Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic June 14, 1999

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:54 AM): I'm's everyone doing?

Clayton Turnbow( (6/14/99 8:54 AM): Slow, how slow?

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 8:54 AM): Entered the room.

Clayton Turnbow( (6/14/99 8:55 AM): Life is good!

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 8:55 AM): Hello Rob and hi Jody.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 8:55 AM): Clayton just in terms of business. Business is slow.

Andy teBockhorst (6/14/99 8:55 AM): Entered the room.

Jody (6/14/99 8:56 AM): hi Kenny :)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:56 AM): Benjamin, did you see last week's chat transcripts? Bob Leonard was here.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:56 AM): Kenny! You in Israel?

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 8:56 AM): No I didn't get a chance. I have had a very busy week.

Terri ( (6/14/99 8:56 AM): Entered the room.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 8:57 AM): Rob, I'll review them while we chat

Andy teBockhorst (6/14/99 8:57 AM):

Clayton Turnbow( (6/14/99 8:57 AM): Well it is the vacating season I see seasonal slow downs during the summer months.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 8:57 AM): Rob -- Yes. Jody just reminded me about "this" and I thought I'd pop in.

Meg ( (6/14/99 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:57 AM): I thought he might be the guy who was offering you a deal for your soccer site.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:58 AM): Greetings, Andy. What can I do for you today?

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 8:58 AM): Ahh no.

Terri ( (6/14/99 8:58 AM): Good morning Rob! Good morning everyone!

Andy teBockhorst (6/14/99 8:58 AM): Hi Rob, just wanted to tune in for the session. I'll hover for now if you don't mind!

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:59 AM): No problem. Just inviting you in.

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 8:59 AM): Greetings David! What can I do for you today?

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:00 AM): I'd like to discuss customer service and its relationship with branding, if you don't have any objections

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:00 AM): Go to it, David. What specifically did you want to ask?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:02 AM): David, you there?

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:02 AM): I find it incredibly difficult to convince "the front line" that the impressions they make represent us - our brand. without fail, my suggestions are thrown into file 13. can you recommend a method of showing these frontliners the importance of branding through customer service

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:03 AM): Additionally, what do you think about customer service and its importance to a brand?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:04 AM): David -- Show them Avis' slogan.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:04 AM): Well, a lot depends on who your front line is. But I can tell you that customer service is a front, middle and back end deal. Who is the front line here?

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:04 AM): Avis' slogan - refresh my memory please

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:04 AM): Isn't everything you do branding? When I respond to a customer telling him the data he needs is at a competitors site, he comes back to me and says "Thanks! I'll be sure to ask you FIRST every time."

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:05 AM): Customer service -- especially on the web -- is CRITICAL. The web culture won't stand for simply taking your money and saying good bye. You can only develop a relationship when you care about more than the sale.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:05 AM): "We try harder" -- they know they're number 2, so their brand is telling everyone, "Hey, we may be smaller than the other guy, but we'll kiss your butt better."

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:05 AM): The WAY you develop that relationship -- in addition to merely establishing it -- is very much a brand issue.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:06 AM): I agree Rob. You don't have the benefit of speaking face to face with these people, so you have to try even harder to make a connection through strong customer communications and service.

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:06 AM): Literally, we are the "Services" Division on Bolling AFB. The front liners would be all those individuals that handle customer inquires - those individuals that make contact with the customer first

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:06 AM): Even if you don little more than confirm a customers order and shipping instructions by autoresponder, it tells the customer that you're looking after him. That's the very least you can do -- often you can do more.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:07 AM): Sure, Andy. Also consider the way your site is constructed. If it's not designed with customers in mind, you're dead meat. They'll NEVER be back.

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:07 AM): good point about the front middle and back end

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:08 AM): Its not only customer service on the Net. You need to create "oxygen" -- something a demographic needs.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:08 AM): David, you might know that my thing is presenting your brand as the only solution for your customers. You can't do that without doing everything with the customer in mind. Too many brands just brag about themselves, which itself tells the customers...

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:08 AM): Branding is how you prove you are oxygen.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:08 AM): David, I noticed you're military -- is your front line military, too?

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:09 AM): only about 1/4 of our front line is military

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:09 AM): Oops --"Which tells the consumer, "who cares about you?"

