Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic May 28, 2001

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:00 AM): Yes, it's Memorial Day here in the States, but not everywhere else! The Clinic moves on!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:00 AM): Pretty good Terry, but I JUST made it...And yourself?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:01 AM): I'm great, thanks -- had a very productive weekend (much to my surprise!) :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:01 AM): A good surprise, I hope.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:01 AM): I got my first KIDiddles CD cut and just have to put the finishing touches on the songbook, and I'll be in business! (yay!)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:02 AM): Excellent. I trust you have an MP3 sample for download......

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:03 AM): The CD is MIDIs from the site converted to WAVs so teachers, Sunday schools, etc., can use them for performance -- I'll have RealAudio samples on the site once I get it online.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:04 AM): CD's are a greatly profitable item.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:05 AM): Here's hoping. :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:05 AM): Once the production cost is amortized, you should see some good bottom line improvement.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): There's been a lot of demand from teachers (and others) for the ability to play the music on their car CD players, etc., so I hope this ends up being a wise decision/investment.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): Good morning!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): And really, except for the time it's taken to put it all together, there wasn't a whole lot of start up cost besides a CD burner and J-cards, etc.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): Now that Napster has been crippled, it should be!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:06 AM): Good morning Hidden Works

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:07 AM): Even's new deal will be interesting to watch

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:08 AM): My payroll service screwed up my name change and so I was listed as Hidden Dorks for a while with the government

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:08 AM): Nothing to do with Rob but thought it would brighten the morning for y'all

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:08 AM): Ouch -- that'd hurt! :-)

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:09 AM): Rob: interesting comments on your 'branding' keyword in today's FrankelTips

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:10 AM): Well, compared to my weekend, that's pretty good....VERIO went into a project site and crashed both hardware and software....

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:10 AM): Wow, you read it already? You are fast -- it just went out!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:11 AM): Some Emails take priority over others... FrankelTips is one. :-)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:11 AM): I second your motion Terry

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:11 AM): Sorry to hear about your crash -- nothing worst than that.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Wow

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): And after they took responsibility for it, they don't want to resurrect it without charging.......

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): I just noticed there are only three of us here

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Wanna guess who I'm NOT recommending for hosting?

Del (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): How do you folks motivate yourself to sell?

Del (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Morning folks!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Hi Dell

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Anyway, regarding the "keyword" you can see what's happening with pay per click and why it's flawed.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:13 AM): Del that is

Del (5/28/2001 9:14 AM): Great new cards are getting featured in one of my trade magazines...the one that pulls in 60% of my sales! :-)

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:14 AM): That's pretty incredible -- my hosts take full responsibility for their errors -- AND, if the problem was theirs, the full month of hosting is on the house.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:14 AM): Morning, Del -- congrats on the feature!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:14 AM): Joel, I'm THE WORST at cold calling, but I'm great at selling because I really believe I can solve the problems that people bring to me.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:14 AM): Congratulations Del! Way to go!

Del (5/28/2001 9:15 AM): Pacbell screwed up DNS servers on Tuesday and then put the entire west coast down for half of Thursday. Loads of fun.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:15 AM): Rob, I'm the same to tell you the truth

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:15 AM): Terry, by contrast, I was up and running at in an hour -- at half the price.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:15 AM): Put me in a room with a prospect and I'll deliver

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:15 AM): But arghh... cold-calling

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:16 AM): Rob: not only do YOU believe you can solve the problems, but my example, I think it's fair to say that your followers believe it, too.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:16 AM): I discovered what motivates me, though, over a few days past week

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:16 AM): oops -- my example should be 'by example'

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:16 AM): It's intellectual challenge. Which, I suppose, I subconsciously find lacking in cold-calling

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:16 AM): I often wonder if that's really the root of it all. I mean, I get pretty emotionally involved with my solutions, really matters to me that it works. Almost an ego thing.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:17 AM): I'd rather do a root canal on myself than cold call.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:17 AM): In my case I went back to my developer roots as I haven't been developing for the past year, just doing business

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:17 AM): LOL... me, too, Rob!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:17 AM): It's almost as if I have something to prove to myself, as well as the client. Which is why I get such a rush out of it when I can solve it and see it work.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:18 AM): Basically, I like tinkering with programs, solving bugs, hacking things to make them work, etc.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:18 AM): You have to enjoy what you're doing -- if you don't, you're destined for failure, I think.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:18 AM): The problem lots of people have is that they keep it at that emotional level instead of using that emotion for motivation and doing the rest as business.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:18 AM): Writing complicated software. So I figured I will cold-call half a day and give myself the rest to do some challenging programming

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:18 AM): Terry, I know a LOT of miserable rich people!!!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:19 AM): Rob -- that may be so, but if they're miserable, they're failing in some aspect of their life.

