Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic April 29, 2002

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:02 AM): Whoa, sorry I'm late...but it's been one of those mornings....

Judy (4/29/2002 9:02 AM): Hi Rob

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:02 AM): I'll make a note of that, I finally see a path worth investment capital

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:03 AM): Wow, really glad to see first timers here! Who wants to jump in first? Don't be shy -- hardly anyone ever is here.....

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:03 AM): Do you think it's possible for an author to brand?

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Hey, I see Helena is here....glad to see you. I was hoping we would talk last week!

Judy - www.jhtassociates.com (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Weber jajagroup.com (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Hi Dee...I'm in PHX and peripherally involved with the local tech scene...see you posts on azipa and azsof.net...congrats on your fine work btw!

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:04 AM): Dee, absolutely! A brand goes with anything, anywhere. One of the most often asked questions I get is about branding individuals. And believe me, they're the easiest to brand.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): Whoa! No Jonathan!? I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms :-)

Helena Ruffin (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): hi Rob! when do you want to talk?

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): Branded authors- Casteneda, King, Creighton....

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): What would be your suggestions to start?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): The thing is, Dee, is that many people and products have brands innately. They just haven't formalized them in order to get a real revenue-generating plan going.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:05 AM): Any time today, Helena. just to follow up and see how we can work together.

Helena Ruffin (4/29/2002 9:06 AM): will do

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:06 AM): Dee, the first thing you MUST get straight is that when you brand yourself, you're going to piss off a lot of people. Which is a good thing.

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:06 AM): (BTW thank you for your kind words Skip)

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (4/29/2002 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:07 AM): The first people you piss off are those who think they know what your brand should be. Usually those are folks whose own needs are NOT met by your brand, but they have the temerity to think it's YOUR fault.

Helena Ruffin (4/29/2002 9:07 AM): why piss off a lot of people? I've been asked to brand a financial advisor. we're portraying her as half dr. Ruth, half judge Judy.

Frederick (bspage.com) (4/29/2002 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:08 AM): The second group you piss off is your competition, who can't get over why you have your act together.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:08 AM): And the third group you piss off is the old guard. People who don't necessarily compete with you, but hang around the category water cooler, professing to be experts.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:09 AM): I am looking for opinions on what other online marketers would think would be a fair way to make cooperative use of my great new web site glue- The Power of 1% Calculator. It starts a loop that gets lots of reading time for lots of products. Any suggestions? Would co-marketing dilute my branding efforts?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): Okay, Helena, I use "piss off" because people can't stand change and feel threatened by real, true leadership. Anyone who brands himself/herself must base that brand on a leadership level in order to make the brand clear and compelling. And that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): so Rob, how do you brand a person now that we've pissed them off?????

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): Hold on Hal, we'll get to you in a minute

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): Hal, do you have a URL to view?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:10 AM): So I'm not saying you go out there and TRY to piss off people, but you do need to expect that as a result

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:11 AM): If you piss some people off and delight others, you're doing well... if everyone feels indifferent to you, that's when things are really bad.

Frederick (bspage.com) (4/29/2002 9:11 AM): Well, I'm always pissing people off. Am I on the right track?!

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:11 AM): makes sense...

Paul (4/29/2002 9:11 AM): Rob, when a client indicates that branding is critical to their success in a commodity marketplace (their primary product is coming off patent in 2004), but they're unwilling to invest in the $$ commitment...how do you approach this kind of thing?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:11 AM): Skip, the fact that they get pissed off is actually a sign that you've gotten their attention. The next step is to show them that your solution is actually a better fit for them. And that they shouldn't feel threatened because you're there to help solve their problem.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:12 AM): Frederick, don't I know it!

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:12 AM): http://www.advancedselling.com is where the Calculator starts, look for the big 1% button, have your expenses, leads, sales and gross ready to enter

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:12 AM): I agree with Peter. My point is that if you make an omelet, you have to have a few eggs.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:13 AM): Paul, welcome to my world. there are two approaches to this: one is tactical and one is strategic.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:13 AM): nice Batman reference rob...

