Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic May 8, 2000

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:00 AM): Greeeeetings everyone! Coffee's strong, caffeine's kicking in...

Arizona Reporter ( (5/8/2000 9:00 AM): Terri, Patti....HI!!!!

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): Greetings Rob

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): Hey, Gary! Joel! What's up with you? WE always let the new guys go first..... (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): hello Rob

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): I feel like I know half of you already I've read so many archives (5/8/2000 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Patti, you can jump in, too....

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Hi Patti, did you know that you have to have the www for to open? You can use a script to fix this.

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Hello from a newbie. Hi, Rob...(We talked a week ago) (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): I love walking into a room and having my reputation precede me, Gary...

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Hi Steve! Glad you're checking in....who's up first? Don't be shy....

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Gary is doing his homework.

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:02 AM): Entered the room. (5/8/2000 9:03 AM): Good morning, everyone!

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:03 AM): I've just read MYSS and have realized that my site is not designed to make the sale and...

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:03 AM): Andrea -- singing in under your real name? How daring!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:03 AM): Gary, reading Ken's book? He's a great guy.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:03 AM): so I'm going to redesign it as such. But I figured the first thing I need is a brand.

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): I'm a marketing strategy guy. Been writing business plans for a wide range of Internet businesses lately

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): Hi, Yeah, no more lurking.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): I offer NFL handicapping and there's many players out there. (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): thanks Yancey.. that is my server that does that is the pleasures of a freebie arrangement :)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): So what is CompuPick supposed to be (I haven't been to the site)

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): players = competitors

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:04 AM): I'm always looking for ways to add more value to my clients

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:05 AM): What's your revenue strategy Gary? (5/8/2000 9:05 AM): Rob, "@vermillionhr" is as much (or more) my last name as my dad's last name...

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:05 AM): NFL Handicapping Gary? I deal primarily in Sports Collectibles... any merchandising on your side?

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:06 AM): Sell my picks and get repeat business every year, eventually expanding into other/all sports

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:06 AM): So how does the site make money? Subscription?

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:06 AM): This is the first time I've done this. I am an event planner in LA and was looking for help expanding my business. Any suggestions.?

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:06 AM): Andy, no merchandising. And after reading Evoy's book, I don't think I want to include any. (5/8/2000 9:07 AM): interesting sponsor you announced this am Rob... just been reading through the first lesson .. interesting stuff

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:07 AM): Hold on, let's work with Gary first.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:07 AM): Good, Patti. He's a nice guy -- and his grandfather founded Manpower -- not too shabby....

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:07 AM): I agree, autographs are a scary business right now... we do mostly trading cards, etc.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:08 AM): Rob, yes. $150-$250 per season - I haven't finished making any pricing structure changes

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:08 AM): Gary, what are people paying you for -- and how?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:08 AM): How many subscribers do you have?

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:09 AM): they pay with credit card. I tell them the teams to bet on so they can win some dough.

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:09 AM): How do they know you are a successful handicapper?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:09 AM): Do your subscribers renew their subscriptions every season or do they come and go?

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:09 AM): Subscribers? Not many. 50. My conversion rate is miniscule.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:10 AM): Do you have a newsletter? You should...

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:11 AM): A half-dozen renew. As I start predicting more winners, I should get more repeat business.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:11 AM): Newsletter: Yes. Started it several years ago and have 2500 subscribers.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:12 AM): Gary, you need to structure a plan with a specific goal in mind. This can be a good business, but you need 1000 subs, not 50. You're right, you need a brand, but it's got to be something that speaks to these guys, as the banner below suggests: turn them into evangelists.

Guy - (5/8/2000 9:12 AM): Gotta go, see everyone next week. Bye from Washington State

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:12 AM): Andy: I have a couple handicapping awards and post all previous results on my site (some years are not-so-great)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:13 AM): Your newsletter should have a much higher close rate. Are you publishing your pick wins and percentages there?

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:13 AM): Bye Guy

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:13 AM): Yes.

