Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic June 15, 1998

Jacob (6/15/98 8:55 AM): Hi Tina

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 8:55 AM): Good Morning to the Left, Good Afternoon to the Right :)

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 8:56 AM): Hi Jacob!

Jacob (6/15/98 8:56 AM): What's up this fine Monday?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 8:57 AM): Everyone ready for some great collaboration?

Jacob (6/15/98 8:58 AM): Definitely! I missed last week because I was on an 8-day Cancun vacation- without email and Internet for the first time in 6 years!

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 8:58 AM): Great things! I'm awaiting word on a funding proposal. Anyone else have funding experiences they want to share?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 8:58 AM): I get withdraws if I can't check email for over 5 hours :)

Jacob (6/15/98 8:59 AM): Funding, I hate hearing that word. It's the hardest thing to get.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (6/15/98 8:59 AM): I know what you mean, it was a very weird experience.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 8:59 AM): Man, no coffee and I'm almost late. Hi, everyone...

Jacob (6/15/98 8:59 AM): Hi Rob!

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:00 AM): I think seeking funding is a great exercise in verifying that you are hitting your market the right way.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:00 AM): Morning Rob!

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:00 AM): I can't believe there's no e-mail in Cancun! I've gotta haul the family there in August.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:01 AM): ...ten I spent all this weekend totally redoing parts of my personal site- (check it out!)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:01 AM): Ah, who's funding this morning? And why?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:01 AM): There probably is, but I wanted to try putting a moratorium on email for 8 days and see how I would react. Freaky experiment.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:02 AM): I would go through withdrawal.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:02 AM): Rob, what do you think about buying non-banner ads to find potential investors? could it work?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:02 AM): Rob, I've decided to bite the bullet, stand my ground, and as for funding so Diligent Communications can stay a viable separate entity instead of being taken over.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:02 AM): Tina, how's your project going?

Andy (6/15/98 9:02 AM): How ya doing, Rob?

Barb (6/15/98 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:03 AM): Andy, is that like, in Bourland?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:03 AM): Jacob, depends on what kind of ad and where... what are you thinking of?

Andy (6/15/98 9:03 AM): Precisely...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:04 AM): Atta girl, Tina, it takes cojones to do it on your own, but in the long run, it's worth it.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:04 AM): Hey, you guys, did you know that Andy Bourland is here? He publishes all those "z" site, like clickz, searchz and all that stuff. VERY influential...

Barb (6/15/98 9:04 AM): good afternoon from the East Coast

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:05 AM): If I know Andy, he's probably sniffing around to see if he should start CHATZ, right Andy?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:05 AM): Welcome Andy!

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:05 AM): Hi Ira!

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:05 AM): Andy also OWES me a leather jacket!!!!

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:06 AM): Hi Everyone, Welcome Andy - as a matter of coincidence, I'm finishing up today's MTOTD which is about SearchZ.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:06 AM): Well, Rob, I was thinking about sponsoring some sites, bigger things than a just a simple banner ad, as a way to find potential investors.

Andy (6/15/98 9:06 AM): A GREAT Marketing tip, Ira! Send me a copy...

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:07 AM): Hi Tina... so, why did you decide to stay a separate entity?

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:07 AM): Andy, you aren't still subscribe? ;-) (I'll send you a copy)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:08 AM): You're almost always better off on your own. You can be more profitable on less cash flow and the financial benefits are amazing.

Andy (6/15/98 9:08 AM): I don't subscribe currently.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:08 AM): Jacob, sponsorship can be very useful if you negotiate it right. For instance, I developed site content in exchange for exclusive banner ads on that content section which was geared right to my clients target market.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:09 AM): This can affect a lot of your day to day business decisions, too.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:09 AM): (sitting here listening to Madonna on the radio, eating some apricots, having fun collaborating- what a life).

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:09 AM): Jacob, you're planning to attract investors by advertising for them? Tell me about this....

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:09 AM): You got it Rob. Plus as an Internet marketing consultant, if I let one web development company have all the rights to me it cuts me out of the rest of the market.