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:13 AM): Scrambled eggs are one of my favorite dishes.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:13 AM): RE: "pissing people off" controversy gets press, gets attention, gets recognition, gets position

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:14 AM): Paul realize that this is a client management issue. For you, it becomes an ego vs. ego issue. Strategically, your client knows he needs to do it, but his ego won't let him. Tactically, then, he needs some sort of tangible arguments to force the issue to make him feel good about the investment.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:14 AM): tangible like roi?

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:14 AM): but if you are going to be right and everybody else is going to be wrong, you had better make a good case

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:15 AM): Paul, here's one way -- no plug, but you'll get the idea: I tell people to get my book and toss it on the CEO's desk, and ask him/he what he/she thinks about it. Say you found it really fresh and interesting....

Paul (4/29/2002 9:15 AM): actually, that's a shameless plug.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): Most popular things are hated and loved. i.e. Judge Judy, Weakest Link woman, Blair Witch Project.. all really strong brands.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): This way, the client reads someone else's opinion, not yours, which takes your ego thing out of the loop. Also, they read it at their own leisure, which means they take it in more thoroughly and less defensively.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): Paul, ever read High Visibility: the marketing of professionals into celebrities, a great text on profile building.

Marc Negri (marc@l-i-s-t.com) (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): When a third party makes the points that way, you both come to agreement without any significant ego loss, because neither side is giving in. Plus, you both can now rationalize the investment in real, tangible terms

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Weber jajagroup.com (4/29/2002 9:17 AM): Hi Terri

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:17 AM): so Rob, back onto the branding of a person please????

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:17 AM): Paul it's a plug, but mine is the only book on branding that I can use as an example. the rest are real horse-poop.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:17 AM): Actually haven't Hal, I wasn't talking about turning my client into a celeb...just trying to convince him to spend appropriately on his branding efforts.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:17 AM): <--- intent on pissing off the branding world

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:18 AM): Okay, Skip, back to the individual....

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:18 AM): Greetings, Weber, everyone! Has anyone read "Mischief Marketing"? I found it great on branding a person! It's where I got my "trademark hat" idea <grin>

Paul (4/29/2002 9:18 AM): Look, do I need to read your book to get a straight answer Rob?

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:19 AM): Would there be a difference between being branded as a person versus an author?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:19 AM): As for an individual, that person has singularities and aspects that make him/her different. But like most people, they can fear "turning off" people, or more appropriately, "not pleasing everyone." That's what undermines their brand. branding is about leading with a very focused strategy first, then expanding.

Weber jajagroup.com (4/29/2002 9:19 AM): Rob, looks like you pissed someone off.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:20 AM): Paul- they make an interesting point re: making the most of a moment and they provide a chart showing what level of visibility impacts your audience for what period of time, this may be an issue here, but I don't know enough,

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:21 AM): So for an author, you'd want to play up what makes that author's writing a better solution than another's. For example, mystery writers. There's something about a Stephen King that differs from an Agatha Christie. But King is the one whose brand is marketable and distinct

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:21 AM): Weber, I practice what I preach.

Helena Ruffin (4/29/2002 9:21 AM): by guys, gotta go! rob, I'll call you later today...

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:21 AM): lol

Jodie (Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com) (4/29/2002 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:22 AM): Harumph, sure is easier branding King or Christie than my sorry marketing manager on an ego trip - But hey, his white paper on herbicides is fascinating...

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:22 AM): Paul, do you see what I mean? The idea of selling your client on branding is NOT about branding -- sounds like he already knows that he needs it. Now you need some back up to help you close that sale. I'm saying that "the book tactic" works, whether it's mine or someone else's...

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:22 AM): Other than buying your book, can you offer a practical first step?