Claire (5/8/2000 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:14 AM): Gary, awards are for suckers. They're only as good as the people who award them and they're no good at all for what's happening today. They only tell you what happened last year.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:14 AM): I give out one or to free picks per week and try to include some general gambling tips as well.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:15 AM): I suspect that your LACK of brand is most evident in the disconnect between your newsletter and your site. What's different about your service from your competitors?

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:15 AM): Gary, what makes you the only solution in the world for these gamblers?

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:15 AM): How do you target and attract subscribers?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:15 AM): Also, online casinos are very generous with their ad dollars. But before you approach them, you have to have your ducks in a row, brand-wise....

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:16 AM): I have two unique features: I use neural networks to do all my handicapping and offer a money-back guarantee

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:16 AM): (Dr. Steve has been reading up!)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:17 AM): Gary, look at your two attributes you just wrote -- only one is a "benefit" to your consumer; the other sells from failure....

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:17 AM): Ideally, I'll have a great winning percentage at some point. I want to say this season but I say that every season.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:17 AM): NEITHER of them serve to motivate the buyer.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:18 AM): damn you're good

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:18 AM): I studied neural networks; this could be a great feature if people understand what neural networks do: high-tech, artificial intelligence techniques used to identify patterns to subtle to see alone.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:18 AM): Overall, Gary, you have to jump into the shoes of your prospects and think from their perspective. They've got to say, "I know Gary charges more, but it's worth it because ______________."

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:18 AM): I mean "too" subtle to see alone...

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:19 AM): I have a good reason to believe that I'll do extremely well this season.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:19 AM): And neural networks may be just ducky, but it's a complicated term. You're asking them to learn too much when all they really want is who's gonna win in the fifth at Belmont.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:20 AM): Andrea, did you have a question? We gotta move along here....

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:20 AM): I'm also seeing what you said: I polled my subscribers upon signup and almost 90% said "Winning Consistently" was of paramount importance.

Arizona Reporter ( (5/8/2000 9:21 AM): Gary, You need to say "I WILL do extremely well this season"

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:21 AM): Listen to them, Gary, but remember you're there to lead them, not vice versa. It's a fine balance.... (5/8/2000 9:21 AM): Andrea, have we met? I'm in LA too. Consider advertising to HR professionals with PIHRA. ( Contact Catherine and tell her I sent you.

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:21 AM): Yeah, been in business for 6 months. Jammed in the beginning, now totally slow. Did the website, reregistered with the search engines, cold calling and trying to get as many free links as possible. What else to generate business? Any networking opps.?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:22 AM): You both met at our L.A. F@F last year...

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:22 AM): Andrea, do you have an affiliate program? Your pricing structure should account for cutting in agents -- generously. (5/8/2000 9:23 AM): I knew that name sounded familiar. we need another F2F to refresh my memory!

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:23 AM): yeah, Rob do you want to organize?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:23 AM): In the first week I announced, over 60 affiliates signed up for The Revenge of Brand X affiliate program, because I pay $8 per book....

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:23 AM): AZ: I used to say that, until my wife stated complaining. :)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:24 AM): That was a key consideration in pricing the book.

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:24 AM): I'm in L.A. too. I don't know what an F&F is, but am interested...

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:24 AM): Nobody else can match that commission.... (5/8/2000 9:24 AM): actually I signed up because you're good Rob <g>

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:25 AM): Actually, Joel, it's F2F for face to face. We sometimes get together for dinner... (5/8/2000 9:25 AM): I've met you in person, too, Joel. Also saw you at iWorld, right?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:25 AM): Yeah, Patti, I saw that! Thanks! It's an easy way to make back the $ you spend on the book plus more.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:26 AM): Andrea, how is your distribution set up? Does your pricing include that stuff?

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:26 AM): Rob, do you have to collect SS# or Business ID for reporting purposes with your affiliates?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:26 AM): What' the site URL Andrea?

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:26 AM): Thanks. Right JoAnna, we met at the Wed nite group a couple of months ago, too.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:27 AM): Yeah, we have the tax ID numbers

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:27 AM): Rob, I provide 10% commission for all referrals. Also, always let vendors know when I refer them business.

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:27 AM): thanks

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:27 AM): Ten percent of what, Andrea? How much does that come to in $?

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:27 AM):

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:28 AM): I'll tell you right now, Andrea, 10% doesn't excite people...