Andy (6/15/98 9:09 AM): I'm listening to Rush Limbaugh: another school shooting in VA.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:10 AM): Tina, are you incorporated (I got Howard Stern on here)

Jacob (6/15/98 9:10 AM): Rob, not advertising FOR them, advertising on sites they might frequent to FIND them.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:10 AM): That's interesting Tina, what kind of responses have you gotten from that exclusive advertising?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:10 AM): Sole proprietor (Janis Joplin on here, Love to hate Howard)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:11 AM): Jacob, how do you LAN to proceed with them? I gotta admit, this is really off the wall...are you on NVST?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:11 AM): Tina, think about incorporating. MUCH better plan, even if you're not making a ton of dough right now...even better when you are.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:12 AM): Tina, that content for sponsorship concept is something I'm working on... have you had any luck with high traffic sites going for that type of deal?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:12 AM): I haven't thought it all the way through, it just sort of popped into my mind- using ads for something other than selling products or attracting visitors or building brand name- use it to get investors for your company/cause.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:12 AM): I just developed this one last week... we shall see... but one of the things you have to check out from the start is the current traffic of the site you want to work with and talk with them about what they are doing to promote their site.

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:12 AM): ...yes, I am on NVST

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:13 AM): Jacob how much $$$ are you looking for -- or are we getting too close to your confidential statement?

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:13 AM): sorry I am late. My first time here.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:14 AM): EV, you got a name?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:14 AM): Ira, it takes some competitive intelligence and verbal questioning to find out what the high traffic sites might go for since they know they can command the money, but it can be done.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:15 AM): No, not too close, yet. I really don't know. Find a site or three that you think people with money for your cause are checking out and try doing something more than just simple banners on the site to get them to come over to your site, where you make your "pitch" and give contact information,

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:15 AM): Evelyn Barney

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:15 AM): didn't mean to be mysterious :-)

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:15 AM): Jacob, you've got the right idea that something besides straight selling can bring the market into your site.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:16 AM): Evelyn! Pull up a chair!

Andy (6/15/98 9:16 AM): If you were looking for investors, why wouldn't you do it on YOUR site where people already know you?

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:16 AM): Sounds right, Tina... the trick is to provide content so good/original/creative that they want it...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:17 AM): So how are you matching you funding requirements to the amount of money you're seeking?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:17 AM): Right Ira... also providing the resource to keep it fresh without effort from the "partnering" site is a very appealing angle.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:17 AM): Andy, that's exactly what I'm saying, you would have your "pitch" on your existing site, but would advertise THAT page, and target the ads to potential investors.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:18 AM): Oooo, Ira, you're hitting me right where I live: it's a branding issue once again, isn't it? Not doing it better, but doing it the way noone else can.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:18 AM): Rob, what distinction do you draw between funding requirements and money being sought?

Andy (6/15/98 9:18 AM): I thought you were talking about going to other sites where investors might be hanging about...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:19 AM): Yes, Andy, that's what I thought, too, which is why I asked about NVST

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:19 AM): Rob the magician visions it again (with envelope on forehead :)

Jacob (6/15/98 9:19 AM): Andy, yeah, that's where you would place the ads.

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:19 AM): Forgive me if this is very 101, but how does one even BEGIN branding? I think about my product, a catchy name . . and then, who knows?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:20 AM): Funding requirements is a more formal proposition. You're not just looking for any money, but perhaps a value-added partner.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:21 AM): how about we have Branding 101, guys :) I sure could use it

Barb (6/15/98 9:21 AM): pardon the interjection -- does this chat mainly focus on advertising and sponsoring issues? Or do other business issues pop-up occasionally? [1st time]

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:21 AM): Rob, the issue I'm really getting at is finding a way to leverage traffic on other people's sites... I'm not really sure if this is a branding issue, although it could be

Andy (6/15/98 9:21 AM): I seem to remember seeing some rather effective ads on a while back that were looking for investors for their current technology... Will see if I can find a similar campaign.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:21 AM): You begin branding by deciding how you will make your company the ONLY choice a smart consumer could

Jacob (6/15/98 9:21 AM): Ev, I think it should start with deciding what your product and its image are, then make no apologies for it. In the beginning, my personal site ( was a stupid geek humor page, now I completely push my philosophy on the site and it is being respected more.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:21 AM): Barb, we run the gambit on Internet marketing/advertising and general business growth issues. Check out the archive when you get a chance.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:22 AM): Barb, you can ask anything that will help you in your business.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:23 AM): Okay, let's slow down and concentrate on one question at a time. barb,, do you have a question?

