Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic May 1, 2000

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:00 AM): Greetings, Rob! (5/1/2000 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:01 AM): hi Cindy :)

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:01 AM): Greetings! I'm actually on time... (5/1/2000 9:01 AM): Good morning Rob and Cindy. Got your affiliate info Rob. (5/1/2000 9:01 AM): Good morning

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:01 AM): Hey, Jozef, thanks much for your glowing review on the book. I posted it on the Raves page, if you don't mind... (5/1/2000 9:02 AM): Hello Jozef, Arden, Terri & Rob (5/1/2000 9:02 AM): Sure, my pleasure, don't be surprised if you start getting a lot of orders from B.C. Canada. I am really promoting you up here.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:03 AM): Rob, your advice awhile back about writing articles to get more exposure was right on target! I got a request today to use one of my articles in a newsletter for 250 credit unions!

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:04 AM): Terrific!

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:04 AM): that should be a request for my permission to use the article <g>

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:04 AM): good morning, James!

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:05 AM): Terri, it really works. And be generous with reprinting. I got the gift of the week last month: AdForce reprinted one of my articles in their printed newsletter that goes to 2800 marketing people!

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:05 AM): Hello, Terri (5/1/2000 9:06 AM): Terri, which article goes to 250 credit unions, we build web dynamic applications for credit unions.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:06 AM): And now, as a follow up to promote the affiliate program, I'm contacting everyone that Alta Vista shows as linked to my site. All as a result of reprinting

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:06 AM): I always grant reprint rights Rob... I just ask them to leave my contact info intact.. That's great about AdForce! (5/1/2000 9:06 AM): Wealth management applications, content management apps, etc.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:07 AM): Alta Vista shows 117 pages worth of links...which should yield about 50 solid contacts.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:07 AM): Jozef it's my article "Passive Candidate - Myth or Fact?" I think that's the title <g> (5/1/2000 9:08 AM): Mortgage cals with web dynamic graphs, etc.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:08 AM): Terri -- Lots of HR issues being discussed on lists like i-sales and i-advertising...

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:08 AM): It's amazing how many web sites have articles up! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Rob :)

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:08 AM): I've been reading i-sales, but haven't seen much yet on HR

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:08 AM): Also, make sure you're listed with all the ezine directories...those guys are very active seeking content. (5/1/2000 9:09 AM): Terri, but which newsletter gets to 250 credit unions? (5/1/2000 9:09 AM): HR is the one place that my own ezine is incredibly weak.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:09 AM): Do I sniff a possible connection here?

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:10 AM): I have that on my list of to-do Rob... I am listed with the main ones, but will be doing a thorough submission to more of them.. Jozef, it's their newsletter - they just want to use my article in it

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:10 AM): Cindy, I have a whole list of articles - some of my own and others from experts in HR - (5/1/2000 9:11 AM): Terri, how about we co-write an article on staffing and strategic planning (plan to staff)?

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:11 AM): Just let me know which article/articles you want to use, Cindy

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:11 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:11 AM): sure Jozef! that sounds great!

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Terri -- make sure your reprint policy is right up there on the page where you articles are indexed. Encourages people to move forward and plants the idea of reprinting in their heads if they haven't thought of it.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Hello everyone (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Okay, Terri. I'll look them over after this chat is done.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Hiya Glenda! long time no see! (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Hello Glenda

Sana (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Good idea Rob - I have it included in the articles right now.. but putting it up front is a great idea

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:12 AM): Hi Glenda -- what's up with you today? (5/1/2000 9:13 AM): Our strategic planning framework has an output section for "web development", but it can be used for staff planning, facilities planning, etc.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:13 AM): Oh just dropped in to see what's going on here Rob

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:13 AM): Hi Sana -- what have ya got today? (5/1/2000 9:13 AM): putting it up front will certainly make it easier for me and for my editor

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:14 AM): I'll get that fixed today Cindy :)

Sana (5/1/2000 9:14 AM): Hello Rob - still struggling with our web site promotion

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:14 AM): ...Then, don't sweat who uses and who doesn't. Most people will notify you. Also, make sure you include free usage for NON-COMMERCIAL use.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:14 AM): What's the problem, Sana? (5/1/2000 9:14 AM): :-)

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:15 AM): ahhh thanks for the tip on that, Rob! I didn't even think of that

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:15 AM): People who want to use the article for COMMERCIAL use should pay.

Andy TeBockhorst (5/1/2000 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Sana (5/1/2000 9:16 AM): Well, remember I was telling you about how we're going to about promoting our office supply site, I am having trouble learning about mailing lists

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:16 AM): They don't have to pay a whole lot ($100, $200, $50) but it should be something.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:16 AM): Not to sound dumb, Rob - but what constitutes COMMERCIAL use - other than the obvious of putting it into print magazines?

