Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic May 5, 1998

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 8:59 AM): Hello? Anyone home?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:00 AM): Wow! A bunch of early risers...

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:00 AM): Hi Rob!

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:00 AM): We are working on a new chat page that should be up this time next week....Sorry for the hassles, but people were complaining about Peoplelink crashing their systems..

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:01 AM): Hi everyone

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:01 AM): Any new topics today? Did you notice how inspiring last week's chat was to me personally?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:02 AM): Ira! Nice job on the radio show last week.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:02 AM): Thanks Rob, it was fun... any idea yet which weekend it will be on?

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:03 AM): Hello!

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:03 AM): And where can the radio show be found?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:03 AM): It's called LOG ON USA and is in about 65 markets across the coutnry. Tina, what market are you in?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:04 AM): Right coast - Maryland

Louise (5/4/98 9:04 AM): i don't think LOG ON USA is in my market either :(

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:04 AM): Is it in RealAudio?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:04 AM): In Baltimore, we're on WSER 1550 AM, I think.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:05 AM): Hello Rob and everyone. Hi Ira. Hey ROb how do you manage to write such pleasing articles?

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:05 AM): I know at least one station that carries the show simulcasts in realaudio... I think from a city in the northwest...

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:05 AM): Not in Real Audio yet, as Jaclyn Easton, the show's host, hasn't really gotten to it yet.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:05 AM): I'll check WSER out.. thanks!

Louise (5/4/98 9:05 AM): I am glad you found list week chat so inspriational, Rob, even down to the date LOl

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:06 AM): Jorge, I take the real issues that concern peole like you and me and the list, and then write about them. last week's gig was directly outgrown from our discussion here. Thanks again, everyone.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:06 AM): OH COME ON! you gonna tell me you never had a date from hell?

Louise (5/4/98 9:07 AM): not me:)

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:07 AM): I've already put them out of my mind :)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:07 AM): My Mom used to set me up with women she thought were perfect daughter in laws for HER, instead of potentital wives for me....talk about marketing to the wrong target

Louise (5/4/98 9:07 AM): I have a topic, how about talking about the 'small guy"; small businesses and their marketing options?

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:08 AM): I still have Èm

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:08 AM): Sounds good Louise... and the fact that most of them are targeting geographically,,, and the challenges that come with that.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:09 AM): The small guy is where it's at, Louise. In fact, the working title of my book was "The Meek Shall Inherit the Web". I still strongly believe that.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:09 AM): Good topic, Louise - IMO, the answer depends on what you are marketing - so... what are you marketing?

Louise (5/4/98 9:10 AM): hi Ira, I make and sell luxurious handmade soaps and toiletries

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:10 AM): Here's where the real issue is: A lot of the media hypes the internet for the big boys. But they're the ones with the zillions of duollars thta they can afford to waste....

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:10 AM): good topic louise. I'd like to touch an specific subject then. People who takes their internet presence as amatter of "image" or fashion and don't take advantages of the tools they could use, and finally the boomerang returns and they end by loosing clients (since a web site is the first impresiion for the prospects)

Louise (5/4/98 9:10 AM): and I do most of my marketing online

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:11 AM): Lousie, how is your business going?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:11 AM): A while back the media was hyping the "play on a level field with the big boys' via the internet angle... but that has appeared to die down thought it's still very true.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:11 AM): Louise, do you market to resellers, end-users, or both?

Louise (5/4/98 9:12 AM): I have been considering offering an onlne course about tips and techniques with making and using my products LOL

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:12 AM): One of the few marketing asages that ports well to the web, is "if you can't outsend them, out think them."

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:12 AM): Don't kid yourself, Tina, it's very much a level playing field. It's just that reality is very different from erception.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:13 AM): A lot of businesses do need to start with the "image" via an online "brochure" and grow from there.

Louise (5/4/98 9:13 AM): I mostly market offline to resellers, online to end-users, however, it seems that most of my inquires online, apart from actual sales, have come from people who wish to wholesale my product

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:13 AM): opps. That should have been if you can't outspend them, out think them, out think them."