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:29 AM): 10% of my fee and my fee generally is %15 of total budget. Therefore, dropping my name can get me a $3000 fee and the namedropper 300 bucks.

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:29 AM): Somehow, I recall somewhere that Jay Abraham mentioned 25

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:30 AM): Jay Abraham mentioned 25% as a benchmark for a contingency fee...

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:30 AM): Gotta run everybody... incidentally, take a second and go to

Andy TeBockhorst (5/8/2000 9:30 AM): Very funny!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:30 AM): It's loading right now.....VERY vague, doesn't say what you do.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:31 AM): Well, Steve, I can tell you that with my book, I could say 22%, but that's kind of dopey. I prefer to do the math for them -- $8 per book, knowing that the book is 36.95. They can see it's a big chunk in real terms.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:32 AM): Also, Andrea, what are you pushing here Andrea, your table cloth or party planning? (5/8/2000 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:33 AM): party planning. Haven't approached the linen on the website.

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:33 AM): Good doctors don't care about percentages either, just total $/hour I can pay them. (5/8/2000 9:34 AM): with my referrals, I also do the math. I say as soon as the client pays ___ you get ___ . it comes out to about 15% or 25% depending on the company..

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:34 AM): Percentages are fine for comparing several similar plans but not good for "what's in it for me."

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:34 AM): Andrea, you should also know that search engines HATE framed sites. Your first page should be non-framed so that the automated engines can find your keywords.

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:35 AM): I didn't know that about frames and search engines...great pearl!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:35 AM): Yeah, I want to know "cash in pocket". Anyway, Andrea, your brand is very vague. The site is very vague. It doesn't say what you do...

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:35 AM): what is non-framed? (5/8/2000 9:35 AM): no frames (5/8/2000 9:36 AM): you also want to make sure that the first text that the search engine encounters on a page some search engines turn that into the descriptive part of your listing .. so you don't want it to be your menu

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:36 AM): It's true, Steve. That's why all the sites I design open with a splash page that is non-framed. But most people don't notice because the splash page mimics the framed layout.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:36 AM): Correct! Welcome Bonder! What can I do for you today?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:37 AM): Patti is also correct. text plays a major part in "keyword density" algorithms that determine ranking... (5/8/2000 9:38 AM): We met at an IPN even a few months ago in Pasadena. My company writes and designs interactive entertainment for the web.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:39 AM): IPN? Now there's a branding story. Don Baarns asked me to re-do their brand, which is why they are now Tier One Networks....

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:39 AM): "Where professionals connect." (5/8/2000 9:39 AM): ;-) (5/8/2000 9:40 AM): Our latest project is "KISS: Immortals" which is playing right now on In May it will roll out to over a dozen additional sites.

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:40 AM): Nice.

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:40 AM): General question for all: If Starbucks is such a strong brand, it's the next best thing to religion, how did it do that? I mean, Starbucks as a name doesn't convey anything about coffee or even what novel it came from... (5/8/2000 9:40 AM): Oh, so Tier One is your brainchild, eh? ;-)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:40 AM): Claire, is there something I can help you with?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:41 AM): Tier One is indeed. In fact, it's cited as a before and after case study on the site.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:41 AM): Don's been through three names in one year now. This one oughta stick.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:41 AM): Hope I'm not overdoing my welcome or stepping on Claire. Let's see if I got this straight: I should say "We can make you money" because of the NNs and you're protected by the guarantee?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:42 AM): Got all three domain endings plus the hyphenates with no problem. All available.

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:42 AM): If I am, just tell me to sit quietly... (5/8/2000 9:42 AM): Rob, I have a question when it's a good time to present it.

Andrea Schall (5/8/2000 9:42 AM): Thanks, got to run.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:43 AM): Until Claire jumps in, Gary, it's got to be "you'll win with Gary" first. Then, if they're still with you, "here's why your chance of winning with Gary are better"....

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:43 AM): Go ahead Bonder...

