Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic June 8, 1998

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 8:52 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 8:58 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 8:59 AM): Hi Tina... guess we are the early ones, unless someone is out there just lurking without entering their name. :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 8:59 AM): Nah...Just made it in time!

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:00 AM): Tina, are you full-time already with the new gig?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:00 AM): Good Day! Good Day!

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:01 AM): hi Rob... first time here in a few weeks, I like the new feature of the name list in the lower right...

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:01 AM): Thanks. This is probably as good as the page will get until I can move us to a sponsored site...

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:01 AM): Good Day! Good Day!

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:01 AM): But if I can make a suggestion, the animated GIF banner can get real annoying, they are good in general, but I don't like them on a page like this where I'll be staying for a while.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:02 AM): Had a slight refresh problem... but now I'm here :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:03 AM): I can take it off, and I will when I get a sponsor to buy it. Right now, it has to stay there for prospective sponsors

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:03 AM): The new gig is half way negotiated... next Monday I get to present to the "big boys"

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:04 AM): Ira, how's the educational program going?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:05 AM): Also, how many people are subbed to MTOTD? You don't have to give me exact numbers, but just an idea....

Ira Pasternack(6/8/98 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:07 AM): Ira, log off and reload. You got trapped.

Ira Pasternack(6/8/98 9:07 AM): ugh.. somehow I got back the name box, and just typed that whole thing as a name, not sure how that happened.

Ira Pasternack(6/8/98 9:07 AM): MTOTD has around 2500 subscribers

Ira Pasternack(6/8/98 9:07 AM): MTOTD has around 2500 subscribers

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:07 AM): I am in talks with a serious commercial sponsor and you may want to join in...

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:08 AM): What's the profile of your subs?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:08 AM): Sorry, now I'm Ira again, instead of that long sentence... :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:09 AM): That's okay, it happened to me last week..

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:10 AM): profile - combo of people in the industry (other marketers, web developers, ISPs, etc) and webmaster/business owners (or people who are looking to start a biz)... with some reporters, students, professors, etc. mixed in

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:11 AM): can you give me any details on this sponsor? what are they looking to accomplish by sponsoring?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:12 AM): If I can close this deal, I'm going to want to ramp up the service big time.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:12 AM): Essentially, they need someone to flesh out their commercial section of their site. So I may base my operations out of their site...

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:13 AM): can you give me an example of what "ramping up" would involve?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:13 AM): I can't tell you the names of the potential sponsors, but they're big time.

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:14 AM): We're going to walk in with an army of people who are serious about doing business on the web. Growing FrankelBiz to a magnitude of 100x

soaplady (6/8/98 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:15 AM): I don't know about you, but my feeling is that if Adam Boettiger is telling the truth, he's got 12,000 members

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:15 AM): how do you define "serious about doing business"?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:16 AM): If he does, it's the QUIETEST 12,000 I've ever seen...

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:16 AM): We have a chance to grow FrankelBiz -- and maybe your readers -- into something much more than that.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:16 AM): You never know... given his content, I'm not surprised that he would have lots of lurkers.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:17 AM): I'm on Adam's list and have only posted once in the last year.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:17 AM): "Serious about doing business" is the FrankelBiz mission: less talk, more action. Fostering people to actually make money with each other.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:17 AM): I did an ad trade with Adam a while back, he probably only had half that many subs then, but based on the results from the trade, I tend to believe him

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:18 AM): Yes, Adam "primes" the list a lot with his own messages...he has to keep the action up, or risk losing sponsors.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:18 AM): as long as people realize that they do need to spend money in order to make it sometimes, I like your definition

soaplady (6/8/98 9:18 AM): Good Morning everyone!

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:19 AM): Incidentally, I like Adam a lot. He and I speak fairly often, although I think he got spooked when I announced FrankelBiz...

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:20 AM): However, Ira, if I can move this program to a sponsored site, everything that we do on FrankelBiz will roll out big time, with more services and opportunities for everyone.

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:20 AM): Hello everyone.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:21 AM): Hi Jorge, Louise!

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:21 AM): The sponsor I favor has lots of product that can be rolled into our programs, too. Which means it's a perfect match.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:22 AM): Rob, this sounds interesting, especially in light of something I am working on that is not dissimilar, and also would have major funding from a well-known Net company

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:22 AM): Anyway, enough about me..what's the latest we have from you guys

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:22 AM): In the internet world, "perfect matches" are much easier to find and land.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:23 AM): let's see, I have moved out of my house into a proper shop/store

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:23 AM): Louise -- you went retail???

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:23 AM): Can't really give you details, but let's make sure to keep in touch as our respective deals go forward, Rob, so we can try to work together instead of ending up in competition :)

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:23 AM): Congrats Louise!!!