Louise (5/4/98 9:14 AM): The big boys have branding on their side,

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:14 AM): Louise, if resellers are your natural market, don't fight it. Build your program so that selling to resellers is profitable.

Louise (5/4/98 9:15 AM): they tend to use the web as a forum of info on their products, us little onestend to actually sell our products via the WEb...

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:15 AM): No, the big boys have budgets on their side. You have just as much branding power as they do, it's just that they have the budgets that can fire their messages out faster. Jeez, anyone with enough bucks can BUY a market.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:16 AM): This is the whole premise of FrankelBiz. It's where the smaller guys can compete and win if we network and DON'T buy in to the media myth.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:16 AM): Agree tina. But I Think the entrepreneur should vision his/her website as another office, not only as a brochure. It must have to be that evolution.

Louise (5/4/98 9:16 AM): ok, so without the bucks to BUY a market, how does the little guy go about branding their product via the Web, then?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:17 AM): It's happening and most people don't really see it. For exampe, has anyone been following what's hapening with iCat and Viaweb?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:17 AM): Agreed that reality is seperate from perception... and in the instance of the internet I think the media is not keeping some of the issues that need to be repeated out in the public eye... like the level playing field.

Louise (5/4/98 9:18 AM): can you enlighten us, Rob?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:18 AM): We've gone from "web infancy" to "web puberty". Your pages can't just tell, they gotta sell. Right here, right now.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:18 AM): Link Exchange is a quick way to spread your message at no cost (except some banner space on your own site, which you can create as a special link exchange entry point page).

Louise (5/4/98 9:18 AM): can you explain better, Tian?

Louise (5/4/98 9:18 AM): oops, sorry Tina

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:19 AM): Agree Jorge... it's all in the planning... 90% of the web development companies I have worked with have not led the client through the planning and thought processes necessary to use the web effectively.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:19 AM): Okay, both companies alow you to create, maintain, track, transact almost everything you can sell directly from your browser. Which means you can set up a store with shopping cart and stuff for about $100 per month. Most of us pay that much for hosting.

Louise (5/4/98 9:19 AM): i don't use Link Exchange, never click on the ads.. gadzillions of sites are linked up to it.. I do, however, like the idea of a concentrated link exchange type idea

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:19 AM): Yes Rob. And regular IPPs are offering shopping carts as well. The stuff is moving to money now.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:20 AM): Tina, you're dead on. EVERYBODY wants beauty and techno stuff, but NOBODY thinks about how to make money. WE do.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:20 AM): Yes Louise... people like us live and breath the internet every day... but we can't forget that over half the US is almost clueless and only knows what it reads in mass media and talks about with associates.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:20 AM): I agree with Rob that your pages need to sell, but that doesn't mean you have to *complete* the sale online... depending on your product or service, you may just want to use the Net to get leads, which you then follow up with on a personal basis...

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:21 AM): LE is another rudimentary but good example. It's the power of the little guys -- there are far more of us than there are of the big guys.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:21 AM): Yes Rob... and that's why alot of my time and sales of my services is geared toward patience and education... if I help them understand, they will trust me.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:22 AM): True, Ira, but the majority of product oriented people see the web as an instant global distributional an sales network -- as they should. Louise, for instance.

Laura (5/4/98 9:22 AM): morning all :)

Louise (5/4/98 9:22 AM): yes, I must admit, I have visions of grandeur :)

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:22 AM): Ira is correct... depending on the market, leads from the web are just as good as sales.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:23 AM): On the other hand, people like Tina and me (and you) who sell services have to see the "sale" as being the act of having the visitor contact us to do business.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:23 AM): I share your visions, Louise :)