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:09 AM): We're primarily civis. Although most of our "orders" come front those with military rank

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:10 AM): Then consider your presentation to the front line as if they were YOUR customers. Show them how you make them heroes. In effect, show them YOUR customer service.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:11 AM): Customers prefer vendors who say, "Hey, I'm going to make you a star. You can rely on me" That's a big part of customer (and client) service.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:12 AM): Going the extra mile -- the unexpected mile -- is another good tool, as is making sure they notice it with a "No charge" item on the invoice.

David McClurg ( (6/14/99 9:12 AM): This is a rather difficult task due to the perceptions these military folk have. Lots of migration and similarities from base to base, although no universal brand

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:12 AM): Finally, the key to selling customer service is to show front liners that it is the CHEAPEST way to get more business. Always cheaper to get return sales than new ones.

Muhammad( (6/14/99 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:13 AM): Perfect! That's the reason they NEED a brand! It's the one thing that's common from base to base.

Muhammad( (6/14/99 9:13 AM): Morning

Muhammad( (6/14/99 9:14 AM): Military? What Branch?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:14 AM): I'd like to ask about selling advertising on y website. Do I cheapen my site by "whoring it out?"

Ron (6/14/99 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:15 AM): Well, Andy, I don't know what you sell. but you sure do undermine your brand when you undercut prices.

Ron (6/14/99 9:15 AM): Good A.M. just sneaking a break from work .may come in/out

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:15 AM): Andy, define "whoring"...

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:15 AM): So my $100 test ad campaign is a bad thing, rob? ($100 for 10,000 test ad impressions?)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:16 AM): David is obviously Air force, judging by his e-mail...

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:16 AM): Hold on, Ben, working with Andy right now. We'll get to you next.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:16 AM): Andy. As a site owner with a biased opinion, sell it yourself.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:16 AM): I have several online fantasy sports games that are free to play. Participants enter by buying a pack of trading cards from our customers... so the idea is to sell more trading cards. I thought this might be a way to earn a little additional cash. We're getting about 20-30k impressions a month.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:17 AM): Of course :)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:17 AM): Yes, but what do you mean by "Whoring"? Selling banners?

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:18 AM): Yes, I'd like to sell banners on every page but the home page. What I'm worried about is making the visitor uncomfortable and distracted.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:19 AM): Andy who does your audit for banner views?

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:19 AM): Well, it depends on how much your audience wants what you offer. I have 2 ads per page + a big one on the main page. And lots of the ads have my background as a way of raising clickthrus. No one's complaining.

Ron (6/14/99 9:19 AM): Is there a set standard rate for banner pricing?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:19 AM): I don't think you have to worry about your visitors being distracted -- unless you've heard comments otherwise. If that's the thing they like about your site, listen to them and don't do it.

David ( (6/14/99 9:19 AM): Entered the room.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:20 AM): I don't have any advertising at this time. I'm just beginning to explore the possibility.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:20 AM): Andy your site already looks like it has advertising (the topps, upper deck, etc. logos)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:20 AM): You may also find that your site could use its own kind of advertising -- something outside the regular standard banner. There's more to life than banners, you "This page sponsored by...."

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:20 AM): So adding a banner or button won't distract much (IMHO)

David ( (6/14/99 9:20 AM): sorry, got kicked out . distractions? what about broadband - does this factor into the equation? if not now, within 2 years

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:21 AM): Sometimes that can be a more credible approach. Just make sure you link them to spawn a new page, not take them off the site.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:21 AM): Hold David, we're with Andy right now.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:21 AM): I agree with Rob. Andy what about putting a large button under the baseball player's feet? that is a prime spot in the bottom right corner and it would fit well in the page.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:21 AM): As for standard rates, there really is none. As I understand it, it depends on your audience (how targeted it is, and what demographics you are reaching.) There a lots of services who sell the advertising space for you, but I don't have a feel for who's who yet.

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:21 AM): Rob -- having an ad open up a new page is a great system. Works too.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:21 AM): Like below "Awesome Prizesa"

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:22 AM): Andy, if your users feel that the sponsor is helping their interests along, they won't mind at all. It's just the "blatant intrusion" ads that people hate.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:23 AM): Andy, if you're well-targeted, you can get a premium rate.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:23 AM): Andy it also depends on what is being advertised. If they are advertising boxes of trading cards at $50 a pop and it averages 100 clicks per order... you won't be able to get a lot of money from the advertiser

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:23 AM): When you sell ads, clients really appreciate your concern about THEIR cost per lead.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:24 AM): What does premium rate get per thousand?