Del (5/28/2001 9:19 AM): Rob: Have you ever created a branding message/persona that a client absolutely doesn't understand and gets pissed?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:19 AM): The side benefit is that I keep my development edge which matters when you are providing... well... development.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:19 AM): I'm not wealthy -- but I'm emotionally VERY rich. I love what I do; I enjoy what I do, and I wouldn't want to be doing anything else.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:20 AM): And I'd rather go through life struggling to pay the bills a little, but being essentially happy with where I am and what I'm doing.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:20 AM): Terry, I think that must be the hallmark of a true entrepreneur

Del (5/28/2001 9:20 AM): I think that's the fundamental problem of small companies...the ownership mindset. Understand "my" ideals and ideas.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:20 AM): That and not wanting to work for anyone else

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:20 AM): (Although I sure wouldn't complain if the bank balance all of a sudden jumped in a big way!) :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:21 AM): No, Del...I can safely say that every client that I've worked for has had the same reaction -- enigma at first and then joy. The reason for the puzzlement is that they let their guard down and they finally see things from the outside in.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:21 AM): <-- highfives Terry

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:21 AM): I agree wholeheartedly on that, HiddenWorks! (Joel?)

Del (5/28/2001 9:21 AM): How did you assignment go?

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:21 AM): In fact, the only time my stuff hasn't worked was when the client failed to implement. It's still the hardest part of the project.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:22 AM): LatinoGear called me. They still do.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:22 AM): Yes Terry :-)

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:22 AM): Getting a client to understand why they should do something, particularly when they come in with a fixed impression of what they THINK they need, is probably the hardest part of a consulting business.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:23 AM): But they're stuck in a mindset and moving very slowly. Great guy, though, who eventually will succeed if he decides to shift from hobby to business....

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:23 AM): I'm halfway through implementing Rob's suggestions. I think the leadership bit is hard

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:23 AM): Yeah, terry. Especially when they come to you to change something!

Del (5/28/2001 9:23 AM): Rob: That's me too. I haven't made the step forward, mentally.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:23 AM): Joel, I do a whole hour tape on leadership. It's MUCH easier than you think.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:24 AM): Rob, I have your tapes ;-)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:24 AM): I have created a "branded" mailing list, called it HiddenWorks and people are joining

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:24 AM): I think about 80 people now, in about 2 weeks, with the bulk joining in the first week

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:25 AM): And, Rob, especially when they PAY you for your *expertise* (then refuse to listen to you)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:25 AM): Did you listen to the leadership part? Because it has a lot to do with how we're raised. You gotta break out of that. Then move into that vacuum!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:25 AM): And I have a message going out at the top of each post, sort of like FrankelTips on FrankelBiz

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:26 AM): Terry, that's the story of my life. You've got to realize that when people pay you to help, the first thing they have to do is admit that THEY have failed.....and that's a huge ego issue.

Del (5/28/2001 9:26 AM): Terry: That's a problem for GA's too. A client wants a logo, and they have an "idea" of what they want to see. Worst kind of client.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:26 AM): And the content is good, which I tend to. The problem is for me to making it really informative and starting to provide people with suggestions, keep a dialog going

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:26 AM): Tough when you are all problems and need solutions yourself

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:26 AM): Joel that's excellent. You should write your opinions, offer valid guidance and warnings. Take care of them and they'll start reciprocating.

Del (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): <--- Way too much coffee this morning.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): Del: I agree -- I'd rather perform a SECOND root canal on myself than deal with them!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): Joel, ask them! Remember your goal is to get them to interact with each other as much as with you!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): which is one of the main reasons I've been trying to phase out of Web design.

Del (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): LOL.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:27 AM): <--- No coffee at all!!! Boo hoo.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:28 AM): <-- severe 2hr workout

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:28 AM): Joel, review the branded Community tape. Believe me, once they get going with each other, you can sit back and moderate. Jump in when you like. For me, FrankelTips is much more labor than FrankelBiz.....

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:28 AM): Rob, you are absolutely right. I have to tend to it, sort of like growing a plant. I have asked people what problems they have but I suppose that's back to admitting failure

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:29 AM): <---severe couch potato this week

Del (5/28/2001 9:29 AM): Rob: After our discussion about my potential new advertising option...I chose one we hadn't discussed....A mini-banner ad on a popular industry site. $300 for the month. Guaranteed 200,000 impressions consisting of brokers, lenders, mortgage professionals and real estate brokers.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:29 AM): Also, be careful what you do... I just unsub'd from a list that decided to change from 'free' to 'pay' because I didn't see any value added. I was much more impressed with Rob's decision to start a NEW fee-based list for value-added services.

