Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic June 9, 2002

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:03 AM): Yikes! I'm late! Apologies!

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:03 AM): Got caught up in a new biz presentation....

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:03 AM): HI everyone! Who's up first? We always let the new folks go first, so fire away.....

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:04 AM): Whoops, there goes my name.

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:04 AM): My publicity is picking up. I assume that is good?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:04 AM): Uh oh, whoever signed on as "hello", log off and back on. The server caught you

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:04 AM): I'm new to this whole concept - so hit, Tamra, and Rob, what do we do?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:04 AM): Anita, how is your publicity picking up?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Hello is good. It's a friendly name, anyway.

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): My profile has just been featured on IdeaCafe...

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): morning everyone!

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Ned, this is a free forum, where I donate one hour of my time regarding branding, business and anything else that will help grow people's businesses.

Terri Robinson ( (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Good morning!

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:05 AM): Tomallen, are you still here?

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:06 AM): and SearchDay just did a feature on Search engine marketers and I am listed in all the directories mentioned.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:06 AM): Is this a forum for branding questions, or a new-biz-op exchange?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:06 AM): Ned, we're pretty loose here, but branding gets first priority.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:06 AM): What kind of questions can we ask here? Id like to see if a slogan is good.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:06 AM): We've done a lot of new business deals here....

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): I'd like to intro myself on FrankelBiz but am unsure

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): Go ahead Hello....but you'll have to tell us more about yourself.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): OK, I have a question. Two companies are owned by a third; IMO, they need a single brand. Should we find a new brand, blend the two, or what? (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): Yep. I'm here. I thought this would be something I would sit back and watch... So I'm thinking of possible Q's

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): Anita, you absolutely should.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): Okay, I will be running a FSBO website - For sale by owner in my area. It's a site for sellers to post their homes for sale and save thousands on real estate commissions.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:07 AM): No prob. Okay, anyone want to jump in with a Q?

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:08 AM): But I fear I am not the caliber others are.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:08 AM): Please put me on the list for a Q.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:08 AM): Ned, this is not cut and dried, as you know A big part of the answer depends on the business reality of how much value there is in the two names.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:09 AM): Don't fall for the apparent benefits of "one name under all" if it costs the allegiance of the users loyal to those brands.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:10 AM): Consolidation CAN be beneficial operationally, but not necessarily branding wise.

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:10 AM): Hello, how do you plan to make money?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): That having been said, what are the benefits of merging or creating a new brand for all? That's a big education and financial cost.....

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): Anita, we charge for personalized, extensive listings.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): Good insight. How about linking each brand (as it exists) to the new parent company? Taking (for instance) AccountMate and making it Softline AccountMate? The other brand would be Softline BusinessVision ...

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): Hold on, Hello. Let's finish with Ned....

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): We'll also print a local real estate mag with their listings as well.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): Ned, what kind of companies are they? How old are they?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:11 AM): Sure, just answering Anita. Sorry.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:12 AM): Ned, it would all depend on what the eventual goal is for Softline. The risk you run is like the WordPerfect example I write about in ROBX. The "all you eggs in one basket" issue. If Softline as a brand tanks, it takes the pre-existing brands along with it.

Yosef Rabinowitz ( (6/10/2002 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:12 AM): They (AM and BV) are established accounting software (SME and Mid-Market), one strong in the US and one strong in Canada - they are not competitive since AM is open-source code - VARs can and do sell both

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 9:13 AM): Look at the guys who just bought MediaMetrix -- the website's already "a division of comScore Networks" but since I don't know comScore from a hole in the head, does that link help?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:14 AM): Good point, Tamra.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:14 AM): Offhand, I think that since each has a loyal following, you really have to look at the user base. Accountants especially make very important decisions. They like security. They don't like change.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:14 AM): Softline (parent company) is big everywhere but US/Canada - a major player in English-speaking world. Not likely to tank and leave AM and BV (both smaller) standing.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:14 AM): So if you were to do a brand merge, it would have to be stealth -- but not the way you think.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:15 AM): Stealth - you mean ease into it without a lot of hoopla and publicity?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:16 AM): I'd guess the way to do it would be to introduce the new brand through the two old ones with new product. test the buy in. Then, if successful, gradually increase the new brand and its presence among the old. After everything, the new brand announces its acquisition of the two, but only after it has built up its own trust with users.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:17 AM): Ned, this is a perfect example of the i-legions thing. If Softline comes in as the Branded Community, its name gets sold into the user base as a helpful support tool.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:18 AM): After a certain period of success, Softlines Branded Community has built the trust to the point that the users accept their product becoming part of the Softline family.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:18 AM): The purchase is history (3 years ago) - it's known to the media, but not widely apparent to the market. Perception suggests that AM needs help, BV is strong - I'm trying to see how to help AM by creating a link.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:19 AM): I like your iLegion comment - I need to think on it and check with the client - but this could be a useful tool. Other ideas?