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:24 AM): Absolutely, Ira. I will know more by the end of June.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:24 AM): thank you Tina, nice to have my house back :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:25 AM): Louise, what's the physical move doing to your profit structure? Most of us moved to the web to CUT overhead. What made you move?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:25 AM): Rob, I needed more space, and it had room for a little storefront so I don't waste any space LOL

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:25 AM): Can Definitely Relate! Are you feeling secure with the increased overhead?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:25 AM): Rob, I should know more in a week or so, I'll keep you informed.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:25 AM): Where's the little storefront?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:26 AM): I had most of the costs covered; still nervous , but feeling that it was 'right'

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:27 AM): How are your internet strategies going Louise?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:27 AM): Tina, those "perfect matches" you can find online have their downside too... when you don't actually get to meet someone, it can sometimes be hard to really know them.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:27 AM): Hmmm...a feeling,, eh? Nothing a tad more substantial?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:27 AM): to tell the truth it is part of my building :) but not in the living area LOL

Torri (6/8/98 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:28 AM): Ira, so true... Can't grow into these things quickly... need to develop to be real and worthwhile.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:28 AM): no, it was overrunning my house, we didn't have much living area:)

Oops. Got logged off for a minute (6/8/98 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:29 AM): so it was a case of having to

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:29 AM): Entered the room.

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:29 AM): Oh, man, first I get logged off, then I get back on as "ROOB"

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:30 AM): Tina, or anyone else... any ideas for how you can best determine if someone you meet online is really a perfect match?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:30 AM): We have to evaluate each situation... For instance, I'm landing content for sponsorship swaps for a client, but am making sure that the site we are providing content to has it's promotional act together and has properly targeted the market to make the work worthwhile.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:30 AM): I personally like Roob :)

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:31 AM): Ira, I have a client -- a very long sales cycle -- who insists on meeting all his internet associates face to face BEFORE doing any biz with them

soaplady (6/8/98 9:31 AM): gosh Tina, how do you determine that?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:31 AM): I suggest to always make a phone call AT LEAST (if you can't meet in person). Email is good, but should not be relied on.

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:31 AM): I, on the other hand, would do business with anyone here today, no problem.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:32 AM): I use Alexa to evaluate the "partnership" site to start... then link research the site with Altavista...

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:32 AM): I agree, you should at least talk to them on the phone, but I must tell you that this whole chat page was done by Brain Rickman, a list member

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:33 AM): ...and he and I have never done more than trade e-mail

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:33 AM): Tina and Roob :)... good ideas, things that I already do... another thing I do is start with a "trial" project, so no one commits to too much up front... then you can each learn more about the other, and decide how you can best work toward a longer term relationship...

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:33 AM): Tina, how do you use Alexa?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:33 AM): I have Alexa, how does that help you, by seeing how many links in? By seeing what other sites are suggested?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:33 AM): Then ask them point blank how old they are and how much of their resources and in what direction are they going ...

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:34 AM): The more you have to invest, and/or the more there is for you to lose (including reputation) the more important it is to talk or phone or meet in person

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:35 AM): Alexa is a free download that sits open on your computer desktop and every time you pull up a site it gives various stats. You can get it at

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:36 AM): What kind of stats does it serve?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:36 AM): You got it Louise... granted it's just a start, but sometimes the most useful info is who owns the site. I've been on the phone with people and commanded great verbal "respect" because I knew at least that much.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:38 AM): I found it fascinating to see that what I thought were really busy sites, was only getting the same traffic as I! Made me feel good

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:39 AM): Great topic! What's your favorite bullshit detector? And how do you verify your biz partners claims?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:39 AM): Louise, numbers can be deceiving... I know for a fact that many of my "competitors" get much more traffic than I do, but that doesn't mean they are doing nearly as much business as I am...

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:40 AM): Another good tool is Altavista... although not 100% accurate, you can see what links are coming into a site by typing in: link://

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:40 AM): Exactly. My argument has always been quality of quantity

soaplady (6/8/98 9:40 AM): well, maybe my site isn't too bad, still get over 2000 hits/day, 350 visitors LOL

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:41 AM): Great tip, Tina...where do you type that in?

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:42 AM): Well I can talk about people who claim to be interested in my services but they are competitors who want to know my price ranges. Usually they aren't likely to give all the information about them.

Roob Frankel (6/8/98 9:42 AM): Louise, your issue is sales closure...Out of the 350, how many do you close?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:43 AM): I still get really irked when sites proudly spout "hits" numbers, not the unique visitor numbers.

Torri (6/8/98 9:43 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:43 AM): Rob, one thing I do make them pay me first... this doesn't work in every situation, but one of the things we do at Clearly Internet is "turn clients into partners"...

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:43 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:44 AM): aw gee, I just did that Tina, only 3 sites into mine?

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:44 AM): how do you accomplish that Ira?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:44 AM): aw gee, I just did that Tina, only 3 sites into mine?

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:45 AM): Ira, what's your URL?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:45 AM): there we locked up, not many Rob, still having problems but we have had some theft problems, can't really fix it up yet :(

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:45 AM): Jorge, one thing is I look for businesses who have a product or service that could relate to mine, but that also needs my help

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:46 AM): Louise, it isn't 100% because it updates every other week or so... but it helps.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:46 AM): Tina, where do you type the "link://"?