Del (5/28/2001 9:30 AM): Joel: Diehard gym-goer?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:30 AM): Rob, it's not as easy, actually. The list is for web designers to discuss business problems and they already interact on a bunch of other lists

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:30 AM): Absolutely Terry. That's something that's subtle, but very important. And I really believe the brand helped carry people from one to the other.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:30 AM): Terry, correct. I'm trying to be careful.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:30 AM): JERRY, jump in with a topic if you people get to go first....

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:31 AM): Joel of course there's a difference -- this one is YOUR list! What's the branded difference?

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:31 AM): Lurking for now but thank you for the invite

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:31 AM): Del: Well, sort of. I find that I'm much more able to function if I tend to my body. Otherwise I sit at home all day and wallow in my depression :-). At the lack of customers and so on :-).

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:31 AM): Definitely, Rob. You're enough of a leader that I felt pretty certain I'd get value for money. (And I believe I already have.) In the case of this other list, I just ended up ticked off that they'd make that kind of decision.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:31 AM): Del: Working out helps me overcome the challenge of lifting the phone and start cold-calling :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:32 AM): Joel, instead of asking them THEIR problems, have you considered asking them to supply you with THEIR answers to others' problems? Nothing gets them going faster than a chance to puff publicly!

Del (5/28/2001 9:32 AM): Joel: heh. My days general start at 3:20 (wake-up), at the gym by 3:30, back home by 5am.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:32 AM): <-----Blushing. Thanks, Terry. I noticed you're starting to build a cult of E-Tailers there yourself...

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:32 AM): Actually, I have an interesting discovery. I put together this really short and honed phone pitch. I acted it out several times in preparation.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:33 AM): Joel, it doesn't involve hand puppets, does it?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:33 AM): Thanks, Rob -- it's a slow build, but already there seems to be a great community of folks willing to work together for the success of all.

Del (5/28/2001 9:33 AM): LOL.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:33 AM): Del, when do find time for the doughnuts?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:33 AM): LOL!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): Then I just picked up the phone and said "I'm Joel Reymont from HiddenWorks and I'm calling today to introduce myself and the company and see how I can help you with your backend problems".

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): Joel & Del, you guys are crazy

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): 3:30 is the time for sleeping

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): I did that a few times. I would just say it and then sit back and listen :-). Works like a charm, I think.

Del (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): Rob: No donuts... :-) I get home, shower, down a shake and nibble on some toast or something and make coffee. Then it's newspaper and email. THEN my work day.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:34 AM): I'm telling you both -- terry and Joel -- this is virgin territory just waiting for you both. Like the American continent in 1700.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:35 AM): Del: That's harsh. I try to wake up at 6am to be at the gym at 6:30 :-)

Del (5/28/2001 9:35 AM): Rob: I told Terry that her etailer endeavor could turn into a business opportunity.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:35 AM): YES JOEL!!!! Excellent tactic, listening. NOBODY else does it. I once got a huge account because I was "the only guy who listened instead of selling my services." <---- true story

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:35 AM): Rob: giving people a chance to puff is GREAT. I'll make a note and will use it today. See what happens

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:36 AM): Joel, one of my (sort of former) clients trains people in the IT industry on cold-calling. He's got some pretty good tips and tricks for it. I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate for a one-person operation, but you could check out

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:36 AM): I'm telling you, ego is a powerful tool. Heck, it powers almost every major business in the world.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:37 AM): Add that to the fact that our social structure is built to suppress egos, you can see that people are just DYING to for any opportunity to let theirs out.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:37 AM): Terry: Thanks! I'll do. I have a great many sales books as well. I like "selling with integrity" and "spin selling", where spin is actually an acronym for solution, problem, implication and need-payoff

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:37 AM): ego

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:38 AM): Del, I don't know that the Etailers thing will ever in itself turn into a money maker, but if it helps me increase my sales potential with KIDiddles, I'll be happy.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:38 AM): so rob, why do you think it's virgin territory while there's so much competition out there?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:38 AM): Del: why do you wake up so early?

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:38 AM): Because nobody else is doing it right!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:39 AM): Terry, if you stick with it and build a clear strategy for it, it WILL turn into a business all its own.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:39 AM): Rob: Do you think I should ask people how I can help with their backend problems? or programming? should I mention problems?