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

Del (4/29/2002 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:23 AM): authors as solutions? I am with Secrets of High Ticket Selling, but fiction is taste and availability driven, I would think

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:23 AM): Paul: Herbicides.. It sounds like he has a pretty clear niche. Good for effective branding, I'd say.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:23 AM): Paul, just so you know that I'm not hawking books today, you may want to print out http://www.Robfrankel.com/frankelaws.html for free. It's a really great conversation starter.

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:24 AM): btw, I bought and finished reading Rob's book over the weekend...great stuff and really opened my eyes about branding...

Del (4/29/2002 9:24 AM): Rob: To tell you the truth, your book actually tarnished the image I had of you prior to purchasing it...and it was due to the poor editing & formatting of the text.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:24 AM): I've actually tried that approach...I've directed him to Emotional Branding and also Eating the Big Fish, he understands it, he's just not realistic about it...

Weber jajagroup.com (4/29/2002 9:24 AM): Paul, sometimes people need to hear "It " from someone else. I have been in many sales situations where I said something, and it had no result, my sales manager said the exact same thing, and the person bought.

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:24 AM): I have a revolutionary wireless gaming concept that I am trying to market. I have not written any programming--I want to sell only the idea (I'm not a programmer.) Can anyone give me any advice please? Also: Rob-do you think I would be able to sell the idea without a 'name' (i.e. developer creates brand) or should I sell it with a game brand name (i.e. Super Mario.)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:25 AM): Dee, you have to look at your author less as a person and more as a property. I think that helps a lot, because it takes away the insecurities and ego issues. Plus, remember Frankel's DIY Corollary: Doing it yourself works for suicide, but not much else. Don't try to do this yourself.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:25 AM): Paul: Rob might not agree with this, but play on the 'recognition' and 'respect' he could get in --his niche-- by having a strong brand.

Marlene (mjones@sunnysidebiz.com) (4/29/2002 9:25 AM): Entered the room.

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:25 AM): The author is me. But I can be objective.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): Paul that's why I plug my book. It's the only one with one foot in branding and one in the real world of revenue generation and business.

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): I bought the book for the ideas and was very pleased, and I have taken most of the advanced Internet Marketing and Branding courses. Worth the money.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): He can focus on his ego-trip and authorize your work, and you can work on his brand seriously ;-)

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): Or should I have said "The author is I."?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): Dee, that's a good one! hey, I'm a branding guy and I even use others in hammering out my strategies!

Paul (4/29/2002 9:26 AM): Actually, I do agree with that Peter, and need to do a better job of managing his ego...

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:27 AM): Dee: Try.. "I am the author"

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:27 AM): Ah ha, the real issue emerges, Paul

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:27 AM): Paul, play on the Prime Directive: tell him that the world needs to see his brand as "the only solution to his users' problems." that's very compelling.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:27 AM): What did he expect that he is not getting?

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): Rob. - last week, Jonathan recommended that I put an add-on to the vision program to get the price up. You disagreed. I finally got through to the publisher about 10 minutes ago and, after he refused once again to raise the price, he agreed to allow me to use the add-on method to charge whatever I want...

Paul (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): Rob, that'll never make it past their legal department! Isn't that a pisser?

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): So now that I can charge whatever I want, what do you recommend?

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): Yosef - woo hoo!

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): Dee, you'll never see the whole picture if you do it all yourself. Every client/brand I take on eventually says to me, "Really? I never would have though that would motivate people." But it does.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:28 AM): Yosef: Yeah, but you're using the method to control the client to do what you want.. rather than actually helping their brand.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:29 AM): Paul I made a career out of getting things past the legal department. Don't cop out on me now!

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:29 AM): Yosef, test... test.... test...then test again

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (4/29/2002 9:29 AM): Entered the room.

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:29 AM): I don't want to do it all myself, I just want to know enough to determine whether it will work for me, and whether it's something I want to do.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:30 AM): Paul, why would the legal department have a problem with the customer seeing him as the "only solution" to their problem?? that is their perspective - not a legal claim!

