Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic May 24, 1999

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 8:54 AM): OK, so I'm early, but this is always good information, and I am adding it to the "things to do" list for Monday.

Terri - (5/24/99 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

Terri - (5/24/99 8:58 AM): Hi Guy! I agree - I have this chat on my calendar to remind me each week

RobFrankel (5/24/99 8:58 AM): Entered the room.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 8:58 AM): I know what you mean, I missed last week and did darn its and then added it to mine too.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 8:58 AM): Guten tag....

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 8:59 AM): Ah, the guru is here.

Terri - (5/24/99 8:59 AM): Good morning Rob!

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 8:59 AM): Terri what calendar do you use? Mine is Outlook 98

Terri - (5/24/99 9:00 AM): Mine too Guy! great tool to have! I love the pop-ups !

Richard Fentiman (5/24/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:00 AM): Guru? man, I gave a talk at Pepperdine University on Friday. I did the breakfast keynote, Gary Hamel did the lunch keynote. Gary gets $45K PER SPEECH! THAT'S a guru...paid like one, anyway...

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:00 AM): I read somewhere in email recently it was voted as the best.

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:01 AM): Rob, you need a better agent it sounds like to me.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:02 AM): I saw that too - someone on my AZIPA list

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:02 AM): I'm looking for one, Guy! Know anyone?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:03 AM): No, I don't do that sort of thing. A search for it on the web should pull someone.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:03 AM): Of course, Hamel did the Pepperdine lunch for free, since he's an I actually got paid more than him, that day.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:04 AM): you should have asked Hamel for a recommendation Rob - network *grin*

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:04 AM): Nah, just kidding about finding an agent. I actually have speaking gigs through June. Anyone going to be in Vegas at the end of June? I'll be there the 28th, I think.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:04 AM): Don't think I didn't, Terri!

Terri - (5/24/99 9:05 AM): where in Vegas, Rob ?

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:05 AM): At the Bellagio Hotel. An industry meeting presentation.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:06 AM): Rob, are you going to open for someone? Or be the star?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:06 AM): Well, I have a trained seal act opening for me, but I'm the luncheon keynote -- main attraction, that day, at least...

Terri - (5/24/99 9:06 AM): wow! impressive! isn't the Bellagio that brand new one?

Carole - (5/24/99 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:07 AM): Right after I do my branding thing, I go into an Elvis medley...

Carole - (5/24/99 9:08 AM): (Rob doing Elvis) "Brand you, brand you verra much ..."

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:08 AM): That should work in that town.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:08 AM): *laffin* - I'm putting it on my calendar right now then!

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:08 AM): Carole, have you been stealing my script?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:08 AM): Now THAT'S funny.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:09 AM): It was too obvious! Hey, I have a question about selling ads on a web site.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:09 AM): I note that the 28th is a Monday, no guru that day huh?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:09 AM): Okay, I see that Roger and Richard are here today. What can I do for either or both of you today?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:09 AM): Okay Carole, you go first.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:10 AM): I can see what it *costs* to place ads. But where do I find info about what type of revenue a site can expect, depending on their traffic?

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:10 AM): Thank you, I'm a first time visitor. May I watch?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:10 AM): Sure Roger. Just inviting you to jump in...

Richard Fentiman (5/24/99 9:11 AM): Hi Rob--I am still sort of new at this--I don't want to ask the wrong questions so I am sort of watching for now

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:11 AM): Carole, the entire issue revolves around each specific advertiser. Forget all these nuts who want to sell you cookie cutter formulas. I take each case by itself, because I want to know what a justifiable cost per lead is, for example.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:12 AM): My company has a Q&A 'engine'. We're shifting our strategy to build Q&A sites. Want to know how to propose to compensate our 'answerers'.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:12 AM): Cool, Richard. It's totally impossible to embarrass yourself here...