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:24 AM): Thats true Rob. I think definetely one of the changes the net is doing is that intermediation is either ending or evolving to more efectiveness.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:24 AM): And you CAN look like "the big guys" if your web pages have a "catalog" of pictured items and then "go them one better" like by haveing a (blatant plug) streaming audio description, professionally presented next to that picture. Nobody does that yet. So even a "small guy/gal" can LOOK like a national brand in terms of "hi tech" and high "flash" for presentation, yet it is very easy to do.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:24 AM): But in Lousie's case, she has to take in the big picture: go with the natural flow of things and make money while she's building the biz. In this case, she may have stumbled on to the notion that her EVENTUAL business may be quite different than the one

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:24 AM): But Rob, the majority doesn't always do the right thing -- even businesses that sell products can look to bigger opportunities, such as setting up a distribution network of resellers, that require followup beyond the Web.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:25 AM): Doc and Jorge are right. For example, I'm reviewing a product (that may be one of our sponsors) from Live Picture. It lets you "jump in" to a product and look at it from all sides and stuff. It's involved, but pretty neat. And very affordable.

Louise (5/4/98 9:26 AM): Ira, I think you have hit my goal on the head:)

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:26 AM): Rob.... I think that a majority of the businesses out there need to see the notion that eventually the business will be quite different than it is today... Grow or die.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:27 AM): Yes, I ra, that's exactly what I was alluding to in Louise's case. She may have started out thinking how nice it would be to wrap little ones and twosies from her cottage industry, only to find that she'd end up crating two hundred at a time and making h

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:27 AM): Great point, Tina - although instead of "Grow or die", I think of it as "Be prepared for change, or get out of my way" :-)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:28 AM): ..making hundreds

Louise (5/4/98 9:28 AM): hey Rob, your messages are getting cut off?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:28 AM): As the type of person that NEVER buys from catalogs because I have to touch/feel/see a product from all sides, something like Live Picture may well change my buying habits, and those of consumers like me.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:28 AM): Yet, Ira & Tina, most of us can see that in others, but have a tough time adopting that to ourselves. I know I do.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:29 AM): Louise, my fingers are slower than my brain....

Louise (5/4/98 9:29 AM): you are right, Rob, I started out thinking how nice, a cottage industry I can manufacture soaps from home;

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:29 AM): Ooo.. Ira... your right. I like that :)

Louise (5/4/98 9:29 AM): I have 2 employees helping me to package the products LOL

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:29 AM): Live Picture (in this context) SOUNDS like a step toward VRML (Virtual Reality Markup Language), which is definitely the future of the web.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:29 AM): Another issue that is important for small businesses - to compete with the big guys who have big budgets, it helps to have some sort of budget to work with. Your time can go a long way, but no one can do everything on their own.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:30 AM): I can tell you that you never know where the "currents" of business take you. Four yeras ago, I was an ad guy. Today, I'm...well, I sure not just an ad guy.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:31 AM): That's true, ira. Which is why smaller guys have to bend the rules and partner wherever they can. Each of us has invested in our own turf, which can save the next guy some cash if he/she is willing to trade.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:31 AM): Well last week I was complaining about working with some little clients. There are others who vision the web as a true tool to get to new markets. Your example made remember them Loise.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:31 AM): The trick is NOT trading away the whole store. trade doesn't pay the rent, but it does help you get started.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:31 AM): Your right Ira There are alot of "one man bands" out there and it can be a sleepless nightmare, no one can do everything on their own, and having a budget is like having a business plan on the $ end... makes too much sense.

Louise (5/4/98 9:32 AM): YOu are right, Ira, but I am at that point where I still have to do most of it myself, all the marketing and manufacturing.. I am still just squeaking a living at this, as I am sure a 'lot' of the little guys are out there too..

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:32 AM): There's also the matter of expectations. Being smaller with less budget means you can't gro overnight. And it's really frustrating to read in the media about people who supposedly do.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:32 AM): Combining in partnerships with others can make for interesting possibilities. You contribute your specialty, they contribute theirs, and together, you have a new business that does all three or four or five things, and thus is something new.