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:30 AM): On the contrary, peter. By raising the price, I'm increasing the perceived value to the client to the level that it actually belongs. It's kinda like dating: We tend to avoid people with low esteem. The same rule applies to products/services.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:30 AM): Yosef, I'm betting that he thinks you're adding on more stuff and keeping the price the same. No change here. in fact, now it looks like a desperation ploy.

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:30 AM): Does anyone have any experience marketing "ideas"? Just ideas, plain and simple...

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): What's your product Brett

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): Everything is an idea, but I sell my unique insights on high ticket selling, why do you ask?

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): Wireless Video Game concept

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): Brett - Ideas would be very hard to market, unless they can be patented, trademarked, copyrighted, or protected in some other way.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): Brett, you're not going to have much luck there. Marketing "ideas" is a sure sign that you expect others to take the risks and do the work. These days, you have to have more than that to get attention, including an idea of how you make money, and what kind of money you think you can make.

Paul (4/29/2002 9:31 AM): I was just kidding Rob...I gotta roll, I just finished my lean pocket and should get back to work...Maybe I'll check back next week...that doesn't make me a groupie or anything does it? And by the way, good luck selling ideas...here's a free one - open a brew pub in a Jewish neighborhood called he-brews. Take care all.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): Yosef: I agree about the price.. but the 'add-on' thing was only introduced because your client wouldn't raise the price without it, right? It sounds like they're kinda dragging their feet in the mud and not letting you take control :-)

Paul (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): I was kidding Terry, they don't like the word "only" used ever...

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): No Rob, he specifically said, "let's see how it does at the higher price". He's going to keep the video itself on HIS site at the same price. I'm not concerned about search-engine poaching because nobody looks at his site all that much (that's why I'M there :-)

Weber jajagroup.com (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): Brett check out http://www.BreakoutBusiness.com (Bob Serling)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): Brett, I have a client who has the same kind of product, but he's busy contacting major game players with a document that shows what he's got and how it works to make THEM money.

Del (4/29/2002 9:32 AM): Brett: back in 89-91 I had come up with an "idea" which I put in print called "Sim-Skin" an aerosol spray used to fill gaping wounds and stop bleeding long enough to get the person to the ER. Guess what. Last year it became a live product created by one of the big 3 pharmaceutical companies. Ideas are everywhere. :-)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:33 AM): Paul, you're welcome back any time, pal.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:33 AM): You will have to come to the table with more than an idea, you will either have to develop it or trademark it in a way that really locks it up, good ideas are a dime a dozen, its the effort to develop them that counts

Rena (4/29/2002 9:33 AM): Entered the room.

Del (4/29/2002 9:33 AM): Of course, I didn't get any $$$ or credit. 8-)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:34 AM): Ah, okay, Yosef. Then the first thing you do is raise it up to parity pricing (at the very least). Then compare it to your competition on its own merits and THEN punch it with the extra value.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:34 AM): Del: An idea like that should have made you mega bucks!

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:34 AM): Yosef, are you doing any advertising with this?

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:35 AM): Exactly Rob...I have a document that shows how the idea will make the developer money...Has he had any success?

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:35 AM): Great Idea, Rob. I'll put a comparison box on the site

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:35 AM): Rob, what do you think about co-marketing and brand dilution?

Del (4/29/2002 9:35 AM): Peter: I know. About the same time an acquaintance of mine came up with an idea to use teabags to hold coffee. Within the following year, Folgers released a product line like that.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:35 AM): Brett, it's been very tough sledding, but he is inching forward.

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:36 AM): Yes, I am advertising on some email lists. I tried the teen america show that Ben Cathers listed on FrankelBiz, but I don't think I got anything from it in 3 months.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:36 AM): Hal, Frankel's Tenth Law of Big Time Branding states: There is no such thing as Co-branding."