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:19 AM): Hi. I'm just going to listen for now, but if anyone needs information from a medical doctor half-way through an MBA, and it's on topic, I'm glad to help.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:19 AM): I don't know enough of the particulars, but you can see that just establishing a link to the other brand is a band aid

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:20 AM): See how the stealth thing works? It's a little counter-intuitive, but that's how it works best to protect and enhance all concerned safely.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:20 AM): Steve, what's your URL?

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:21 AM):

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:21 AM): Band-Aid or bridge - Microsoft is entering the market, and my gut tells me a single stronger brand is more viable than two smaller, separate brands.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:21 AM): Okay, "Hello", you can jump in now

Del (6/10/2002 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:21 AM): Okay, thank you ---

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:22 AM): Ned, gut may tell you that, but remember that each brand of yours has a different user base and they determine what's going to happen, not MS.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:22 AM): Steve, your FrankelTips bounced from your mailbox may want to look at that.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:22 AM): As I mentioned before, we're starting up an FSBO (For Sale By Owner) site here in our area. One of the fastest growing metros in the state (Florida).

Del (6/10/2002 9:22 AM): Rob: Quick jump-in. Hit the bookstore yesterday and flipped through Micro-Branding (T. Grossman). Nice from what I read. Would complement your book.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:22 AM): One of our original slogans is "Bringing homeowners and homebuyers together."

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:23 AM): But after reading through a couple chapters of your book (yet to finish),

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:23 AM): I'm thinking that slogan doesn't hit close to home.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:23 AM): Sure thing, which mailbox was it?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:23 AM): Yes, Hello, that's extremely generic....

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:23 AM): One of the slogans I am thinking of has to do with the purpose of our site --- save thousands on real estate commissions.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:24 AM): So perhaps something along the terms "Home of the Commission Killer."

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:24 AM): Or a variation thereof.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:24 AM):

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:25 AM): NO, Hello, I think you're off target here -- you have to write it from the user's point of view....why should they use you as opposed to any other FSBO outfit?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:25 AM): Home of the Real Estate "Commission Killer"

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 9:25 AM): (Del, I'm reading Guerilla Creativity by Levinson -- about memes in branding. Also compliments Rob's ROBX well.)

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:25 AM): Sorry about that capitalization there, Hello. Hit the wrong key

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:25 AM): And one of our packages would be called the "Commission Killer."

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): Ah, good point... Right now there are really no niche FSBOs serving the area we're in.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): By being FSBO's they already know about killing commissions. Now they need to know why they should see you as the best solution for those issues.

Del (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): Tamra: I'll try that if you take a look at my suggestion. :-)

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): Save for the national sites who do no advertising or pub here.

Del (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): The FrankelChat Book Group ;-)

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:26 AM): I was thinking from the standpoint of educating about FSBOs since I don't know if many are aware of them.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:27 AM): Hello, there may be few competitors now. But if the concept is good, it's only a matter of time until they show up. So you might as well as build a strong brand now.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:28 AM): So our branding should focus on what advantage we provide the sellers .. We don't necessarily have to convey that we save on commissions?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:28 AM): If you have a niche, why isn't apparent in your brand?

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:28 AM): Research into brand awareness doesn't have to be expensive, does it Rob? For me or for Hello. Do you recommend online (zoomerang-style) research?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:28 AM): (advantage as opposed to other FSBOs in the area)

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:29 AM): No, Hello, you don't have to LEAD with commission savings -- that's the whole point of FSBO anyway. They know that stuff. What they don't know is why they should choose you to help them

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:29 AM): Gotcha... Hmm.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:29 AM): Ned, it depends on the quality of the research and what you're really trying to find out.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): Dang it, now we have to sit down and think about how and why we can distance ourselves from other FSBOs.

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): (Del, will do.)

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): Any recommendations on how to approach that? That's my last question.

Personalized service? (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): For Hello, home-seller awareness levels I'd think - for me, brand loyalty/awareness

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:30 AM): Ned, it depends on the quality of the research and what you're really trying to find out.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:31 AM): Distancing yourself from others is both a branding and a marcom/publicity question. Branding comes first, then execution via communications

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:31 AM): Hello, that's where you should have started!