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:16 AM): Rob, I have a question. Can you recommend how to best brand and market a website aimed at corporate executives that make financial decisions such as CEO, CFO?

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:17 AM): Jozef - email me later with more info on how we can co-write this article you want to do

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:17 AM): Glenda, it depends on what you're asking the CEO to decide on.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:18 AM): Terri, if they're selling a publication and getting paid for their content, you should get paid because you're supplying that content.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:18 AM): Ok, what if I'm asking the exec to consider using a consultancy on a contingency basis to assist in reducing cost and increasing profit and stockholder value?

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): ahh .. okay, Rob.. thanks!

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): Sana, driving your promo effort with mailing lists depends on the list, its members and your message. Three chances to succeed, but screwing up only one will kill it. (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): Glenda, check out

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): Thanks Cindy, I will

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:19 AM): Jeez, Glenda, can you be any more vague???? EVERYONE dumps that line on CEO's. It's not credible at all.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:21 AM): Ok, so that's considered vague, Rob? Thanks for the tip

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:21 AM): You've got to be way more specific. (5/1/2000 9:22 AM): Glenda, aim the website at strategic planning and financing somehow. CEO's and CFO's love info on these kinds of things.

Sana (5/1/2000 9:22 AM): Who knows the "perfect" source for mailing lists? If such a thing exists in our perfect world (5/1/2000 9:22 AM): hello Arizona

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:23 AM): Glenda, what you've told me so far could relate to automating manufacturing or financial planning...CEO's are constantly getting hit with vague offers. (5/1/2000 9:23 AM): Glenda, I would be more than willing to provide you some content on both.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:23 AM): Sana, how can there be a "perfect source" for mailing lists when each target market is different?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:23 AM): Sana, you mean e-mail lists?

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:24 AM): Hello, Cindy

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:24 AM): Well Rob, this is a cost reduction service that provides audits and renegotiates present contracts in photocopier, property taxes, utilities, telecom, etc.

Sana (5/1/2000 9:25 AM): yes I mean e-mail Rob. Terri, I mean where can I find a good source for almost any target market.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:25 AM): Consider this, Sana: for almost a year before it was published, I had a link for people to sign up for notification of its arrival. Over those months, I got a list of several hundred targeted names.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:25 AM): AAAHHHH, now you're talking, Glenda!

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:26 AM): Sana, you should realize that most list brokers collect e-mail addresses by the boatload. Getting targeted names is another story. (5/1/2000 9:26 AM): Glenda, get in touch with Schooley Mitchel, they are telecom consultants with over 50 franchises across Canada.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:26 AM): Glenda, what brand are you suing for that service now?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:27 AM): OOPS, "using" not "suing".... (5/1/2000 9:27 AM): They will push your product, if it really saves their clients money.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:27 AM): Just their name, which is too general..."Cost Reduction Services"...I'm trying to find a better brand to use

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:28 AM): Sana, if you know who your target market is, you can find out where they hang out and what they read.. then participate in some of the discussion lists and offer something on an autoresponder that they will want - that will build your own opt-in list - especially if you provide another link inside that they can request

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:28 AM): Yeah, the brand needs to be way more active. You have the opportunity to make these CEO's heroes without getting their hands dirty. Collection services have the same kind of issue.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:29 AM): Yes, I realize that Rob...that's why I know I have to do much better than what they currently have (5/1/2000 9:29 AM): Glenda, you should attend the IFA (International Franchise Association) shows. Franchisers love to find ways to save their franchisees money.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:29 AM): I agree. Building your own list is something that happens organically, but really works best. Start today and within a few months you'll have a few hundred names, one or two per day.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:30 AM): I'll look into that Jozef

Sana (5/1/2000 9:30 AM): Terri, good idea.

Yancey ( (5/1/2000 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:31 AM): Great suggestion, Jozef. And realize, too, that many trade associations and conventions are starting to go online. One of my clients,, seeks these kinds of value-added partners.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:31 AM): Sana, I offered to share one of my forms with a group of recruiters.. I had almost 200 requests to the autoresponder I set up within a week

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:32 AM): Hiya Yancey! (5/1/2000 9:32 AM): Glenda, another area for your services might be large property management companies/developers who like to reduce their tenants operating costs (then they can up the basic rent).

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:32 AM): Hmmm...I hadn't thought about partnering with online trade associations and conventions...but am trying to network with Chambers of Commerce

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:32 AM): Terri, what do you do with those names once they request from the autoresponder?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:33 AM): Glenda, Chambers are notoriously S-L-O-W.....