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:13 AM): Well, Carole, I love But depending where you are in your business cycle, I would start by figuring out what it costs for you to service each client, and mark it up from there.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:13 AM): I'd begin with a minimum monthly fee and then tack on rates according to usage.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:14 AM): have you done studies on what it actually costs you to answer a minimum quantity of questions per month?

Carole - (5/24/99 9:14 AM): Ah, new plan is to build Q&A forums - partner with a forum manager who has access to experts. Acme provides the technology, and a promise of a share in the $$.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:14 AM): If you start this way, you guaranteed profitability on every piece of business that comes in, from the get-go.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:15 AM): I would just be the 'nexus' - like Ebay - match the questioners with the answerers, make it possible for them to find each other.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:15 AM): Do you pay the forum managers? or does the "asker"

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:16 AM): Even if you go that way, the method I suggest would probably suit you fine until another strategy makes itself more evident.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:16 AM): Carole, (now seems to have done this successfully; that is partnering. There's also that uses a similar formula.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:16 AM): And how do you control the quality? Or does the Forum Manager assume all the brand liability?

Carole - (5/24/99 9:17 AM): We would like to offer the managers a share in the ad revenues, and equity in the company. Hence, I'd like to get a feel for how much ad $$ a site with 500,000 uniques/month can pull.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:17 AM): Equity in the company? Why on earth would you want to muck things up with an arrangement like that?

Carole - (5/24/99 9:17 AM): Forum manager is the QA person. And yes, Roger, seems to be the best model we've seen so far.

Richard Fentiman (5/24/99 9:18 AM): OK--I have been looking at sites--"links" seems to be the in thing -but would they work at the end. By this I mean that when a person places a catalog order with me the last page is simply a thank you. And, that is pretty plain right now--would a few links work. The last page is in another web page so by just clicking the x one is back to the catalog

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:18 AM): You only offer equity in cases of last resort. Don't marry the first girl you's awfully hard to divorce later on...

Carole - (5/24/99 9:18 AM): Rob: re: equity - upside in our joint success. We've the technology, they have the content.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:19 AM): Carol, couldn't you compensate the answerers with free advertising - like Jim Daniels and Wanda Loskot's BBS has their "advisors" pictures and link to them there on the site permanently? That should be a very profitable scenario for them

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:19 AM): I guess you could approach known managers (from, exchange their specialty content for increased exposure and ad revenue

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:19 AM): Richard, hold a minute. Carole, unless you're setting up one company per Forum Manager, I'd seriously reconsider that move. I'd rather see you form a joint venture with each and take a minority stake in each, letting the Fm brand his own gig.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:20 AM): Terri - yes, one 'hook' for the answerers is that their answers can certainly link back to their own sites. We'd help drive traffic.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:21 AM): Richard, Jaclyn Easton describes the last page in a commerce site as your chance for the Magic moment ( where instead of doing nothing or linking out, you have the chance to make one more sale.

Ron Tash .Good Day (5/24/99 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:21 AM): Rob - re: joint venture - we've looked at this, and the partners then seem to want our help to get funding, etc. Take A LOT of our CEO's time.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:22 AM): She makes a lot of sense, in that by that time, your visitor has already bought into your brand, and you can easily hit them for one more special.

Meg Rottman ( (5/24/99 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Amanda ( (5/24/99 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Charles Kessler (5/24/99 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:23 AM): I personally never link out to other sites, and recommend the same for most of my clients. Only rarely -- like in strategic alliances -- would I recommend it. You work to hard to get them there to make it easy for them to leave.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:23 AM): I agree Rob, if I have a client that uses outside content, I suggest frames then for that page.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:23 AM): Carole, I still think you need to decide if is going to brand itself or go the OEM route. That will determine a lot of your subsequent strategies.