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:31 AM): We're going to provide exceptional service and hand holding to help them sell their homes themselves. But anyone can say "We provide exceptional quality."

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:31 AM): Won't stand out, in other words.

Personalized service? (6/10/2002 9:32 AM): Hello, personalized services will break you apart.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:32 AM): But not everyone holds their hands the way you do

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:32 AM): Anyone can say they provide exceptional, personal service... How do we prove we do in fact do by way of our website and slogans/brand?

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:33 AM): Entered the room.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:33 AM): Ouch, I just realized I asked another question. My apologies. I know there's others waiting here.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:33 AM): Well, to start, you have to really articulate your statements and NOT use fluff language. Get specific and avoid generalities

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:34 AM): Okay, anyone else want to jump in?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:34 AM): That's in your book, right? I'm in Chapter two I think.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:34 AM): EVERYTHING is in the book! you bet.

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:34 AM): Yea, I'll jump in....

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): Can I jump in?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): Skip, you're first.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): Rob, I also want to tell you that Ray referred me to you here. He said to tell you he's the deaf guy who was here last week and asked about transcripts of the tapes. ;)

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): Steve, you're next.

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): If you have any, and I mean ANY branding needs, get yourself a FrankelCall...I see 3 of you here today who need it! I got one and this guy is Awesome!

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:35 AM): I'm done. Thanks very much.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): Thanks, Skip...Can I quote you?

Yosef Rabinowitz ( (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): Entered the room.

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): really...that's a non-paid, unsolicited endorsement....really blew my socks off

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): sure...I told you that before Rob!

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): Thanks. I am trying to brand myself as the world authority on physician success; much like Tom Peters is for business in general.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): How much do those calls cost?

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:36 AM): Hello, e-mail me, (

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:37 AM): Hello, click the link in the top left of your browser....See the red telephone?

Skip Pratt ( (6/10/2002 9:37 AM): it's only $'ll learn more about your specific situation than any book including Rob's will ever give you...

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:38 AM): To paraphrase Arnold ... I'll be back

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:38 AM): will do. thanks. out of my budget but hopefully soon!

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:38 AM): That's true. It does get very specific and we do cram a ton of good stuff into an hour...

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:38 AM): Anita, will do.,

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:38 AM): Go ahead Steve....

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:39 AM): I have one question: Is it better to lead with a free e-zine and try to build a community, or is a one page sales letter like on the website worthwhile...I could use the cash flow, but care more about building the brand, right now.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:40 AM): Should I be writing for certain venues, do speaking engagements? Right now I'm trying to decide what strategy to pursue.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:40 AM): Steve, why not do both?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:40 AM): As long as you have a brand to build on, there's no rule that says you can't do it all at once.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:41 AM): You'll find that some people buy in very quickly, others need to go at their own pace. This is why I have as many products and services as I do.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:41 AM): OK, I will. On the website, do you think the sales letter is congruent with this brand idea?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:41 AM): It lets each person go at their own pace.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:42 AM): Overall, sales letters tend to cheapen your brand if you push them ahead of the brand sale. Don't rush the sale. You can't sell trust, either. you have to build it.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:42 AM): Fine, I'm willing to take the time to do it right. What is the best use of a website to start building a brand?

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:43 AM): Also, it depends on what you're trying to sell. For the moment, you need to have your brand created so that you can build everything else on that foundation. If you don't you'll have a tough time.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:43 AM): Rob, your payment thingy for the FrankelCall is not working - when you click the Reserve your session, it says "This transaction cannot be accepted for processing."

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:44 AM): Steve, I really believe in offering a certain amount of free stuff so that people can see how you differ from the rest. Also, the stuff can't be junk. It has to really be helpful.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:45 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:46 AM): Try it now, Hello

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:46 AM): Still: "This transaction cannot be accepted for processing."

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:47 AM): I know more about this topic than ANY other doctor out there, at least taking it from a free market perspective. How much detail makes it useful?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:47 AM): Happens when you click the PAY NOW button here:

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:47 AM):

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:47 AM): Ned, if you need help with research, let me know. As a trained reference librarian, I do research.

Thanks, Anita. That's a nice complement to the primary research I do for clients. (6/10/2002 9:49 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:49 AM): It works now. Thanks for the heads up!