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:23 AM): The "make no apologies" part is important, particularly for women. We are still taught to be tentative even in the 90's!

Jacob (6/15/98 9:23 AM): Interesting Andy, I'll look into it as well. As I said, I still haven't thought it out all the way, just a new idea.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:23 AM): Keep in mind you are also encouraged to make business contacts here...

Barb (6/15/98 9:24 AM): I think I'm the only manufacturer subbed to FrankelBiz ... so am quite clueless on advertising, but wasn't sure what was discussed here. Many thanks and I'll review the archive!

Andy (6/15/98 9:24 AM): What is the name of that outfit that does the online IPOs? Used to be a brewery...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:24 AM): Barb, you're NOT the only manufacturer. There's one online as we speak...

Jacob (6/15/98 9:24 AM): I know who you mean Andy, it's on the tip of my tongue...

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:25 AM): Barb, I am a manufacturer too:)

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:25 AM): Barb, what do you manufacture? I have a service biz, in sometimes involves marketing for others, but I don't call it a marketing service.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:25 AM): Andy, I think it is something like springstreet... something or other??

Andy (6/15/98 9:25 AM): Yeah that's it..

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:26 AM): I think I can guess what the Soap Lady makes!

Barb (6/15/98 9:26 AM): My Sentiments is a division of Art a deux (art for 2 in French) and we manufacture greeting cards in Canada ... a mini-Hallmark if you will :)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:26 AM): Andy, I know who you mean, too...Spring Street but even their CEO said that his brewery was funded MAINLY from personal relationships. The online IPO thing was a publicity thing

Jacob (6/15/98 9:26 AM): Another important aspect about a brand is uniformity, you can't be everything, and make sure almost everything you do is in accordance with your brand. That was a major issue at another site I work with (

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:26 AM): See barb? I told you! And these are just a sprinkling of FrankelBees here today....

Barb (6/15/98 9:26 AM): and during the holiday season, we tend to do a lot of corporate imprinting

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:27 AM): Cool, Barb and Evelyn may have made a potential business match here!

Andy (6/15/98 9:27 AM): I thought they were making a business of it. Offering that service to others...

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:27 AM): could you expound on that Jacob, what do you mean you can't be everything?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:27 AM): Barb, you ought to try preparing a discount/promotional program for the FrankelBiz list. You'll be amazed at the response you get..

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:27 AM): They were, Andy, but as Barnum said,....

Jacob (6/15/98 9:28 AM): Everything is about Niche, soaplady, be different, be YOU, no hold barred, make no apologies. And then stick to it.

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:28 AM): Yeah Barb, if I could get a deal on nice cards for my clients, I'd be thrilled. Holiday, reminders, thank you's all sorts.

Barb (6/15/98 9:28 AM): Thanks, Rob. I've been "lurking" on the list for quite awhile and haven't decided what we could offer ... probably a big discount on 2-colour logo printing or something

Jacob (6/15/98 9:29 AM): There are a bunch of niche Mob sites on the net (really no big, well-known site like any other interest), at we sell a compilation CD. No one else is doing that.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:29 AM): Jacob is dead on, folks. And if you want to se a great site design he did, you should check out Very fun and original, and I don't plug stuff as a least not for free....

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:29 AM): I think they are, Andy. Rob, I thought it was almost the opposite, that they did get significant funding from the online IPO, and doing the IPO for the brewery was almost a practice run to see if they could create an online IPO biz.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:29 AM): well, I sure would be interested in THAT:)

Barb (6/15/98 9:29 AM): Evelyn, feel free to contact me and I'm sure I can make you a deal :)

Jacob (6/15/98 9:30 AM): (handing Rob the bribe under the table)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:30 AM): Ira, I had a client last year who wanted to do the Spring Street thing for his medial research company. WE talked to the Spring Street CEO (forgot his name) and he laid it out pretty straight...