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:36 AM): Yosef, you should buy TV in some small test markets.

Brett Stuckel (bstuckel@mail.colgate.edu) (4/29/2002 9:37 AM): Thanks everyone, I'm off to lunch

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:37 AM): How about co-marketing?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:37 AM): Radio is the WAY wrong medium for you.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:37 AM): I agree with Rob. Even Amazon's co-branding attempts with Toys'R'Us still feel like just 'Amazon' to customers in the long run.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:37 AM): Co-marketing? Call it what it is: joint venture. But always lead with your brand.

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): Um, with WHAT money? ;-)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): Yosef, and Teens are not your market

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): Rob, back to branding an individual...how does one make the decision to brand their company or the person?

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): Did either lose in the process? Does ToysRUs not own its online brand?

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): especially prior to launch...

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): TV is cheaper than you think, Yosef.

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:38 AM): I learned THAT one the hard way :-(

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:39 AM): It's the PRODUCTION cost that'll get me, though.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:39 AM): Skip, this is a question I get asked a lot. I think it depends on your exit strategy. If you want to sell the company, brand the company. If you don't, brand the individual.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:39 AM): No, Yosef, you can do this stuff on the cheap and make it look good. Trust me on this one....

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:39 AM): Yosef- go digital, Mac, Final Cut Pro, easy, killer!

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:39 AM): How cheap?

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Hal: If you go to toysrus.com, you're taken to Amazon.com. It's co-branded (poorly) but it feels just like Amazon, it looks like Amazon.. and I think that's how most people would see it.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Does it sell toys?

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Yosef, have you done anything with Overture?

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Hal - whaddaya mean?

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): ok, thanks. So then to brand the person, one must create a laser like market focus, come out with strong advice, position etc. to stake out that space?

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Or consider hiring a local film student to film/edit - cheaply

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:40 AM): Skip, if you enjoy being the hands on type, brand the individual. That's who clients want to talk to anyway. But if you are thinking of building the business to sell it, distance your personality from the business. It makes for a cleaner break and higher value at sales times

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:41 AM): Hal is right, Yosef. This is a FinalCut Pro job!

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:41 AM): George - do you mean pay for search engine clicks? If, so, I'm with Rob on that. Not gonna do it.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:42 AM): Plus, air time in little burgs around the country are cheap-o-rama.

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:42 AM): I'm not familiar with "FinalCut Pro". What is it?

toys r us has no online brand anymore, neither does borders (4/29/2002 9:42 AM): Entered the room.

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:43 AM): Yosef, have you done anything with Overture?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:43 AM): Plus, you can stream the video from the site later

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:43 AM): I am thinking of offering a link to my calculator entry to others who market to businesses, put all participants ads in the response links, email, free gift eBook, etc., Would others want to participate?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:43 AM): Yosef, Final Cut Pro is the Mac Product that 10 year olds can use to produce a feature film

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:43 AM): Hal, give us the URL again?

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:44 AM): Yeah, if you want movies edited.. just find a friend with a Firewire Mac and iMovie :-)

Elizabeth (4/29/2002 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:44 AM): Exactly, Peter.

Elizabeth (4/29/2002 9:44 AM): I'm hating my video production co. -- maybe I'll use Final Cut Pro and finish the video myself!

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): I still recommend the film student if you want good work on the cheap :)

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): Rob: Can I put a question out?

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): Jonathan, you're right, but don't forget that it has to be a DEPENDABLE film student. not an "artist" or a "flake"

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): Yosef, Apple/Mac has a Professional level video editing system on a $1800 computer (iMac) and a $1000 software program, add a $1500 DV camera and a $500 sound system and you are in the commercial making business. This is less than the re-editing cost on my video The Gentle Art of First Call Closing.

Jodie (Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com) (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): Jonathan - a *Canadian* film student - even cheaper ;-)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:45 AM): Go peter

Yosef (yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): How long does it take? And don't I still need good lighting for production?