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:43 AM): OK. Got it! (5/8/2000 9:43 AM): (Name's Bruce, btw)

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:46 AM): Rob, we got our first sale last week! (Sharing the excitement.)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:46 AM): Go ahead Bruce!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:46 AM): Way to go, Yancey! (5/8/2000 9:46 AM): is it me or has it gone very quiet here

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): Bruce was supposed to ask something, but maybe he crashed....

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): Did we lose Claire? (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): quick send him more coffee (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): My company wants to take its expertise in interactive entertainment and create a TV show/online community/gaming world. I've got one major partner, but I'm looking for television distribution and of course funding. Are there appropriate resources on FrankelBiz for these needs?

Terri Robinson ( (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): Congratulations Yancey!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:47 AM): Joel, did you have something? (5/8/2000 9:48 AM): ^5 Yancey!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:48 AM): Nothing beyond posting a NEED on the list, Bruce.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:48 AM): I personally try to avoid TV and entertainment deals. I've never had a good experience with them.... (5/8/2000 9:49 AM): Okie doke. Just thought I'd check. (5/8/2000 9:49 AM): That'd be hard to do, since that's what we're good at. ;-)

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:49 AM): I know you don't allow survey's on the Bee list but I just finished a quiz with a great response page. Can I post it here? I'd like your reaction to the results page, you can just hit submit without filling it out.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:50 AM): Right now, I'm just enjoying the conversations. I will participate more in the future...

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:50 AM): Yancey, anything goes here. I just don't allow surveys on the list....go ahead.

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:50 AM):

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:50 AM): Should I fill in the void until someone else steps up?

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:50 AM): Okay Joel, just didn't want you to think I forgot about you... (5/8/2000 9:51 AM): how many 'hooks' could a web designer use to stand out? target market.. small to medium size business

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:51 AM): My grammar Queen has not reviewed it yet...

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:51 AM): Thanks Rob :~)

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:52 AM): What do you mean exactly, Patti? (5/8/2000 9:52 AM): having asked that I have to run.. sorry.. client just arrived

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:53 AM): No problem. Yancey, I took the quiz, waiting for answer....

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:53 AM): How come it didn't tell me my score?

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:54 AM): BTW, using software after posting on list.

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:54 AM): That is one thing it does not do. I'll check on it. (5/8/2000 9:54 AM): yeah, I

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:54 AM): Who supplied the software? It's kind of neat!

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:54 AM): Filling Void: How can I brand myself? I don't think just saying "Win with us" will distinguish me from anyone else.

Joel ( (5/8/2000 9:55 AM): Please let me know about the next F2F in L.A.

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:55 AM): I did lead you to believe that. If it can't I'll change wording.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:55 AM): I did a down and dirty "Branding IQ Test" on, but it doesn't tally anything....all html based. (5/8/2000 9:55 AM): I'd have liked to see "your answer to "X" is (correct/incorrect)... then go into the correct answer

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:55 AM): Perseus SurveySolutions for the Web

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:56 AM): I agree with JoAnna

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:56 AM): No Gary, you can't. It's tough to brand yourself. I can't do that for you here. But if you do try to do it yourself, at least you know which direction in which to head...

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 9:56 AM): After reviewing dozens I choose it for special features including having only my branding on the results page. You helped me make that important.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:57 AM): Heck, Yancey, I want to know if I'm a friggin' dragon genius or moron! I like the device, though. It's fun.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:57 AM): PLUG: (I have no interest in it) has lots of this kind of stuff, too.

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:57 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:58 AM): OK. Thanx. I'm trying...

Gary S. Best ( (5/8/2000 9:59 AM): BTW, congrats on the sale Yancey! (5/8/2000 9:59 AM): bye, all! have a great week! (client just called - impeccable timing!)

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 9:59 AM): Rob, you have a great book. I'm doing the exercises and using a lot of the answers for my business plan!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 9:59 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online!

Yancey ( (5/8/2000 10:00 AM): Thanks all!

Terri Robinson ( (5/8/2000 10:00 AM): Bye Rob and everyone! See you next week!

RobFrankel ( (5/8/2000 10:00 AM): Thanks Steve! Bye everyone!

Joel ( (5/8/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob. Congrats Yancey. See you all later...

Dr. Steve Rebagliati( (5/8/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks and goodbye...

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