Laura (5/4/98 9:33 AM): or even worse... growing so dang fast you can't keep up with it :)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:33 AM): This is the on instance where I advise people to IGNORE what they read and concentrate on what they do.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:33 AM): The guy from NUA wrote an article of the sving costs of a transaction via the web. It pointed that you maybe save some bucks in logistic but you have to invest in building relationships with clients (visitors). Did anyone read it?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:34 AM): Strategic alliances and sub-contractor agreements have been a big help to many a small business... that includes for marketing.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:34 AM): Ture Doc, but I'll let you in on a secret that I found out: most "partnerships" don't really work the way you'd expect them to. But they DO end up as great referrals, that DO get you great business.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:35 AM): LIFE never ends up the way you expect it to. Life is what happens on the way to getting what you thought you wanted.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:35 AM): I used to sit by the phone waiting for my "partners" to call me with leads, but it doesn't work that way. Making contact, staying in touch, and sending leads to people keeps you in front of them and eventually, you hit big.

Jim Quirk (5/4/98 9:35 AM): Doc, I agree wholeheartedly. What better place than the web to make strategic alignments?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:35 AM): So true Doc.. . So True.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:36 AM): Which brings us to....PUBLICITY!!! You can't get enough of it.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:36 AM): Tina. exactly, I am currently trading site re-design and marketing for video hosting services.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:36 AM): No Jorge, I missed it. But I know that HP save $90 million its first year from its web site alone.

Lynn Hoopingarner (5/4/98 9:37 AM): Speaking from experience, you definitely get what you give. If you are not actively trying to help your partenrs how can you expect anything in return?

Laura (5/4/98 9:37 AM): I never thought I'd complain about publicity... but every time my site gets mentioned in the press, I'm sooooo slammed with email and questions, I can find myself falling behind by weeks from a single mention!

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:37 AM): What is "publicity worthy" these days in terms of activities on the web that will get you noticed without getting you arrested, Rob?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:37 AM): So...what are people doing for FREE publicity?

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:38 AM): Free publicity... BIG TOPIC!

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:38 AM): Believe it or not, Doc, I find that it's not WHAT you say as WHERE you say it. Start with the media that's dying for news stories...and there are a lot of them.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:39 AM): The biggest mistake people make with publicity is exactly the same thing they should look for in their target media: self interest.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:39 AM): Networking can get you free publicity, and trade opportunities, and leads, and referrals, and sales...:)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:39 AM): DON'T write about how wonderful you are. Talk instead about a current trend or some other news OF WHICH YOU ARE A PRIME EXAMPLE.

Laura (5/4/98 9:40 AM): this is off topic - but I wanted to mention this service I found before I forget to mention it :) If you want to run an email discussion list, or send a newsletter out, check out http://www.makelist.com - way cool, very efficient, and best of all - FREE. (By the way, newsletters are terrific publicity!)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:40 AM): Then tell that story to a medium whose sole intrest is in that category.

Louise (5/4/98 9:40 AM): can you explain further, Rob?

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:40 AM): <b> .</b>

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:40 AM): It's not only what you say, but how you say it, and to whom that can get you free publicity.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:40 AM): Television news is now 3 hours a day for local stations, they are so desperate that when a kid stabs his younger brother (in the hand) they put it on as if it were a "blood bath at a bank robbery". It gets silly how blood thirsty they are, but I don't want to stab anyone, I just want THE INDUSTRY to pay attention, and that kind of TARGETED publicity is very tricky, unless you have some secret to reveal?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:41 AM): Tina is right about netowrking, too, although I never have gotten a single lead from an "orgnized group" (other than FrankelBiz, of course). The Cahmbers of Commerce all turn and run when they see me coming.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:41 AM): makelist.com... got it... Thanks Laura!

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:41 AM): I recomend it to you all:" Building Brand: Brick by brick" :http://www.clickz.com/1998/042898.html

Louise (5/4/98 9:42 AM): There is a lot of mention in my area about the handmade soap business, how do I get ahead?

Michael Kimsal (5/4/98 9:42 AM): FREE publicity - one of my clients is a local concern, so we targeted local papers.