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:39 AM): Haven't you noticed that so many successful people found success through a side door they never imagined?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:40 AM): Strategy... my nemesis! :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:40 AM): Sure, Joel, as long as it's all part of the solution to their problem. Here's an example from my end:

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:40 AM): Joel: why not ask them what they perceive their problems (or business issues) are?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:40 AM): I was just watching the fashion channel with my wife yesterday

Del (5/28/2001 9:40 AM): Joel: Um. If I wake up later, I have to deal with half-asleep people playing with weights. :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:41 AM): People come to me at the beginning with a "brand" problem. They think it's only identity and so forth. But then I ask them how their brand strategy impacts their bottom line, they go blank.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:41 AM): and indeed, most designers got "lucky" in a way they never imagined. but luck is preparation meeting opportunity (forgot who said that)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:41 AM): Terry: I guess the challenge is to work it into the call.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:42 AM): As I explain to them everything that branding entails, they wake up to my branded solutions and revenue strategies. Internal plans, external plans. Next thing you know, we're into a broad, sweeping relationship.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:42 AM): This is one of my favorites: "I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." (Stephen Leacock)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:42 AM): Rob, do you think I should offer FrankelBees a free "backend chat"? I think Terry got a good thing going :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:42 AM): Needless to say, most clients require serious education before they can even appreciate what you can do for them.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:43 AM): Terry: I think most of my achievements have been through luck of one sort or another :-)

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:43 AM): Rob, that's the truth!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:43 AM): Joel, you can definitely do so, along the same lines as Terry has done....

Del (5/28/2001 9:43 AM): Rob: Because you don't do cold calls, have you avoided the "Isn't branding my logo?"

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:43 AM): Terry, I really believe that luck does play into it. Believe me, Bill Gates is no smarter than anyone here today.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:44 AM): Rob: hmm... yeah, questions about hosting, php, picking out backend devs, etc. pretty much what I offer designers on the list but I've been thinking of how to bring it to their clients. I think they want to know too. The regular business folks

Del (5/28/2001 9:44 AM): Terry: Nice quote, here's another (from an author I can't remember). "Man is born either anvil or hammer."

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:44 AM): No, Del, they sometimes still ask that. But now you know another reason why I provide so much free content on my site. I'd rather that people educate themselves on their own time.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:44 AM): Joel: one issue that often arises is Web development in E-tail. I'd be happy to give you a forum of your own in the Etailers Chat board.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:44 AM): So Rob, if it's a good idea how should I go about it?

Del (5/28/2001 9:45 AM): Terry: Or MY quote: "The will to succeed is nothing without the means to achieve it."

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:45 AM): Del, I like that one. How very true...

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:45 AM): Terry: An offer I won't be able to refuse :-) Let me know if you have AIM, ICQ, MSN, etc. We should discuss it after this session.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:45 AM): Pick a time and a day you'd like to do it. Terry uses this chat room on Thursdays 9 - 10 AM, but the rest of the time is free.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:46 AM): Del: But the means are you in your power sometimes, building them that is

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:46 AM): My favorite: "Marry rich."

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:46 AM): Unfortunately, I didn't.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:46 AM): Rob: It's official then. Wednesday 9am-10am. Shoot, wait. Terry, are you West or East?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:46 AM): Joel, the board is at

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): The key, of course, is finding and tapping that secret strength we all have, but just can't seem to find.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): It has built-in IM, and I also have ICQ, which you can access via the board.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): I meant building the means to achieve success

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): I'm on the west coast, Joel

Del (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): Or the one I came up with for a yet-to-make greeting card, "I don't just think outside the box. I kick the crap out of it." and the inside *could be* "Rob Frankel. Big Time Branding." 8-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): Everything else is work -- and luck helps, believe me.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:47 AM): Rob: "marry rich" was my sister's motto -- and she did very well. Me, I married stupid. :-)

Del (5/28/2001 9:48 AM): Terry: LOL.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:48 AM): ok, then I suppose I should make it 12pm-1pm EST.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:48 AM): That would work for me, Joel

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:48 AM): Del, I once blew the minds of an entire convention of hacks and posers when I was sitting on the panel on stage. They asked how people did what they did and every hack said "I think outside the box."

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:48 AM): Terry: Is your board off the shelf or proprietary code?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): Actually anytime from 9-5 Pacific on Wednesdays usually works

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): terry: I would still love to get your IM info

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): Jerry, the board is from YaBB:

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): Terry, is your board separate from this chat?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): it's free -- and pretty powerful. I like it so far

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:49 AM): They got to me and I said, "Fuck the box. I think outside the CUBE", which totally took me off the two-dimensional space. It was great. You could hear the brains frying.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:50 AM): Joel, yes. The board is there for people who can't make it to the chats

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:50 AM): Rob, how should we call this Wed chat?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:50 AM): LOL, Rob -- I love it. That must have shocked a few of 'em!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:51 AM): Terry? Del? Any name suggestions?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:51 AM): Jerry?