Ev~n2u (6/15/98 9:31 AM): OK, Rob, what are the rules for contact here? do we just throw out e-mail or URL when we think we have a connect?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:31 AM): Barb, think of a program you can offer to the list...we have lots of members whose businesses are based on relationships...yes?

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:31 AM): Well, Rob, I guess that just goes to show you how much of a spin the press can put on things :)

Jacob (6/15/98 9:31 AM): But seriously, thanks Rob. We worked on Mobhits a long time. Getting the licensing, etc. Especially the website, it HAD to be different, unique, targeted, and special.

Barb (6/15/98 9:31 AM): ... and my business is about putting smiles on people's faces :)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:32 AM): Ira, it's all about perception...not necessarily grounded in reality.

Barb (6/15/98 9:32 AM): ... er, the greeting cards that is

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:33 AM): Perception creates ones own reality... and it can spread through the market.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:33 AM): And after doing, I took that ideology to my personal site (, and now I am very proud of that as well.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:33 AM): Barb, I think we also have another card manufacturer on the list, as well.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:34 AM): Tina is right. I'm actually Michael Jordan, but you'd never know it.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:34 AM): Perception is very important, no one knows who anyone else here is, working from home, an office, not to even begin talking about age.

Barb (6/15/98 9:34 AM): really, Rob? What kind of cards do they publish?

Barb (6/15/98 9:35 AM): Evelyn, what kind of business are you in?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:35 AM): Not sure, barb, but you can bet that if you post a program to the list, hell probably come out of hiding and contact you privately.

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

Andy (6/15/98 9:36 AM): Jacob, what is the point behind Looks nice, but I don't get it in my 60 second preview...

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:36 AM): Just washed my hands and I can't do a thing with them.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:36 AM): I expect that a lot of FrankelBees in the service/product sectors will surface a few months before holiday gift season...

Barb (6/15/98 9:36 AM): Rob, when you posted your subscription stats to the list, I remember seeing .1% ... I thought that was only me :)

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:36 AM): New2You is a business communications service

Jacob (6/15/98 9:37 AM): Really Andy, I just completely redid the index page this morning to give people a complete idea of the site before even getting into it (it's now a GIF animation with a few lines of text).

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:37 AM): we do all kinds of copy writing, ghostwriting, etc . . and may be about to expand into broadcast.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:37 AM): Well, it's true that mfr.'s are not a majority, but they are there. And my stats leave something to be desired. Not everyone fills out their forms accurately

Barb (6/15/98 9:38 AM): well Evelyn (and SoapLady) if you want to view the cards, please look at

Jacob (6/15/98 9:38 AM): Its all about long-term thinking and responsibility, and the frivolity of the over-hyped year 2000 (not the bug, the general feeling in society).

James Sposto (6/15/98 9:38 AM): Entered the room.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:38 AM): Jacob... the index is great... but I get to frame1.html and see just to swabs and no text?

Andy (6/15/98 9:38 AM): I must be dense. I don't get it.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:39 AM): Andy, is that open for debate? The dense part, I mean...

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:39 AM): Jacob, I'd like to hear more from you on that. But perhaps another time and place. do you have ICQ?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:39 AM): That

Jacob (6/15/98 9:39 AM): That

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:39 AM): Everyone, you should also know that James Sposto just got here. Great guy, great web designer. Knows his stuff.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:40 AM): That's weird Tina, the q-tips are a frame on the page, circling the main center frame (main.html)

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:40 AM): Rob, be good to your guests now :)

Andy (6/15/98 9:40 AM): Ha! You are indeed a joker, Rob. I'm just saying I don't understand Jacob's site. As in what is the point?

James Sposto (6/15/98 9:40 AM): Thanks Rob

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:40 AM): Cute, Jacob, I mean y2k and your take on it.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:40 AM): Ev, no ICQ. AOL- DvlsDvct or my email-

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:41 AM): You guys may want to ask Andy about his online businesses and profitability. He's seriously into what, six site now? And all of them are "for profit"

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:41 AM): got AOL too. OK, will contact you. Thanks.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:41 AM): Andy, it's all about bigger thinking, long-term, stuff like that. Not just one year down the road (the year 2000). I'm against all the hype over the year 2000 (not the bug, society's mood)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:42 AM): Andy, are all your sites revenue driven by ad banner revenue?