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): The pay per click engines can be tested for a few weeks and if the ROI is positive than you keep going. Pretty good form of testing to see if your product works on the Web, and your ads.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): Yes Yosef, but the secret to production is scheduling.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): And experience.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): Rob: If you have a wide range of skills.. is it better to brand that person as a 'one stop shop'.. or is it better to have several smaller strong brands focusing on one area each?

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): Thank you for your advice on the sales discussion list. You had mentioned book reviews to generate publicity and boost sales of our books-- any other Pr ideas?

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:46 AM): the URL is www.advancedselling.com for the calculator

Yosef (Yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:47 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:47 AM): Interesting question Peter. Much of it depends on what the "one-stop" is and how varied the services are. the further afield the services are, the harder it is to brand.

Del (4/29/2002 9:47 AM): Looksmart pissed me off. Going from paid inclusion to monthly/clicks.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:48 AM): Well I'm both a Perl programmer, and a copywriter.. I feel awkward about putting those services under one brand.

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:48 AM): Looksmart has pi**ed everyone off.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:49 AM): Hal: Gotta love that picture of the squirrel and the nuts ;-)

Marlene (mjones@sunnysidebiz.com) (4/29/2002 9:49 AM): As far as search engines go - ODP - the Dmoz directory listings will get you in Overture among others, for free

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:49 AM): I'm experimenting with Google AdWords right now. These guys are sharp.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:49 AM): For example, branding and advertising are too far apart, so I lead with branding. Then, if anyone wants advertising as an extension of the branding, they see that's offered. But for me to scream, "Hey I do it all! " would dilute the branding practice. This is also why I branded i-legions.com separately, even though it too is an extension of the branding practice.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:50 AM): Yosef, Rob is right on scheduling, that's why you want to do it yourself as much as possible so you can work around weather etc. without losing $, also, you will need to re-shoot and re-edit to tell your story just right and DIY cannot be beat for $ most times

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:50 AM): Peter, your intuition is right, IMHO. Brand the copywriter separately from the PERL, mainly because brands begin in common culture and people don't expect that a tech head can write good copy.

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:51 AM): Dee, I can help you in that area if you like...have a lot of resources and growing experience there....

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:51 AM): Yosef, you'd be amazed at what you can do with a good producer and cheap talent.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:51 AM): Thanks for confirming that, Rob. That's what I find.. once clients get to know me, they ask me to do everything I can.. but initially, they don't 'believe' you can have more than one skill ;-)

Yosef (Yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): got any recommendations?

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): Peter, glad you liked it, prime example of my DIY point

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): Follow those up with cheap TV media and you're rockin'.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): EXACTLY, Peter! Which is why it's hard to lead with one brand, but it makes more sense in the long run.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): Dee, you might also want to talk to Marianne Maffeo - she has over 8000 contacts for PR that she was telling me about and she is here in Phoenix too (you are too, aren't you Skip?)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:52 AM): Yosef, I do this stuff a lot. But I do it out here, not in NY.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): Yosef, after enough tries at content and refinement, you may get well off enough to pay someone to produce what you have proven will work

Yosef (Yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): George, I just checked overture's prices for "Lasik", "Laser Surgery" and "vision". They were: $3.24, $1.31, and $2.00 for the top spot.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): Hal: The only feeling I get about your site though is that your pic should be more prominent and up the top. Perhaps it's just me, but I like to 'see' who the guru is.. makes it feel personal.

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): Thank you Terri and Scott.

Elizabeth (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): I’m NOT recommending my video guys who are here in NY

Elizabeth (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): because they stood me up on Fri. when I was supposed to receive the first cut of the video!

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:53 AM): yes...

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:54 AM): Elizabeth: NY? I bet they're $1000 an hour or something ;-)

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 9:54 AM): Yosef, there are ways to get what you need for less. You just have top be creative with your keyword combinations. It takes some research. How about Vision correction for 16 cents.

