Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic June 26, 2000

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): It's HOT, Jane! *grin* Greetings, Rob!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): Greetings all....NOBODY complain about how hot it is...Summer has really arrived in Southern California! 100+F

Jane (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): Hello Rob!

Yancey ( (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): Thanks Terri, that will make my day!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:00 AM): Large Tome, are you still here?

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): awww don't be a baby, Rob! *grin* It's been over 112 here lately!

largetom (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): in rainy Ireland as well

largetom (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): yep

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): Terri, I happen to be VERY delicate.....

Weber (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): Hot and humid in Florida

largetom (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): yep rob

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:01 AM): Well, Tom, you may go first, if you would like.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:02 AM): *laffin* well, if you're going to come to Phoenix, you better wait until December, Rob!

largetom (6/26/2000 9:02 AM): ok...are search engines still a way to market or are they passe?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:03 AM): Tom, IMHO, search engines are still the #1 way to go -- but not the ONLY way to go. The reason is that most people do start their searches there.

Jane (6/26/2000 9:04 AM): Tom, I think they are still and may always be a way to market, but gosh not the only way to go. You need to use a multi pronged strategy!

largetom (6/26/2000 9:04 AM): all the engines?...or just the big ones rob?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:04 AM): That having been said, I can tell you that I have NEVER paid anyone to list my sties and I get ALL my business through the web. Or at least most of it.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:04 AM): Tom, I don't know if you have a big or small business, but I make it a point of setting aside 15 minutes every single work day, for doing nothing other than finding a new place to list my site. Just one per day.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:05 AM): I check rankings of other competitors to see if I have slipped or risen and adjust accordingly. But once a day over the course of a year adds up.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:05 AM): we don't have a big budget rob...but obviously everything has to be value for money...I get very confused some times because so many gurus recommend different approaches

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:06 AM): BUYING rankings is a loser's deal, though. Hiring an SEO expert is a good idea, fi you find the right people for it. It's a business fraught with quacks; you really have to know who's good and who sucks.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:06 AM): sounds like a consistent approach

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:07 AM): Tom, you probably know who's looking for you and where they're looking. Match that up with a good SEO outfit and you should come out okay. But if your budget is really small, chances are they won't do much more for you than software or your own typing fingers would.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:07 AM): also I think our site is too u agree?"

globalmerchant (6/26/2000 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:08 AM): Incidentally, a really good tactic to give you a clue as to who finds you interesting is the old "link://" trick on Alta Vista.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:09 AM): I've heard of it...thanks rob

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:09 AM): Tom, I just sent you back a reply to your form. Your site isn't dry, it just needs to communicate faster as to what it does and why I should love it so much. People don't know unless you tell them, clearly. That's branding.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:10 AM): thanks again rob

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:10 AM): My point about Alta Vista is that when you see who links to you, you get a clue as to how and where to first attack your listing strategy. I used it to identify people who might want to become affiliates for my book.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:12 AM): Epodowski, you still here? Anything I can do for you?

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:12 AM): Rob, can you explain more about that - "how and where to first attack" ? I understand the identifying affiliates part using the link: strategy :)

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:13 AM): Sure, Terri. It's fascinating to see who has linked to your site and why. I happened to find that it wasn't so much about marketing per se as it was the general nature and approach I took to whatever it was they linked to.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:14 AM): That alone helped me shape the letter I wrote inviting them to become affiliates. The result was a much higher response rate, because I wasn't writing out of the blue.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:14 AM): Yes, that definitely works - using a very personalized approach!

Glenda (6/26/2000 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

epodowski (6/26/2000 9:15 AM): Yes, I am still here! I read an article you wrote and was very interested in creating a brand. So I decided to join everyone today and listen to some ideas.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:15 AM): The second part was identifying what KIND of sites were linking. Naturally, none were competitive sites. But when you see who IS linking, it gives you a better idea of other means to approach markets that would find you attractive. I ended up getting book reviews and links on web hosting "tips and tricks" sites, for example.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:15 AM): Others were designers, develops and so forth -- people who could well recommend my services to their clients.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:16 AM): Okay, epodowski...of course, you may actually hear more abuse than advice, but everything is fair game here....

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:16 AM): Writing your own articles and listing "them" in the search engine has gotten me links that I never would have thought of!

Yancey ( (6/26/2000 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:16 AM): for what it's worth I just contacted 6 farmers today who will let me put up roadside billboards beside the main motorway here...50 000people a day...really good value too!!!!!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:18 AM): Interesting you should bring that up, Terri. Tom, this is good for you, too. I make it a habit of creating one page per article that I store on my site at the top level of the site. It makes it much easier to for spiders and robots to index for just that reason, Terri. I'm constantly amazed at how they show up in searches.