Andy (6/15/98 9:42 AM): We're at 5 sites. Thanks for the plug, Rob

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:42 AM): Andy! Enlighten us!

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:42 AM): Or do you have ancillary revenue streams?

Andy (6/15/98 9:42 AM): Yes, they are all driven by ad revenue. We are also looking to open up several new revenue streams.

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:43 AM): Jacob... I typed and loaded main.html. I go along with Andy... site give impression of a personal site without a sales pitch on exactly what you do or a sales pitch of any sort.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:43 AM): anything you can tell us about the new revenue streams Andy?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:43 AM): Andy... how long did it take for your ad models to produce revenue?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:44 AM): Andy, what are the main type of advertisers on your sites? What are your targeting capabilities?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:44 AM): Andy, what other rev streams you looking at?

Andy (6/15/98 9:44 AM): Tina: probably about 3-4 months.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:44 AM): Tina, there is NO sales pitch, it is a completely personal site, nothing to do with my work.

Andy (6/15/98 9:45 AM): Rob: Fees for enhanced listings on searchz, sales of some upcoming "ClickZ Reports", a fee based Online Media Kit Directory, etc.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:45 AM): Tina, for sales pitches see the last two sites I worked on-, and

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:46 AM): Jacob... gotcha.

James Sposto (6/15/98 9:46 AM): ANDY: What kind of promotion did you give your site (one example) to help justify a banners worth?

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:46 AM): Andy, a "fee based online media kit directory"??? Can you provide any details?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:46 AM): Rob, Andy just reminded me of the "" conversation we had 2 weeks ago- paying for better search listings. Interesting.

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:46 AM): Andy, since this is your area, two questions: What's this I hear about major search engines selling positions? and is it true that Infoseek is, in practice, death on Meta tags?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:47 AM): Yes, Jacob...methinks Andy is up to something competitive...yes, Andy? Is a target for you?

Andy (6/15/98 9:47 AM): Ongoing participation in relevant mailing lists, participation in conferences and trade shows... Those were my primary promotional tools. Just being a part of the community.

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:47 AM): sorry, I type slower than you guys post

Barb (6/15/98 9:47 AM): Jacob, it also looks as if RealNames will be a better approach to branding and searchability

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:48 AM): looks like the big guys are gong to win after all

Andy (6/15/98 9:48 AM): Evelyn: We're selling Top Ten and Number One listings. GoTo sells on a bid per click basis. The other ones disguise how they do it.

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 9:48 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:48 AM): For the record, I think Andy and I met via posts to a subscription list. I still haven't met him face to face....but wrote for clickz for almost a year.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:49 AM): Evelyn, I really like your cards :)

Jacob (6/15/98 9:49 AM): Soaplady, I really like RealNames. In fact, a friend and I were going to go in direct competition with them (offering better product, for free, etc.), but it is dead in the water because of lack of funding.

Andy (6/15/98 9:49 AM): Rob: No, GoTo is not a target at all. They're a sponsor. I told them about my plans months before launch. I don't have the disposition to handle a bid per click model like theirs...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:49 AM): soaplady and Evelyn: do I sense a co-partnering gift pack?

Barb (6/15/98 9:49 AM): SoapLady: not necessarily. Anyone with a "unique" (trademarkable) name and niche product or service should be able to get into the name game

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:49 AM): Sorry, Soap Lady, they are Barb's cards ;-)

Andy (6/15/98 9:50 AM): Rob: Next time in LA, I buy you dinner!

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 9:50 AM): Soaplady: got a message about "kidsoap" have you seen that yet. Interesting (big time) marketing approach, but not impossible for you to tackle if it interests you.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:50 AM): but Barb, it costs big bucks ( most of the time) to get that kind of branding

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:50 AM): oops sorry Barb

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:50 AM): oops, me too. Soaplady and Barb might have a fit here...

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:50 AM): Rob, in what sense? I think you mean SL & Barb.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:50 AM): Rob, sometimes you're like a father, nudging partnerships and contacts along on this list, bravo!