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:33 AM): I'm learning that from experience Rob

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:34 AM): I know advertisers love it when you mention that you have mailing lists. They see it as value-added.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:34 AM): I have another offer for them inside the first message Rob.. they can click on it for another report or form or whatever .. Right now I haven't done anything else, but I just started this a couple of weeks ago (5/1/2000 9:34 AM): not only slow, but also very territorial, can be lots of fun to work with (5/1/2000 9:34 AM): Glenda, the Surrey Chamber is looking at offering virtual members. I am the chair of a special initiative here in Surrey, B.C. (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): you could check out the Internet Chamber of Commerce here in Colorado

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): I would stay away from Chambers. They decision-making process within them are too political and uneven.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): Yeah, but most chambers are barely online, Jozef. What you want to hook into are the guys who are aggregating them for other purposes. (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): Imagine offering your services to Surrey Chamber members as apart of being a virtual member.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): I won't send them just anything - maybe use it one or two times a year to offer something else that is VERY closely related to what they have evinced interest in already

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:35 AM): Even the COC's that are online have barely anything more than a brochure posted up there. (5/1/2000 9:36 AM): Terry Freeman, the moving force behind it, is pretty good (5/1/2000 9:36 AM): Rob, true, at the

Sana (5/1/2000 9:36 AM): Chambers are almost a dead end...from our experience, everything has to go wait till the monthly meetings IF they have time this month or next or the month after... (5/1/2000 9:36 AM): Rob, true, at the surrey chamber, we know that, and that's why we are trying something new and bold.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:37 AM): Arizona, I think you have to attend those Chamber meetings and "schmooze" the right people to get in the "in crowd", don't you?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:37 AM): Yeah. As a general rule, the more meetings an organization has, the less they get done.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:37 AM): If they can use the service as a fundraiser would it not provide some incentive? (5/1/2000 9:38 AM): Terri, I find that you get back what you put in, in terms of time, etc.

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:38 AM): Yes, you do. I've tried it and it doesn't always benefit you.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:38 AM): Also, remember that Chambers don't really DO anything. They're stepping stone to forming relationships. So the only thing you should really expect from a COC is getting to know someone, not getting their business. COC has always been a major myth, in my experience.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:38 AM): that's true of all business, isn't it Jozef? <g>

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:39 AM): Jozef, I never got what I put in at COC's. I have always had much better success networking on a solution provider basis, which, incidentally, is a term I hate.

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:39 AM): When I was starting out years I made a proposal that eventually was given to someone else. Too much of it is the "good ol' boys network" mentality. (5/1/2000 9:39 AM): Sure Terri, I bet the ones that attend this clinics and really use Rob's listserv, are the ones that benefit the most.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:39 AM): It didn't benefit me, Arizona - but perhaps because the business I was in at the time wasn't something that "any" business would use (5/1/2000 9:40 AM): I mark it in my day timer that 9 to 10 is FrankelBee time, nothing else.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:40 AM): That's true, Jozef, but remember we're a different organization, because we make no bones about connecting to DO business, not just hoist a few martinis at lunch. (5/1/2000 9:40 AM): On Mondays of course.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:41 AM): I think AZ hit it on the head. Personally, I just don't fit in with that crowd. And most entrepreneurs scare them.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:41 AM): that's true too, Arizona - it's a shame too, because it could really be an effective way for businesses to get it together and help everyone (5/1/2000 9:41 AM): Yes, I know, in fact, I use examples from FrankelBee situations to get our chamber to look forward and change with the times.

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:42 AM): good point Rob! They are much more of the "corporate world" there.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:42 AM): However, Sana, getting back to the issue, the web is about interactive communities. The most overlooked of those are discussion lists. (5/1/2000 9:43 AM): We are very lucky to have a real forward thinking chamber. They want to become more relevant, they want to provide more services and change in order to do so.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:43 AM): I'd stay away from newsgroups if time is precious, though, because they're not interactive. Lists, however, allow people to get to know you quickly.

Sana (5/1/2000 9:44 AM): Rob, are you hinting that now is a good time to plug in our web URL? ;)

Arizona Reporter ( (5/1/2000 9:44 AM): If you look at a lot of the chambers and members, you find that almost whole families have been apart of these organizations for years! And an entrenched mentality is in place that doesn't accept the latest ideas and changes.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:45 AM): onelist, topica and other public list hosts offer a catalog of lists sorted by topic. Just be careful, because a lot of them are really puny.

Sana (5/1/2000 9:45 AM): You're right Rob, then the million dollar question, opt in or opt out?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:45 AM): Well, Sana, anyone who knows me knows that I never send anything without a linked URL tagged to the bottom of my signature line. It's the single most powerful marketing tool online, period.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:46 AM): Sana, I'd start with opt-in, but I wouldn't rule opt-out (although I consider opt out to be those automatically enrolled, which I think is as close to spam as you can get without spamming).

