - slingshotmedia.com (4/22/2002 10:00 AM): Sorry, I meant it works for 70%. :)

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