Barb (6/15/98 9:50 AM): Thanks SoapLady

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:51 AM): Andy, I accept.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:51 AM): Jacob, I'm practicing. I have three kids. ya know.

Barb (6/15/98 9:51 AM): branding and uniqueness of name are sort of 2 different things ... it doesn't have to cost mega-bucks

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:52 AM): not yet doc, no message to me?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:52 AM): Andy, by basically selling top positions, do you think websurfers will lose confidence in you because they know the top person just bought their listing? Unless you administer it very well I guess.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:52 AM): Soaplady, the big guys will not win. They will always be big guys, but how much do you need to win? This, in effect, is the whole point of the FrankelBiz project.

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:52 AM): Ok, back to 101 again: If people can bid on a top search listing, how do people without that kind of revenue get seen? I am not so naive as to think that the 'level playing field' of the web would last forever, but SHOOT! This is a little discouraging for those of us who are newish and shoestring.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:52 AM): Rob, I had no idea. Mazel Tov!

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 9:53 AM): I'll send you a copy, Soaplady, I might have to 'undelete' it but I think I saved it for you

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:53 AM): Andy, this is my concern as well.. when I surf the net, I want to look for the obscure and hard to find

Andy (6/15/98 9:53 AM): Jacob, we won't let you buy a position in an inappropriate category, and we don't pitch the enhanced listings until you've first been approved for a free one. So we are very conscientious about making sure there are nothing but quality listings..

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:53 AM): FIVE MINUTE WARNING

Andy (6/15/98 9:54 AM): SoapLady, we've turned down more submissions than we've accepted. We're trying to weed out the junk for you.

Jacob (6/15/98 9:54 AM): Soaplady, I totally agree, there are some great non-domain sites out there. That's what my friend and I were going to target, bringing them into the spotlight, but alas, lack of funding. :(

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:54 AM): On a personal note, Rob, are you a work-from-home Dad?

Andy (6/15/98 9:54 AM): We don't let sites on without their own domain.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:54 AM): how do you weed out Junk?:)

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:54 AM): Yeah, the "pay-per-listing" is really a misnomer. It's actually a "pay-per-click", which means if you get business from it, you should be able to make money on these higher-quality clicks.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 9:55 AM): Andy, do you have any early stats on SearchZ traffic?

Jacob (6/15/98 9:55 AM): That's what I meant by good administration, I think that would regain my confidence in that kind of system.

Andy (6/15/98 9:55 AM): By saying no to a bunch of submissions which I believe are inappropriate.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:55 AM): Ev, I've been totally digital since 1990. I live in the phone lines, but haven't missed a kid's school play yet..

Andy (6/15/98 9:56 AM): Still growing. Averaging 4K page impressions per day. We're up to 3700 listings.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:56 AM): Andy, is yours a pay-per-click or pay-for-ranking?

Andy (6/15/98 9:56 AM): Rob, good for you! Neither have I.

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:56 AM): Hey! Good for you Rob! It's why I went this route in the first place.

SoapLady (6/15/98 9:57 AM): hmm.. I get over 2K page impressions/day, how long do you think it will take until you are 'a really big show' aha

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:57 AM): Well, I'm here to tell you it works. It's not easy at first, but it does work.

Andy (6/15/98 9:57 AM): Pay per ranking. $100 per month for Top Ten (first page of results), $200 per month for Number One listing. But you have to be approved for the category before you can buy a position.

James Sposto (6/15/98 9:58 AM): Amen, brother Frankel...

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:58 AM): TWO MINUTES

Jacob (6/15/98 9:58 AM): On a personal note, let me just say how much I love this industry we are all in, big or small, it is such a cool thing. I love the creativity, ingenuity, innovation, everything about it.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:58 AM): Andy, any chance of you offering a special rate on searchz for FrankelBees??

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 9:58 AM): Here, Here.. why commute just for the sake of the commute?

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 9:59 AM): And I mean a LOWER rate, Andy...

Ev ~ n2u (6/15/98 9:59 AM): The funny thing to me, Jacob, is that I actually feel I have created BETTER relationships in cyber than in the face to face world (in relation to biz)

Andy (6/15/98 10:00 AM): I'll be happy to extend a 20% discount to all FrankelBees. Just identify yourself as one, and you're in. No ID required.