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:24 AM): So then you help them cut that down to 50 clicks per lead ;)

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:24 AM): Oops I meant sale ;)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:24 AM): But to answer your original question, it doesn't have to WHORE your site. Do it properly and it could actually enhance your site. Especially if the visitors see a true value to the advertisers. Be selective.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:24 AM): Benjamin, we're just getting into soccer cards... may be a fantasy opportunity in the future (thought you'd like to know.)

David ( (6/14/99 9:24 AM): Andy, so long as the navigation-ease is incorporated into your site and your ads don't hinder this ease of navigation, I think you're ok

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:25 AM): Has anyone worked with any of the advertising services? Your impressions?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:25 AM): Benjamin, as to your $100 test, I don't see that as whoring at all. That's just good business. You offered a deal to a group of associates.

Ron (6/14/99 9:26 AM): Does someone know what avg. rate is being charged..and on what basis..

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:26 AM): Give Flycast a look, I used them when I was marketing director for an ISP

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:26 AM): I'm becoming a fan of Flycast. I don't like the other ones. But I haven't done biz with them. I just like their style.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:26 AM): Andy -- I have. In an network, you're 1 of many sites. And most ads sold by ad networks are cheap cpm ads (unsold space).

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:27 AM): I'm afraid I can't hit flycast's minimum impression level.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:27 AM): Ron, there is no average. Do yourself a favor and work out the cost per lead for your prospective advertisers. That's what really means something to them.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:27 AM): Andy the problem with advertising networks like Flycast is that they already have a large base of sites. They don't want 10,000 sports sites, and if they already have 9,000 it will be hard to get them to accept you, even if your site is better, more professional, and gets more traffic

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:27 AM): I'd hate my business to be a number is someone's large system. A SMALL network, maybe.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:27 AM): Andy, I have seriously thought about starting our own Sports Advertising network with the likes of Merlin as advertisers.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:28 AM): Benjamin is correct. You want advertisers, not rep firms. Start with personal connections. Kenny Sahr did this very effectively, right Kenny?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:28 AM): Good point Benjamin. I don't really know how unique my site is, but I feel it's pretty targeted (confirmed Trading Card buyers.)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:28 AM): Mark, jump in if you like with your question...

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:29 AM): Benjamin, if I was in the position of being able to target 9000 sports sites, let's call it "all" I would use them as a buyer instantly to get volume

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:29 AM): Is there a service that would help find sites for advertisers interested in reaching a specific demographic? Shoe retailers for example?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:29 AM): Andy, you and Benjamin are on to something here.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:29 AM): Yep. You just have to learn how to sell ads yourself if you want to see real money. Its not my rules, but its the way it is.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:30 AM): Yes, Meg, that's what all the ad rep firms do. They gather client sites and sell space for them. Flycast, DoubleClick and those types.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:30 AM): Good question Meg... a site like that would be VERY valuable to a lot of people.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:30 AM): Kenny, you should hold a chat on this topic. I know you'd get a huge turnout!

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:31 AM): I'll be there!

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:31 AM): The problem, Meg, is that they only sell the sites they represent, which means you're not necessarily getting the best sites.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:31 AM): So I'll return! Its evening over here and a good time.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:31 AM): If you want to do it here, let me know and we'll announce it to the list as a special edition of Free Clinic...

David ( (6/14/99 9:31 AM): Kenny, do you do all your selling, or have you farmed some of this out - in house or out?

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:32 AM): There are sites that do that already Meg

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:32 AM): I'd have to look them up but there are several already.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:32 AM): When I've farmed it out I've seen mediocrity. I used one ad network that has a great rep and name, but even their ad guy complained, "I can't sell ads for you."

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:33 AM): I am currently buying advertising for a client - and we could expand into Net sites-- your conversation gave me a new idea -- thanks guys..

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:33 AM): Recently I've brought someone In-house to sell ads with me.

David ( (6/14/99 9:33 AM): what were his reasons?

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:33 AM): Meg look at, see if that's what you want. I just found them this weekend, haven't looked into them fully.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:33 AM): The truth is that you really have to do the job yourself if you want to see real money and real success.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:34 AM): oops, make that

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:34 AM): we sites argue that we need cpm ads, as CPA (cost per action) ads mean we're "basing our revenues on someone else's marketing skills."