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:51 AM): Joel, it's your show. Give it some thought. Look at what Terry has done and what I'm doing. Steal what you like, invent the rest.

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:51 AM): Off the top of my head, no -- but maybe we can brainstorm by ICQ

June (5/28/2001 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): But I wouldn't stray too far from your brand...haven't you noticed that to even send a post to FrankelBiz or FrankelTips, you MUST type out my name??? <G>

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): Terry, so shoot your ICQ to me at then

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): It's that darn brand awareness thing again....

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): Rob: That's true. But Terry's chat is on FrankelBiz anyway, so to speak

Del (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): One of the problems I do see about message-based boards is people "may" feel the loss of anonymity email posting to a list allows.

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:52 AM): HW: I missed the part of your discussion where you described the product. Please tell me in 25 words or less your value proposition.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:53 AM): my list is called HiddenWorks, for example. doesn't go to my domain but that's until the end of the month when my new site is finished.

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:53 AM): Joel, check my top banner....wanna count how many times the Frankel name is up there in one form or another? Any CHANCE of someone leaving here WITHOUT knowing who's hosting?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:53 AM): Jerry: I don't have a product :-). I'll shoot it to you if you send me your contact info to

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:54 AM): Rob: you gain you loose. In this particular case that's what you get for giving me the benefit of association :-)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:54 AM): Joel -- that's the problem right there. jerry's asking and you're putting it off.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:54 AM): So I think that's fine

Del (5/28/2001 9:54 AM): I've got to take off a bit early folks. Have a great holiday (to you US citizens). Happy Monday to Terry...Make some sales!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:54 AM): Rob, Jerry: I just don't feel comfortable puffing in this forum :-)

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): exactly

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): Thanks, Del -- you have a great day, too!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): Jerry: backend programming is what I do

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): &lt;25 words

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): Del: cheers!

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): Jerry: Joel (HiddenWorks) supplies backends for designers and direct clients on a seamless basis. He provides turnkey services invisibly so that front end people can provide more value.

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): your not puffing

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): you cant in that short of space

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:55 AM): BY Del...bring back a Krispy Kreme for me!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:56 AM): uh, let me save that. Thanks Rob! :-)

June (5/28/2001 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:56 AM): I'm here to see how its done

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:56 AM): Rob: nice...

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): jerry: I will have a free hour of consulting, like this one. every wed, 12pm-1pm EST

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): Oooh, nice description Rob!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): yes, thank you Rob :-)

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): Joel, now you just need to learn how to do that! (Copy and paste it before you lose it!) :-)

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): Terry: URL for your biz please

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): You gotta be quick on the trigger, Joel. That's what a brand strategy does for you.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): You know, I highly recommend spending a couple of hours with Rob on the phone

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:57 AM): FrankelCall

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW is my motto

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): Jerry, my kids' music site, KIDiddles, is at

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): I also recommend the tapes which I have and listen to all of them

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): that was a song, right jerry?

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): the Etailers Chat, which (sort of) came about as a result of these Monday am sessions is at:

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): I co-op everything that works

Terry ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM):

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): Jerry, baithook sounds interesting. What do you do?

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:58 AM): I mean, I did spend almost the last bucks I had on time with Rob and it CHANGED my LIFE!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:59 AM): maybe not

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:59 AM): I've been to your site Terry. And read your board.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:59 AM): But look at the mileage that I'm getting ;-) heh

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 9:59 AM): We provide opt-in email services for business clients worldwide. Baithook offers proven services that bring customers back to your site every day. And our methods generate new prospects as well!

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 9:59 AM): thanks for the icq# terry

Terry ( (5/28/2001 10:00 AM): Jerry: didn't connect your name here with your Email -- now I got it

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 10:00 AM): I have 200+ customers serving 1.9 million subscribers

Terry ( (5/28/2001 10:00 AM): (Just haven't had time to reply yet -- but I will)

RobFrankel ( (5/28/2001 10:00 AM): Okay, folks, great session today. Lots of action. I've got to get my coffee. I'll see you online!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 10:00 AM): Jerry: you should also post something to the board about your service.

HiddenWorks (5/28/2001 10:01 AM): Cheers Rob!

Terry ( (5/28/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob -- see you next week!

Jerry ( (5/28/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob

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