Thanks, Anita. That's a nice complement to the primary research I do for clients. (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Thanks Anita - your kind of research is a nice complement to the kinds of primary research I do for clients (I don't know why that came across as a log-in, Rob)

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Steve, YOU know that, but who else does? This is how it is with my branding practice.

Jerry ( (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Steve, give me enough detail to *do* something. I hate it when you can read 3 paragraphs but all the meat is "for more info subscribe".

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): Kinda like our FSBO situation here... We know, but we gotta let them know. ;)

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): So the first thing you need to prove to them is that you really do know more -- that's why I have the free archives and sessions like this one.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:51 AM): Steve - I've been in healthcare-provider promotion since '77 - once you settle the brand issues, if you need help with PR or Marcom, I'd be glad to help.

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:51 AM): EXACTLY...this is why brands have to be built from the outside in. Frankel's First Law: Brands are about THEM, not you. You already know why you're terrific. THEY don't.

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:51 AM): hi everyone

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:52 AM): That is a problem I have. It is important to educate the client, but if I give too much away, who needs me?

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:52 AM): We're learning! ;)

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:52 AM): No one else knows yet, but they're about to find out. I will model my approach of yours and reread your Brand X book. As a sidenote, try sending my FrankelTips to "". Thanks, and I'll just listen the rest of the session.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:52 AM): Steve, the web works best when you can allow them to anonymously get close to you and gain value from you. let them take stuff for free. THEY'LL know where they got it from and show up to pay for more later.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:53 AM): Rob, have you thought about email consultations or something? Or live one on one chat via a messaging thing or something? Ray, my deaf friend, was wondering how he could do the Frankel Call if he can't use the phone.

Jerry ( (6/10/2002 9:54 AM): Entered the room.

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:54 AM): So in a nutshell the best way to get business is to advertise to them 1st? Then bring in your product or service?

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 9:54 AM): Anita - folks don't want to do the work - they want to know you can do the work. I tell people all the time how to "DO" PR - but when they're ready, they still want me to do it for them

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:55 AM): Ray can use a relay service but it would take about twice as long and rob him of the value of your one hour.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:55 AM): Shawn, for Steve, it's important to build the trust first and then get them to buy. The point is that while you're building the trust, some people will buy faster than others, so it's fine to have things for sale

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:55 AM): I agree you can lead a horse to water....

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 9:55 AM): Ned - right on! Anita can also sell to folks who've tried it themselves and found out how difficult it is.

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:55 AM): BTW, Rob, I ordered your book and am waiting for it.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:56 AM): Anita: A good consultant answers enough questions to let the client see how many more questions there are. After that, there's the incentive to pay for the answers. So education is part of the job, but giving away your value is not

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:56 AM): Thanks, Anita! (6/10/2002 9:56 AM): Anita - I agree with Ned - show them a lot - all the work involved - those who still do it for themselves, you don't want - those who look and say "oh boy... that'll take too much time" will pay

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:56 AM): Hello, I'd price it specially for Ray.

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 9:56 AM): Ned, thanks. I will keep you in mind.

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:57 AM): I'll relay it to him. Thanks.

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:57 AM): I think the major thing holding people back is funding for projects. If its new and they have never done anything like a ad or radio time they will probably be scared and want to spend their funds on things they know work.

shawn from Hawaii (6/10/2002 9:57 AM): That's what I have found with my friends and people who come to me for advice.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:58 AM): The days of garage based start ups getting funded are long gone. These days, you have to show profitability first, which is why the web works so well.

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Anita ( (6/10/2002 9:58 AM): Bye, everyone!

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 9:59 AM): Ned, it's okay to plug your URL, too: If you people want a killer PR guy whose smart AND wise, you should contact Ned...

Hello? (6/10/2002 9:59 AM): What's the URL?

Steve Rebagliati (6/10/2002 10:00 AM): What's Ned's URL?

Terri Robinson ( (6/10/2002 10:00 AM): Wow! a ton of great information today, everyone! Thanks! See you next week, Rob! And thank you for your great advice here and in FrankelTips!

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 10:01 AM): Ned's URL is down for a complete re-do (Rob inspired me) - contact me at and I'll send you whatever you need

Tamra ( (6/10/2002 10:01 AM): Last I heard Ned hadn't finished his site yet....

Hello? (6/10/2002 10:01 AM): Thank you!

Ned Barnett ( (6/10/2002 10:01 AM): Thanks for inspiring me to get up early on a Monday a.m., Rob. And the reminder e-mail helped, too ...

RobFrankel (6/10/2002 10:02 AM): You bet. Hey, everyone have a great week! I'll see you online!

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