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:34 AM): David, Kenny has one of the most controversial NON-ADULT sites on the web.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:34 AM): If so, how can we hand it off ad sales themselves to anyone else!

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:35 AM): Thanks Guy, I'll check it out.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:35 AM): is one of the most misunderstood sites out there. Outsiders don't get it, but the web public does.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:35 AM): Mark -- what's phillylist?

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:37 AM): Here's an idea for ad sales -- find a magazine that has the same demographic and then hire their reps (freelance on combo deal) to sell your site to the advertisers that they already call on.

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:37 AM): Hi, it's my attempt to start a regional email newsletter to help people in the Philadelphia area find jobs, housing, events, volunteer ops. etc. Got my inspiration from the Craig List (San Fran) if you're familiar with that.

David ( (6/14/99 9:37 AM): Kenny, what have to done or tried to do to make a connection between outsiders and the public? to decrease this misunderstanding

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:38 AM): Meg, that works for demo's but if you're after psychographics, it may not. How, for example, do you sell chocolate that way? It has no demographics.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:38 AM): OOOH! I like that idea. I already have strong relationships with several trade publications. Thanks!!

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:38 AM): Aha! A branded community, Mark. One of my favorite tactics.

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:38 AM): Sure. The press is always calling.

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:39 AM): For example, Rob, Kenny could team up with Paper Magazine.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:39 AM): Meg, you're completely right, I've contacted the ad agency which represents most soccer media in the us about online ad representation

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:39 AM): I prefer to be misunderstood actually.

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:39 AM): of course, I'm in the "typical" catch-22 - need subscribers to get the content...need content to get the, right now I'm working on ways to put together my first few issues with any input from subscribers...

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:39 AM): Any luck?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:39 AM): David, this brings up an interesting point: the middlemen are middlemen because they don't have day jobs. Very few reps really understand what they're selling or why.

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:40 AM): "Misunderstood" is a great p.r. angle.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:40 AM): Mark, develop good content then contact local TV stations, They'll jump on it if it's done well.

David ( (6/14/99 9:40 AM): mark, will you be competing with

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:40 AM): I think it's a good idea to ask the rep upfront what they did last month, and separate the chaff from the wheat.

Jody (6/14/99 9:41 AM): mark....why not start somewhat of a portal site for that region??????

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:41 AM): Most ad reps an marketing people go for the easy sale. You have to find people who want to build deals and who share your vision. Very difficult to find.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:41 AM): David, who cares about sidewalk? This is a perfect David and Goliath angle! People want the local boy to make good and beat Microsoft.

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:41 AM): good...I'm also trying to come up with some "offline" ways of advertising.. Maybe job fairs, college bulletin boards, etc.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:42 AM): Jody's idea is a good one. Start a mini-portal of Philly. But personally, I think original content is something you own and can build brand value on.

Louise ( (6/14/99 9:42 AM): Entered the room.

David ( (6/14/99 9:42 AM): can't think of the name, but the book consortium competing again amazon, Barnes and the likes. you like their chances rob?

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:42 AM): Mark, is there an existing charity - or better, two or three existing charities in the area you could team up with?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:43 AM): Mark, everyone can use free publicity. Offer businesses and people free listings and publication of their articles that will promote Philly.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:43 AM): David, I think ANYONE could bump off Amazon or B&N. No brand value to either one.

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:43 AM): great....a to-do list! just what I needed :) !!

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:44 AM): Think of it this way -- you're either misunderstood and written about, or you need a big advertising budget.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:44 AM): Mark, don't be afraid of posting to the list and asking for help. Lots of helpful people there, too.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:44 AM): But if book consortium doesn't brand, they're vulnerable too.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:44 AM): Is there a "How to post to the list page?"

Mark ( (6/14/99 9:45 AM): Thanks Rob and everyone else...just been a "Frankel bee" since Saturday and it's already paid off.... now I have to return the favor..

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:45 AM): Um, no, but post your notice to

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:46 AM): Don't sweat it, Mark, we're here to help each other out.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:46 AM): thanks, will try that soon.