Torri (6/8/98 9:46 AM): I don't seem to be refreshing ... is it me or is anyone else having trouble?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:46 AM): so tell me something basic, how do I get more links into my site?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:46 AM): Tina, we are at

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:46 AM): The server must be burping today. I've been logged off twice today.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:47 AM): In just like you were searching for something.

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:47 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:47 AM): Great tip. You guys should know that a number of people read these transcripts..

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:47 AM): Actually, you can just type

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:48 AM): Rob, just type it in the Altavista search box... you can do the same type of search on HotBot, read their tips or help section for instructions... Infoseek used to have the same feature, not sure if they still do... check them all, as they all have different databases

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:48 AM): Hugh, you type it right into the search box?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:48 AM): I know Rob, got some biz that way :)

Oh yes. Your clients are primarily into your same business type (6/8/98 9:48 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:49 AM): Man, I apologize for the server goofing up today...

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:49 AM): Entered the room.

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:49 AM): Entered the room.

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:49 AM): That's it!

Torri (6/8/98 9:49 AM): Entered the room.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:49 AM): ok, anyone have any contacts with Nordstrom's :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:50 AM): Tina, can we learn anything more from that than we can from our own referrer reports (for our own sites)?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:50 AM): Nordstrom's? Have you gone through their web site (before we start playing "who you know")?

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:50 AM): I'm having a big lag here.

taotree (6/8/98 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

Doc Williamson (6/8/98 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:51 AM): Yes... depends on the referrer software you are using for your site.

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:51 AM): BTW, Tina, what is your URL?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:52 AM): Net traffic must be up, and everyone's having trouble. It must be my server. (SEVEN MINUTE WARNING)

soaplady (6/8/98 9:52 AM): oh yes, and I have contacted them, thinking of visiting them next week in Seattle.. just networking now, you know:)

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:52 AM): My site did a small run with Nordstrom's this past Xmas. Typical small retail advertising budget though.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:52 AM): Let me think on it, Louise...I may have someone.

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:53 AM): Tina has just pointed 2 great tips. You should use them combination with others to gather information about a prospective client of partner, or provider.

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:53 AM): What's your site, Hugh?

soaplady (6/8/98 9:53 AM): great!

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:53 AM): It's a one-page site for now... didn't want to put up something I couldn't refresh/maintain :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:54 AM): Yeah, stick around...I have big plans for you.

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:54 AM): We're a Knight-Ridder newspaper site. I come from the agency side, been here about a year and a half now. Different animal!

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:54 AM): I'm Here... do with me what you will :)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:55 AM): Yeah, Hugh, Now YOU can let THEM take you to an expensive lunch!

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:55 AM): Hah! Arby's anyone?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:55 AM): How did Nordstrom's do with you?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:55 AM): Tina, where are you located?

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:56 AM): (Two-Minute Warning)

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:57 AM): Entered the room.

Jorge R (6/8/98 9:57 AM): Hmmm : ( . I couldn't participate of this conversation as mush as I'd wish. This frame was updating up to almost 3 minutes every time. Hope to be luckier next time.

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:57 AM): Maryland

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:57 AM): Tina's in Maryland

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:58 AM): do I hear an echo ;-)

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:58 AM): Yeah, once again, everyone, I'll check with my ISP for what happened here today. But we did get some good info..

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 9:58 AM): Will be visiting the west coast in August.

Torri (6/8/98 9:58 AM): Jorge...I had the same trouble...I hate not being able to talk!!

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:59 AM): Tina, book me in, but not the last week in August..

taotree (6/8/98 9:59 AM): Rob, would you be interested in a Java Chat for this forum? I realize you like the HTML form for compatibility, but Java is often easier, and faster.

taotree (6/8/98 9:59 AM): Rob, would you be interested in a Java Chat for this forum? I realize you like the HTML form for compatibility, but Java is often easier, and faster.

Hugh McGoran (6/8/98 9:59 AM): We did a campaign for Nordstrom's special services during the holidays. They have a location in the King of Prussia Mall here - pretty hoity-toity (spelling?). Of course the great creative we put together went south with budget concerns, but I must give them credit for being there at all.

soaplady (6/8/98 9:59 AM): oh yes? going to WA?

Ira Pasternack (6/8/98 9:59 AM): Tina, I'll be giving you a call or email later today or tomorrow to talk about some ideas

Rob Frankel (6/8/98 9:59 AM): Okay, everyone, I gotta run. But stick around as long as you want. I'm off to beat up my ISP!

Doc Williamson (6/8/98 9:59 AM): I kept my "mouth" shut and listened, for a change, wasn't that refreshing?

Torri (6/8/98 10:00 AM): Great stuff about checking contact stats...

Tina Thomas (6/8/98 10:00 AM): I'll email the dates and times I'll be around... Look forward to talking to you Ira! Hi Doc! Bye Doc! Bye all!

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