Richard Fentiman (5/24/99 9:24 AM): Rob, thanks I will spend some more time on this

Terri - (5/24/99 9:24 AM): Carol, if your site has 500,000 uniques, the value to your advisors would be immense in the way of the advertising dollars they would save - and the ad dollars you get should be yours (IMHO)

Carole - (5/24/99 9:24 AM): We want to launch as the 'umbrella' for many Q&A forums. We'll brands

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:25 AM): Sure thing, Richard.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:26 AM): I don't know that I agree with that Terri. I think that Forum managers are Carole's best new business leads. I'd actually give them the bulk of the ad revenues to motivate them to grow their services.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:27 AM): I'd rather have 30% of 100 Forum Managers than 90% of six of them...

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:27 AM): Maybe have the FM, get a graduated share based on traffic?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:28 AM): This is why I say that branded community is the killer app of the web. Essentially, these independent Forum managers would be a branded community.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:28 AM): Rob - yes yes, we envision their upside tied to them growing their Forums, hence increasing traffic for all.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:29 AM): You'll find that a strong branded community promotes and propagates under its own steam. That's how FrankelBiz grew and continues today.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:29 AM): Guy - yes, we'll do that eventually .

Terri - (5/24/99 9:29 AM): good point, Rob

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:29 AM): Fine, Carole, so give them some REAL motivation. It's amazing how people's eyes light up when you give them a majority stake in something.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:29 AM): OK, now back to my cry for HELP! How much ad $$ can a heavily trafficked site get??

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:30 AM): Ron Tash....don't be shy....jump in if you wish.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:30 AM): Question: can someone point me to data on licensing deals (i.e.: cost, terms)

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:30 AM): Carole, forget the CPM rates, go for Cost Per Lead.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:31 AM): Roger, what industry are you interested in licensing? I have a great connection there.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:31 AM): Arrgh - yes, I know that click-through and cost per lead is where we're going. But we're not there yet.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:32 AM): Rob, I have a client who is gathering data on NHL licensing.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:32 AM): If I want to launch this business, I want to make a minimum $$ guarantee to the Forum managers. So, I can reverse-engineer what I think a big site can pull, in ad revenues, from the cpm costs plus knowing that ad agencies take 30 - 35% commission. I'm looking for a sanity check here.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:32 AM): Carole, if advertising ISN'T your main revenue stream, the easiest thing to do is to price yourself 20% under you nearest competitor. Even if it's a CPM rate. Anyone who buys that way will be going for the numbers, anyway, not quality.

Ron Tash .Good Day (5/24/99 9:33 AM): Not shy, just a little dinosaurish with computers..finally got connected..maybe created a Frankenstein.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:33 AM): It seems that a site with 1,500,000 page views could pull down 45,000/month in ad revenues. Is that a crazy number???

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:33 AM): What are you looking for specifically, Roger? Rates the NHL has licensed its properties for?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:34 AM): No, Carole, I think you're way off. Way high.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:35 AM): No problem, Ron, just wanted you to know you can jump in any time.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:35 AM): Rob: Good info. I want to plan a reasonable guarantee to the Forum managers, to know what expenses we might incur.

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:36 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:36 AM): Carole, your best bet is the fact that your page impressions should be of extreme high quality, since people who see the ads are pre-qualified. You can get a premium, but not based on those numbers. It'll be based on each Forum Manager's numbers, because

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 9:37 AM): Rob, have you had any luck branding with targeted E-zine advertising

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:37 AM): Screw the guarantee! Who's guaranteeing anything for you? This is business, it involves risk. If Forum Managers (independents) can't handle that, they're bad business!

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:38 AM): Clayton, I think e-zines are great for branding, but they have limitations. So my answer is a qualified yes.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:39 AM): The problem with e-zines is that they're actually for very sophisticated web people. Most neophytes don't know about them or how to use them.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:39 AM): Rob: good point re: guarantee. We could set up the Ts&Cs to talk about % share. Id' still like to get a feel for the overall numbers that are possible, though, so I know what I'm doing as I recruit Forum managers. Can you suggest someone I should talk with? Should I set up an appt. with you later?