Michael Kimsal (5/4/98 9:43 AM): Although it was not *overly* beneficial, press releases and phone calls to local papers and magazines proved somewhat useful, didn't take too much client time (or mine) and was free.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:43 AM): Again, most of us see ourselves as "the little guy" with no story to tell. But I called the Los Angeles Tiems one day to tell them about this "whole army of online markeitng firms". It ended with my ugly mug on the front page of the Business section and

Michael Kimsal (5/4/98 9:43 AM): We found that many of the smaller papers (which did reach a sizeable number) were very hungry for stories on current (and local) uses of the internet

Laura (5/4/98 9:43 AM): >Tina, makelist.com has seriously saved my sanity with sending my (33,000+ subscriber) weekly newsletter :)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:43 AM): color shots of ads I had done in the center spread.

Michael Kimsal (5/4/98 9:43 AM): (HI doc)!

Louise (5/4/98 9:44 AM): I just to to come up with some inspiration that will put 'my' soap ahead of the others here in my market, but don't we all want that too?LOL

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:44 AM): Doc... I've found it's almost like winning a client over... stay in touch with a reporter (or someone inside) until they see the value of what you have to say... and publicity stunts, when they happen, are just icing on the cake for the insider who knows you already.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:44 AM): Also, EGO plays a big part here. Big time publications have big time writers with HUGE egos. These guys LOVE to "discover" little people (g). Might as well play to them.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:45 AM): No, Lousie, but if it were to get out that Madonna ordered from your site (assuming she uses soap), it would probably be newsworthy for your business.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:46 AM): You got it Rob!

Louise (5/4/98 9:46 AM): I think I may i may be getting an idea, Rbo

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:46 AM): I just realized that I mistyped Louise's name as "Lousie" Yeesh.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:46 AM): I've gotten customers from both online and offline networking... online, you have to find the right groups for your product/service. Offline can have more to do with geography - with regard to Chambers of commerice, I think it depends on how well your local chamber is run.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:47 AM): THEN you gotta figure out who would be interested in "Soap to the Stars"! Oh, like E! Channel's eonline.com. They'd eat that up.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:48 AM): Also realize who you are targeting and what they do... If 90%+ of my market likes to golf, I'm on my way for lessons :)

Louise (5/4/98 9:48 AM): so, how can i best use my local CoC, then?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:48 AM): Yeah, Ira, offline is part of the mix. And the fact is a big offline hit with STILL out draw online anything. More people still watch Hard Copy than CNN online.

Louise (5/4/98 9:48 AM): this might work, guys, I do live in 'Hollywood North" :)

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:49 AM): Louise... most CoC's have a "women's" grou

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:49 AM): Yes. Ira offline has to do almost exclusively with geographic proximity, at least in my case (web marketing). There is a whole market to be explored there.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:49 AM): oops... group that gets together... am I right that a majority of your target market is women?

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:49 AM): Okay, I'll go on record here: I hate the COC. They're local. They're slow. They're expensive. You invest all this time to do business with little businesses who have no interests beyond your zip code. You now have the means to go global. So go!

Louise (5/4/98 9:49 AM): thanks Tina, am a member with the local CoC women's network, they do buy a lot fromme :)))

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:50 AM): Louise, that depends on what your CoC does... I'm speaking on a panel later this month at mine, I also attend the monthly after hours networking events, which are attended by at least a few hundred people each month, of the 3000+ members of the Providence CoC

Michael Kimsal (5/4/98 9:50 AM): But if you're audience is primarily local, should you still aim to 'go global'?

Louise (5/4/98 9:51 AM): tina, my market is universal, assuming guys use soap too LOL, and I find my soap sells well to both sexes, but the toiletries only to the women and kids<what's new>

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:51 AM): Ok! Then lets extend that both geographically and electronically... Network online with women the way you do with the CoC group, and let your sig.file sell you!