Jacob (6/15/98 10:00 AM): I know what you mean, every new contact I make is so invigorating.

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 10:00 AM): Okay, folks, I'm outta here for a 10:15 meeting. Please feel free to stick around, though. I'll see you online.

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:00 AM): Ira, any progress on your editing?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 10:00 AM): Thank you Andy... what's the best way to get in touch with you?

Jacob (6/15/98 10:00 AM): Another one in the bag Rob, way to go, thanks Andy!

Rob Frankel (6/15/98 10:00 AM): Andy, post it to FrankelBiz!

Andy (6/15/98 10:00 AM):

James Sposto (6/15/98 10:00 AM): BTW, Rob, I dig AD GUIDE, nicely done. Bye Rob, Bye all.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 10:01 AM): Andy, I'm gonna give that one some serious thought :)

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:01 AM): Andy, thanks for dropping in. Can we hope to see you here again?

Tina Thomas (6/15/98 10:02 AM): Thanks for the great conversation all... Hope to see everyone back here next week! SurfLady signing off...

john deters (6/15/98 10:03 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (6/15/98 10:03 AM): Doc, I'll get you a response to your last message by tomorrow. Gotta run now, bye everyone...

Andy (6/15/98 10:04 AM): Probably so, Doc.

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:04 AM): Hello, John Deters, folks are just leaving. Did you have a "time zone miscalculation" for the 9AM PDT start time?

john deters (6/15/98 10:04 AM): can anyone recommend an affiliate service?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:05 AM): Thanks, and "see you on the lists" then Andy.

john deters (6/15/98 10:05 AM): yeah I think so, I am in new Orleans in stead of east coast!

Jacob (6/15/98 10:05 AM): Andy, how many subscribers of ClickZ do you think watch Mafia movies like Casino, The Godfather, etc.?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:05 AM): John, yes, I think so, what exactly are you looking for?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:06 AM): Ira, thanks, looking forward to moving forward.

Jacob (6/15/98 10:06 AM): Guess everyone left, see you all next week!

john deters (6/15/98 10:06 AM): we are an online florist, and need to brand with the affiliate model. I've looked at a few, but it is a major commitment.

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:07 AM): John, take a look at and talk to Craig Belcher there

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:08 AM): John, if it looks interesting you can talk/email to Craig at

john deters (6/15/98 10:09 AM): gracias, doc, I will tell him you gave me the lead. any word about linkshare?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:09 AM): John, WHAT online florist are you?

john deters (6/15/98 10:10 AM):

john deters (6/15/98 10:10 AM): hey Andy, are you still in here

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:10 AM): John, I don't know all that much about affiliate programs (or affiliate software for that matter), I just know that Craig seems to be earnest and intense and might do a good job for you.

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:11 AM): John, how about wholesale flower sources? Can I recommend one to you?

SoapLady (6/15/98 10:11 AM): doc can you explain the concept to us newbies?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:12 AM): Soaplady, "affiliate programs"??

john deters (6/15/98 10:12 AM): our pitch is that we are the grower, and will ship FEDEX overnight and less than 1/2 FTD or 800flowers!

SoapLady (6/15/98 10:13 AM): is it were you have an order. if it's out of your cachement area, it goes to the nearest affiliate, and they fulfill, ?

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:13 AM): Soaplady, the best known "affiliate program" is from, in which you place a link to them on your site, and they pay you a percentage of sales that came from your site.

SoapLady (6/15/98 10:13 AM): hey, John, Would you like to offer handmade, luxurious soap and/or bath fizzies with your flowers/

Doc Williamson (6/15/98 10:14 AM): John, well actually my "source" is in Canada. A fairly large greenhouse operation, and my niece, her husband, and my ex-brother-in-law run it, so I like to feed them business if I can. Need a "Canadian subsidiary"?

SoapLady (6/15/98 10:14 AM): oh yes, now I am with you :)

john deters (6/15/98 10:15 AM): I've got to run, but you can email me at and we can see for the future...thanks, doc.

john deters (6/15/98 10:16 AM): doc, it is possible that we might wish to partner with another grower who can drop ship product for us in Canada. please provide his contact info.

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