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:39 AM): hi all sorry I am so late

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:39 AM): in one sense, FrankelBiz is like an e-zine. But I would never rely on it totally to launch and sustain my own brand.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:40 AM): Rob, that is part of it (and an NB part), but I'm also interested in case studies of the parameters of deals, especially via digital delivery (internet etc)

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:40 AM): Yes, Carole, you may want to contact me off chat.

Ron Tash .Good Day (5/24/99 9:40 AM): Wow..this terminology is amazing.ezines,forum managers etc...maybe I should put together a book of internet there one you know of to cover lingo.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:41 AM): Arrgh, Roger. That may take a bit of research. My contact is very big in music and celebrity licensing....

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:41 AM): Carole, ever consider selling the ad space to the other forum managers as a method to drive their own initiatives?

Carole - (5/24/99 9:41 AM): Rob: will do. Thanks.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:42 AM): E-zines are basically magazines that are delivered to you via e-mail, Roger. They're very focused to special interests, like bird-watching, poetry, pretty girls in scanty clothing....

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:42 AM): Okay Rob, no worries. I may have something else in the celebrity area soon. May I email you?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:42 AM): brb, have to boot the other 'puter, only have one monitor.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:43 AM): Roger: I think we'll have the opportunity to place ads from one Forum into another; had originally thought that the umbrella site would drive the most eyeballs and gather the most ad revenue. I get the feeling that our going-in model will change radically over the first few months!

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:43 AM): Forum Managers are just independent people who handle their own business for Carole's service, answering questions people have about products and services.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:43 AM): Sure Roger, e-mail me whatever it is. If I can't help you, I'll try to contact someone else.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:43 AM): ugh - that was 'umbrella' site!

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:44 AM): Carole, maybe Rob will become a forum manager. Its a solid idea.

Ron Tash .Good Day (5/24/99 9:44 AM): Are there many Bees who would attend a Orange County meeting..possibly Irvine,Newport Beach...would like to be part of one if it would be acceptable.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:45 AM): Anyone here who has interest, advice or curiosity, please email me later:

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:45 AM): I can't be a Forum manager. I'm too busy working my Las Vegas act (joke that latecomers won't get)

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:45 AM): back

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:46 AM): Ron, there have been at least 4 FrankelBiz Face to face meetings that I know of. If you'd like to organize one, simply post it to the list. They're always great.

Carole - (5/24/99 9:46 AM): Roger: Great idea, would make it really easy for Rob to build up a body of FrankelKnowledge that is easily accessible on-line!

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 9:46 AM): I really didn't need to relive that visual

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:46 AM): I don't get it :)

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:47 AM): That's because you're late, Louise!!!!

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:47 AM): I would like to see a FrankelBees service directory myself, geographical in nature for the face to face people.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:47 AM): Clayton, until you've seen me in a whit jumpsuit, don't make any judgements.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:48 AM): Who does what and where they are.

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 9:48 AM): oh, baby

Amanda ( (5/24/99 9:48 AM): Good idea, Guy

Carole - (5/24/99 9:48 AM): Guy: YES! at least to be able to find someone's email off-chat

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:48 AM): Guy, I get that request often, but have resisted it so far. A central directory will actually cut down on the list's interaction. I'd rather have people post a need and let others fill it.

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:48 AM): hehe.. sorry I am also in a meeting too :) can't be everywhere

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:49 AM): In keeping our community alive and well sort of thing.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:49 AM): The best thing I can offer at this point is, where Merchants do list there addresses.

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:50 AM): sorry Rob, are you going to Vegas?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:50 AM): Sometimes due to the press of the close of the deal, the wait is too long for the list, but just have a directory would work.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:50 AM): Guy, I have a folder where I keep my FrankelBee requests to refer back to when I need something :)

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:50 AM): Of course, we're still tweaking it, but there's a lot to be gained from that.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:50 AM): Yes, Terri, and there's always the searchable archives....

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:50 AM): Speaking gig there at the end of the moth, Louise..