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:46 AM): I'm in Dallas, which is a corporate Mecca of sorts...I'm trying to devise a plan to introduce these cost reduction services here...and basically what I'm running into have to know someone on the inside to get your message across and to the appropriate people...I know there has to be another way

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:47 AM): I go for opt-in always, Sana - lots of people get mad as it is when they DO opt in and forget they did.. having them "opt-out" is just asking for trouble in my opinion

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:47 AM): Glenda, you're facing the same problem we all do. And the only way around that wall is going OVER the wall. (5/1/2000 9:48 AM): Glenda, do you belong to any referral network groups like BNI? They are very helpful. It takes time but they do bring results.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:48 AM): That means you have to make enough noise for them to notice you. I'm living proof of that.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:48 AM): What's that Rob...going in posing as a singin telegram messenger? lol (5/1/2000 9:48 AM): I'll agree with Terri here. Glenda, this may sound dumb, but do you play golf? It's not a bad idea to find out where a lot of the informal networking happens. People really do respond better if they feel they already know you.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:49 AM): Glenda, yours sounds like a natural for public relations. You should have great stories that get picked up in the business press.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:50 AM): I'll tell you guys right now: people hire me off my site and the book, but only after other people have told them about me. Corporate people would never -- on their own -- seek me out. I don't know ANY old boys in the network.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:50 AM): I don't play golf Cindy, but I should...I know the billionaires do their business here on the golf courses

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:50 AM): I do play golf, but I, um, don't own memberships at the clubs where the real business gets done.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:51 AM): Glenda, our local Chamber held golf tournaments and I volunteered at some of them - met some great people there. (5/1/2000 9:51 AM): Glenda, see if there is a BNI breakfast group in Dallas. If you show up everyone is expected to provide leads. It is very structured and it works. It also helps you polish your sales presentations.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:51 AM): What does BNI stand for Jozef?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:52 AM): I know this sounds really basic, but if you start at the organic level, you'll do great -- eventually. For example, many e-mail addresses on FrankelBiz are from some pretty heavy companies. (5/1/2000 9:52 AM): Business Networking International. If there isn't one in Dallas, there might be something else in Dallas.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:52 AM): Volunteering for special events used to be my specialty Terri...guess I'd better unplug myself from this virtual world and get active again

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:53 AM): just to clarify... I volunteered to hold the flag over the hole on the course *grin*

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:53 AM): These guys are filtering my stuff into their corporate hallways, believe me. And eventually, it seeks its way upstairs. (5/1/2000 9:54 AM): BNI is also a great way to start the day. Very motivating. Lots of tips, etc.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:54 AM): So a stealth approach does work. And if you connect, you have your private portal into that organization.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:54 AM): Is that right Rob? Well, once I get this site completed and branded better...I'll have to make a post t the Bees list :)

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 9:54 AM): Glenda, you can do both as long as you "pick" the outside things that will be of most benefit for your online business (5/1/2000 9:54 AM): All BNI'ers are taught to provide leads. That's why I unselfishly promote the FrankelBees.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:55 AM): Glenda, you got the order right. Make sure your brand strategy is set properly, executed well and then launch! (5/1/2000 9:55 AM): Actually Rob, an alliance between you and BNI would work wonders for both organizations.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:55 AM): Believe me, Glenda, that's the key. When they hit that home page, they need to know they've arrived at the solution they were looking for.

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 9:56 AM): Thanks Rob and everyone

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:56 AM): Jozef, you're terrific. The typical kind of guy we want to do business with -- and will. (5/1/2000 9:57 AM): Birds of a feather.....

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:57 AM): I'm willing to discuss anything that works, Jozef... (5/1/2000 9:57 AM): I am working on getting you up here Rob, working it. Just a matter of time.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:58 AM): Looking forward to it, Jozef. Stick with Michele. She's very efficient. (5/1/2000 9:59 AM): So I have noticed. She is available for others too, right? As a Virtual assistant.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 9:59 AM): Okay, folks, that seems to wrap it for today, eh?

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 10:00 AM): Yup. Found her on the FrankelBiz list at a SF F2F! (5/1/2000 10:00 AM): Take care everybody. See you all next week.

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 10:00 AM): Another FrankelBiz connection!!!

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 10:00 AM): Thanks Rob and everyone! great session today! As Jozef said, this is the one meeting I try NEVER to miss :)

RobFrankel ( (5/1/2000 10:00 AM): Okay, I've gotta split, too. See you all online!

Glenda Yancey (5/1/2000 10:01 AM): Have a prosperous day everyone

Terri Robinson ( (5/1/2000 10:01 AM): Bye everyone! Cindy, I'll look forward to hearing from you :) See ya later, Glenda!

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