Weber (6/26/2000 9:18 AM): Are you posting the articles on your site? What is the difference between writing a web page and an article posted on your site? (6/26/2000 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:19 AM): Tom, just make sure each board has something ACTIONABLE for those 50,000 individuals to do. Just showing them something with no compelling action is a waste of your money. (6/26/2000 9:19 AM): Great idea with the billboards largetom - they're letting you do that for free?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:20 AM): Weber, some folks post all their articles on page, believe it or not. Others hide them in lower level directories where spiders and robots may not dive.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:20 AM): Weber, every article I write is posted on it's own page and the page title is always "Article: name of article of author" It works for me! And of course, the META keywords are relevant to the article content

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:20 AM): Tom, we want those drivers clicking. So make SURE you have something on the board that rewards them for logging on. Make it a code or something so you can track it. Then give them a reward.

largetom (6/26/2000 9:20 AM): only a couple of hundred quid and I get exclusivity..nobody had approached them do u mean exactly rob?

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:20 AM): Rob, Fraser in UK here. Question, helping a friend's business, launching web promotions business. Branding thru to propensity for the brand/client, content for web media owner, consumer wins branded products. Any case studies from USA ?

Weber (6/26/2000 9:21 AM): So it is basically just a web page but you have author credit?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:21 AM): Terri, you should reconsider that. I Always title everything "Rob Frankel: <Title of Article>" So that I come up by name lots more often. The title almost always contains a keyword.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): yes, it is just a web page, Weber - and like Rob, I put it into the top level of my directory

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): Fraser, hold that question for a minute, okay? (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): Rob, we're going to be the "Cool Site of the Day" on Thursday from, do you have any suggestions on how we can take advantage of this?

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): ok

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): Terri, you know what the #1 comment I get from new business people who call me from the web is?

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): good suggestion Rob! I'll start doing that!

largetom (6/26/2000 9:22 AM): Gotcha rob...thanks

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:23 AM): nope! what? *smile*

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:23 AM): Hold that question just a sec, Daily....

Weber (6/26/2000 9:23 AM): Thanks Terri

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:24 AM): People very often call me and say, "I typed in "branding and your name popped up all over the place". Which is exactly what gets them thinking, "Hey, this guy is all over the place-- he must be good!"

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:24 AM): I'm trusting you all to NOT tell them the truth....

Jane (6/26/2000 9:25 AM): Rob, you got me LOL - but a lot of good points here!!

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:25 AM): *laffin* Rob, I about burst with pride when "one" editor told me I was "quoted all over the Net"

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:25 AM): Okay, Fraser, I'm not sure I understand your question, Can you restate it for me -- very simply?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:25 AM): DailyRate, you're next... (6/26/2000 9:26 AM): Great, thanks Rob!

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:26 AM): are there agencies in USA who link brands/products to web sites/media owners and provide content/promotions ?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:27 AM): Wow, Fraser, I think you're talking about product placement. And yes, there are people who do this, but I must warn you, they aren't exactly Boy Scouts.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:28 AM): The worst of breed are to be found in the movie and TV business, with the music industry coming in a close third. Most of them take any fee you have and vary in their results -- which almost never pan out.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:29 AM): If you're looking for a way to get fired, hiring one of the agencies (promotion agencies) is a good way to go about it, mainly because they hardly ever produce trackable, bottom line results that pay out.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:30 AM): And if you think they going to barter services, forget it. You're MUCH better off contacting your target partner directly. And go through the MARKETING people not the ADVERTISING people. Marketing folks do those kinds of plans; ad people don't.

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:30 AM): exactly my point, what if you could be trackable !

Michael Kimsal ( (6/26/2000 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:31 AM): Fraser, the point is that 99% of the "promotion agencies' I've worked with have no idea about true entrepreneurial concerns. They're in the business of making the deals, NOT making sure the deals produce.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:32 AM): They also charge very high fees...after all , someone has to pay for the glass-walled offices and validated parking.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:33 AM): I did one such promotion for Steven Spielberg's dismal "Gameworks" product. Sitting around the table were people who made more money in a year than many foreign countries, and NONE of them knew what they were doing -- or why.

Fraser McCulloch (6/26/2000 9:33 AM): thanks for that

largetom (6/26/2000 9:33 AM): and the suits

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:33 AM): As you might expect, GAMEWORKS is hardly a huge success.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:34 AM): Daily, let's talk about calcite of the Day.... (6/26/2000 9:35 AM): We're expecting between 5,000-10,000 visitors from them - how can we best leverage the exposure?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:36 AM): Cool Site of the Day USED to be hip. Before there were millions of sites with which you could link. My best advice is that your traffic will very likely be newbies. So structure a program that will catch them as they come in.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:37 AM): I should point out that links from these kinds of sites -- like banners, for the most part -- tend to suck in the less sophisticated types. After all , how many people here actually buy anything from a banner?

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:38 AM): Actually, Rob - I DID buy a vidcam that I saw on a banner *grin*

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:38 AM): Given that's the case, I suggest getting them to your sign up form as quickly as possible, so that you can build your user base before they get wise. I think --without knowing your site -- that would be the most tactically effective thing for you to do. (6/26/2000 9:38 AM): OK, that's good to know - thanks!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:38 AM): Okay, Terri....I've got some swamp land in Florida if you'll just click over here.....