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:51 AM): Ah, that's a good idea too Terri, I am one of those mission critical do it now sort of fellows that hates to wait.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:51 AM): Rob, how bout the occasional advertorial or case study on how well FrankelBiz works?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:51 AM): That should be "end of the month", not moth

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Louise ( (5/24/99 9:52 AM): sounds good, can you send me more info about it?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:52 AM): Roger, I actually have posted that to the list on our first year anniversary. It is also a main component of the Branded Community chapter of my book, Revenge of Brand X.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:52 AM): Guy, just change the subject of the mail to something that will key you :)

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:53 AM): Rob, I've enjoyed this chat. Its a national holiday today, and thus the first time I've been able to attend. Thank You.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:53 AM): The short story is that we generated over $500,000 in real cash dollars for our members (not me) in our first year. If you add in partnering, it totals over $1 million between FrankelBees.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:53 AM): Where are you Roger?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:53 AM): Right, Terri, I can also export it as a text file and use Access DB

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:54 AM): Ottawa, Canada

Terri - (5/24/99 9:54 AM): That will satisfy your "instant access" need, Guy

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:54 AM): Yes, you are certainly able to roll your own database. But be careful not to contact other FB's via a targeted mailing. It's a serious infraction of the FAQ's and could get you fried off the list. We've lost three people that way...

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:55 AM): Love our neighbors to the North. Disproportionately represented among the webhead population.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:55 AM): I hope so Terri, I have a reputation built around "getting things done" while the other guy is yet planning.

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:55 AM): (FIVE MINUTES)

Terri - (5/24/99 9:55 AM): I only contact the ones I have a question or answer for - on a one-to-one basis, oh Dictator sir

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:55 AM): I wouldn't put that information online Rob, just tucked away in the "toolbox"

Amanda ( (5/24/99 9:56 AM): Guy, what is

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:56 AM): She who invokes my wrath shall feel it across her backside, yea verily!

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:56 AM): We are a web design, development and deployment co since 1995.

Roger Biddle (5/24/99 9:57 AM): 90% of my business is done in US. No borders, just worse exchange rate.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:57 AM): Visit us and join the internet_web_developers list. -end shameless plug

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:57 AM): Believe it or not, unsolicited contact is the #2 compliant I get from FrankelBees.

Terri - (5/24/99 9:57 AM): don't get kinky Rob! *laffin*

Terri - (5/24/99 9:57 AM): what is the #1 complaint?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:57 AM): Well I have to ask is the banner at the bottom of chat #1?

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:58 AM): I meant that in a metaphorical sense, although it does present an intriguing image...

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:58 AM): No, Guy, "Too much mail" is #1.

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:58 AM): The number 1 complaint is that this chat is only an hour long?

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 9:59 AM): With Rob in a white jump suit

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:59 AM): Nah, even I get sick of myself after an hour!

RobFrankel (5/24/99 9:59 AM): See Clayton, it grows on you, doesn't it?

Guy R Cook - (5/24/99 9:59 AM): Bye all till next week, have a grand time.

Ron Tash .Good Day (5/24/99 9:59 AM): Must sign off..but for a first timer..good experience..must get to work..job developer for a MCSE Institute

RobFrankel (5/24/99 10:00 AM): Alright everyone, Brand you, brand you verra much! Rob has left the building!

Terri - (5/24/99 10:00 AM): wow! I get a lot of value from the mail I get from FrankelBiz! I would never complain about that!

Amanda ( (5/24/99 10:00 AM): My cat has been known to stare at the bobbing head...

Clayton Turnbow( (5/24/99 10:00 AM): Yea, so does athletes feet Fungus

RobFrankel (5/24/99 10:00 AM): (Thanks Carole...great line) See you all online!

Terri - (5/24/99 10:00 AM): *chuckling* bye Rob! see you next week! thanks for a great chat!

Louise ( (5/24/99 10:01 AM): bye all :)

Carole - (5/24/99 10:01 AM): Bye all. Thanks for the help!

RobFrankel (5/24/99 10:01 AM): Thanks everyone....great session today.

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