Louise (5/4/98 9:51 AM): But that is standard for my biz

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:51 AM): The web has worked for me personally by allowing others around the word to see my work. It allowed me to transcend the limits of my neighborhood, which is why we service clients from Denmark, Texas, Canada -- as well as just down the street.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:52 AM): Yeh... but you gotta start somewhere... take on market step at a time (as a small business)

Louise (5/4/98 9:52 AM): thanks, Tina, I own 2 mail discussion lists .. it is nice to see I am doing stuff right :)

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:52 AM): Tina really gets it. EVERYONE should have a hyperlinked signature file.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:53 AM): Michael, if you're local, you can use the web, too. But you may find you get interest from outside your area.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:53 AM): Great... Keep up the good work Louise.

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 9:53 AM): (funny little aside - just heard a radio commercial that had a woman named Tina leaving a guy named Ira a message on an answering machine - was that you, Tina? ;)

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:54 AM): Louise, on the celebrity front, see if you can contact Lynn Carrow in Vancouver, tell her I mentioned getting Gordy Ruddy to carry your soaps in his stores in Jasper, and offer her a case of the stuff. She is THE biggest casting agent in W. Canada and might be able to put you in touch with stars if she likes you/your soap.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:54 AM): Lousie, do you pitch the business to your mail list?

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:54 AM): you can also get free publicity by creating controversy. challenge the percerption of a well known product or tradition or company

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:54 AM): Uncovered again :)

Louise (5/4/98 9:55 AM): i am giddy with excitement, thanks Doc!

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:55 AM): Also, Lousie, if my latest client goes ahead with her site, we'll talk. You're a perfect match.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:55 AM): Right, jorge. In my next column for ZD, I kick Microsoft's butt about their horrible branding.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:55 AM): Laura, what is your newletter about that you have built up 33K subscribers?

Louise (5/4/98 9:55 AM): i pitch the base product to the list, I really need to start an alt.fashion. newsgroup LOL

Torri (5/4/98 9:56 AM): Whew...boy am I late

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:56 AM): Jorge, while it's true changing perseptions over controversy can work, and work darn well, be prepared for damage control if things get outa hand... can't predict all market responses.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:56 AM): well done rob : )

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:57 AM): True, Tina, but even bad publicity is better than one.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:57 AM): Louise, patience and caution, don't rush into "exploiting" the relationship with Lynn to get to the celebs, you have to CULTIVATE a friendship/relationship. Friends help friends, and Lynn is that kind of person.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 9:57 AM): Yep, yep, yep, yep.

Doc Williamson (5/4/98 9:57 AM): Hi Torri, Hi Mike.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:57 AM): Torri, this is the last time you're late. While everyone else goes out for play time, you have to stay and clean the chalk board...

Louise (5/4/98 9:58 AM): hey, Rbo, got me interested in your latest client.. ouch those typos!

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:58 AM): yes Tina. If you gong to make its because you think your product or service really can compete with others.

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:58 AM): Right Doc. (ONE MINUTE)

Torri (5/4/98 9:58 AM): (hanging head in shame) OK...

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:59 AM): RBO is sorry for mistyping Lousie's name. There.

Jorge R (5/4/98 9:59 AM): to the corner, torri :)

Torri (5/4/98 9:59 AM): Hi Doc...wish I could come up with a funny comeback...

Rob Frankel (5/4/98 9:59 AM): Okay you guys, hang out as long as you like. I believe we can log this session for later retrieval. Lotta good stuff today. See you online!

Jorge R (5/4/98 10:00 AM): Hey tina do you use icq? I'd like to exchange numbers..

Louise (5/4/98 10:00 AM): all right! you have a good week, everyone1

Ira Pasternack (5/4/98 10:00 AM): Great chat, once again! Seeya all next week :)

Jim Quirk (5/4/98 10:00 AM): Thanks Rob, bye.

Tina Thomas (5/4/98 10:00 AM): Later Rob... Later gang... I've yet to intro myself to the "Frankelbee" list and will do so today... thanks for the great discussion!

Jorge R (5/4/98 10:01 AM): Bye everyone!

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