David ( (6/14/99 9:46 AM): How do you suppose David takes on Goliath? doesn't David turn into Goliath rather quickly via IPO's and Venture capitalist if his/her idea is a good one?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:46 AM): But remember, you have to be a subscriber to post to the list or it will get kicked back.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:46 AM): Andy if you are still here can I get your email address? or email me at: to continue our discussion off list

David ( (6/14/99 9:47 AM): I guess "striking it Rich" has some great companies?

Kenny Sahr (6/14/99 9:47 AM): If anyone here does go to an ad network and gets good results, I want to know!

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:47 AM):

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:47 AM): No, David, look at it this way: There have been fewer than 100 web IPO's in history. You have a better chance of becoming an NBA superstar than going IPO as a web company.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:47 AM): Striking It Rich?

David ( (6/14/99 9:47 AM): I KNOW, it has some great studies about smaller companies.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:48 AM): off topic for sure, just got an email from a client that wants "online checking" for their sales any suggestions?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:48 AM): Strikingitrich is a good showcase of what's possible. Since its publication, some companies are gone, some are growing. use it as a guide to inspire you, not necessarily as a business model.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:49 AM): Written by my friend, Jaclyn Easton, you can see it at Very inspirational and informative

Jody (6/14/99 9:49 AM): guy...what industry?

David ( (6/14/99 9:49 AM): - online resources and communications corp.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:49 AM): Guy, what do you mean "checking"?

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:50 AM): Jody, they will be selling magnifiers for folks with low vision.

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:51 AM): Guy take a look at the adult industry organizations that review online billing companies. and

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:51 AM): Adult web sites are typically pushing the limits in eCommerce and you can get some pretty good feedback and advice when looking into vendors

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:51 AM): So the user can buy the lenses by check, if they don't have a credit card, the site has real-time authorization already, now wants checks too.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:51 AM): Oh, one more question. Any recommendations for web tracking software (i.e. webtrends, etc.) for show potential advertisers what they are buying?

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:52 AM): I track with web trends, works fine.

Jody (6/14/99 9:52 AM): ahhh cheques

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:52 AM): Andy my fav is: (NetTracker)

Terri ( (6/14/99 9:52 AM): Guy, uses a company for their orders..very easy online process.. check it out

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:53 AM): Andy, look at to see it. I just set it up, so the count isn't high yet...

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:53 AM): And guy I use btw.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:54 AM): for visa/MasterCard/checks/etc.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:54 AM): I have credit cards setup already, now want to add checks per the clients request.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:54 AM): I believe card service does that. I also believe you can go to companies like ibill for that

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:54 AM): Thanks Terri, Benjamin

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:55 AM): Most ISP's have a bunch you can choose from. It depends what information you're seeking. Webtrends has pretty graphs, but lacks some data I need.

David ( (6/14/99 9:55 AM): Gotta Run, Thanks Rob and best of luck to everyone.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:55 AM): Guy, I'll take a look... Thanks!

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:55 AM): Unfortunately a lot of those sites are only geared towards "subscription" based models of revenue and not "catalog" sales

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:55 AM): Rob before you leave...

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:56 AM): Yes?

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:56 AM): Right, Benjamin, I will need catalog sales model for this to work.

Benjamin Fitts (SoccerFans.Com) (6/14/99 9:56 AM): If I want to do private consulting which is stronger: or (I'll register both but promote only one.)

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:56 AM): See ya soldier!

Andy TeBockhorst ( (6/14/99 9:56 AM): Thanks a lot Rob... very informative. Benjamin, I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Louise ( (6/14/99 9:57 AM): just my 2 cyberpennies, sounds like benefits, might work really well for you

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:57 AM): If it's your services, I always go with your own name. Really serious people want really serious consultants. You are your brand. Go with your own name.

Meg ( (6/14/99 9:57 AM): bye all, thanks Rob.

Guy Cook - (6/14/99 9:57 AM): It's been great, thanks to all for their comments

RobFrankel (6/14/99 9:57 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Terri ( (6/14/99 9:58 AM): bye everyone.. thanks Rob for a great chat!

Clayton Turnbow( (6/14/99 9:58 AM): Terri, you still here?

Terri ( (6/14/99 9:59 AM): yes ?

Clayton Turnbow( (6/14/99 9:59 AM): Were you talking last week about going national?

RobFrankel (6/14/99 10:00 AM): Okay folks, I've gotta run, too. But hang out as long as you like. See you all later

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