Elizabeth (4/29/2002 9:54 AM): No, not that bad at all.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:54 AM): My weakness, I don't think like a promoter enough, I am a closer. I will fix that. I admired the button with Rob's face

Yosef (Yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 9:54 AM): At THOSE prices for clicks, my competition can run me out of business just by clicking on my link several times apiece :-)

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): Elizabeth, I did one gig where we just overnighted CD's of a 30 second spot!

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): Yosef: With Overture's new 'acceptance' policy, I don't think your site would be allowed to hold a top spot anyway (on "Laser surgery" at least) :-(

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): Terri & Dee, I wasn't offering PR resources like Marianne...that's not my thing, but rather methods and tools to get your brand and name out there..

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): Hal, that sure brings us full circle! you should have seen how many people hated my bobbing head at first!

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): I meant thank you Terri and Skip.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:55 AM): Hal: You're probably not keen on the guy (being a competitor) but

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:56 AM): Oops, hit enter.. but, yeah, Tom Hopkins is pretty good on the promotion side of things.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:56 AM): so why did you leave it in?

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:56 AM): Rob - bobbing head I don't mind, but I'm against popups

Dee Power (4/29/2002 9:56 AM): I am open to advice, e-mail address is business@capital-connection.com

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:56 AM): Because, Hal, I knew I was breaking through. I knew that if they hated it, they were reading it. And they did.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:57 AM): I know Tommy, what do you like about his promotion?

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:57 AM): Jonathan: I use Mozilla, so I turned them off. It's bliss!

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:57 AM): Rob is definitely on the money. When I used to work as a journalist, we used to -celebrate- when people complained about a story!

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:57 AM): Oh, it's only an eeny-weeny little pop up.....(TWO MINUTES)

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): branding doesn't mean they have to "like" you personally, Hal - just that they have to believe you are the only solution to their problem <grin>

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): Peter - I use (and highly recommend) Popup Stopper from Panicware

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): Rob - size doesn't matter

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): what about a hand reaching out from my picture panel pointing to their calculator? I have a programmer who can make computers dance

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): That's what I've been told, anyway.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): Exactly, Terri. Although once they read, call or e-mail, they're very happy.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): Hal: Well I'm not that hot on his sales techniques, but his promotion is quite cute.. he makes it seem like he's a 'friend' and he's there ready to help you (for $$ of course ;-)) He appears as less of a business and more of a friendly guru.

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:58 AM): Michael, isn't your nickname "Shorty"?

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Jonathan: Thanks, but I ditched IE a few weeks ago, so I don't need it anymore, hehe.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Skip, me too on the advice! my email is terri@recruit2hire.com - would love to chat with you!

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Depends on who's talking to me.

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Peter, I will take that to heart, watch the site

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Rob, everyone, thanks for all the great ideas today! See you all next week!

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 9:59 AM): Women, mostly, Michael.....<G>

Michael kimsal (michael@tapinternet.com) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Whooo - tough crowd today.

Jonathan (damnfinewriting.com/enlightenedediting.html) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): see y'all next week :)

Yosef (Yosef@SuddenVision.com) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): take care, all.

Peter Cooper (peter@boog.co.uk) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Hal: I will!

Hal Slater (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Thanks, bye

Rob Frankel (rob@RobFrankel.com) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Hey, everyone one last plug: I can answer questions in more detail via http://www.FrankelTIps.com Have a great week and I'll see you online!

Marlene (mjones@sunnysidebiz.com) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Have a great week all.. sorry I was late..

George (williamg@mts.net) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Thanks all

Frederick (bspage.com) (4/29/2002 10:00 AM): Bye all - thanks for a great session

Skip Pratt (skippratt@cox.net) (4/29/2002 10:01 AM): later...

Frederick (bspage.com) (4/29/2002 10:57 AM): Bye all - thanks for a great session

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