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:39 AM): Anyway, DailyRate, that would give you the muscle to market stuff to them in subsequent promotions. You can NEVER have too many people on your list!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:39 AM): As long as you're here, you want to tell us what DailyRating is about?

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:40 AM): LOL well, I think that visitors will click banners that happen to coincide with something they are already looking for, and the price is right and the banner is right :) (6/26/2000 9:40 AM): Yes, agreed. We're also going to be in Wired next month, so we're pretty psyched.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:40 AM): Yes, Terri, I agree 100%. (6/26/2000 9:40 AM): Sure! DailyRating is an online journal and personal rating service that allows you to track information about your life using email.

epodowski (6/26/2000 9:41 AM): Rob, why does everyone seem to use banners in their marketing campaign if they do not work? Is there something more effective? (6/26/2000 9:41 AM): Track your weight, blood pressure, how much time you spend with your kids, etc. All through interactive email. The service is free to end users and we license it to other Web sites.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:41 AM): That's cool. I have a couple of URL's I'm holding for journaling client!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:42 AM): Epodowski -- can I call ya Epo? -- the reason is that nobody in the business really A. understands business B. is held accountable C. Thinks that if they do what everyone else does, they can't get fired.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:42 AM): The correct answer, of course, is D. All of the above.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:42 AM): Wow, DailyRating! You should hook up with Richard Simmons' site! :)

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:43 AM): Epo, it works the same way in offline media. Clients see their competition buying TV and think they should buy TV, too, even though they have no idea whether or not it's working. (6/26/2000 9:43 AM): I would love to talk to him, Terri! There is no easier way to keep an online journal than our site. You sign up for a question, we send you email, you reply. All the results are stored back at our site. (6/26/2000 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:44 AM): Daily, journaling has been proven to increase the effectiveness of all kinds of training. I believe it's a sleeper that will take off big when HR hits the web in a more focused fashion.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:45 AM): When it does, if you want to license your software, come see me about (6/26/2000 9:45 AM): where is there more info on journaling?

epodowski (6/26/2000 9:45 AM): It's like a follow the leader strategy, but don't follow me because I am lost too! (6/26/2000 9:46 AM): I wish we could find some investors who think like you Rob!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:47 AM): Hey, I wish I could find investors who think like me! It would make all our lives easier! (6/26/2000 9:47 AM): LOL - so true

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:48 AM): There you go, Daily. A few minutes ago I was talking about product placement deals with Fraser. With investors, it's the same thing. They're interested in the deal not the business.

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 9:48 AM): Daily, just go to I think. I think journaling would be a GREAT benefit to offer on my recruiting site!

Yancey ( (6/26/2000 9:48 AM): Rob, there is, with automatic updating for web logs.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:49 AM): on top of that, they want BIG deals, not little $5 million droplets. They have visions of grandeur. Can't say that I blame them -- it takes as much to foster a small deal as big ones.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Jane (6/26/2000 9:50 AM): Entered the room. (6/26/2000 9:50 AM): Rob..are you open for discussion on any other 'messenger' services? AIM/MSN/YAHOO, etc.?

Jane (6/26/2000 9:50 AM): Can I ask A burning question on another topic?

epodowski (6/26/2000 9:51 AM): Can banner help with a brand? Are those little icons on a web effective in helping to establish a brand? i.e. powered by...

largetom (6/26/2000 9:51 AM): just got your feedback rob....thanks

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:51 AM): Burn away...

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:52 AM): Yes, Epo, they can, if used judiciously. It's a question of implementation and what you're trying to accomplish. I think it works fine for Intel.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:52 AM): Inktomi uses it well, too.

Jane (6/26/2000 9:52 AM): Thanks!! I have a client that I am doing marketing for who want me to build strategic alliances- deal making!! It has huge potential. I think I should get a fee plus commission or incentive. Not sure how much- want a simple but fair plan. Ideas?

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:52 AM): Inktomi uses it well,, but I charge for those AIM conferences and such.

epodowski (6/26/2000 9:53 AM): Thanks! (6/26/2000 9:53 AM): anything you can get on other web sites is a great branding tool - look at Verisign for the ultimate example

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:53 AM): Mitch, that should have read" Yes, I do AIM stuff, but I charge for those services." (6/26/2000 9:54 AM): Mick..not Mitch. But I have been called worse!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:55 AM): Jane, structure the deal so that you can do well WITHOUT the client paying you the participation. A high percentage of these deals go south, with the client wanting to "renegotiate" after he sees how much of a check he owes you. Personally, I rarely do participation deals, because clients don't always follow my recommendations. As a results, if the program gets wrecked, I would have to take the hit.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:55 AM): Sorry, Mick. Don't feel too bad. My father in-law still calls me Ron... (6/26/2000 9:56 AM): on the DigitalConvergence deal....she asked me to post that message. Maybe she forgot...or forgot who I was.

Jane (6/26/2000 9:57 AM): Rob, I agree and don't work on commission only - "pie in the sky stock options" but is there a formula?.

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:57 AM): Mick, only post your stuff to FrankelBiz. Posting for a third party will get rejected every time. (6/26/2000 9:58 AM): I'm glad that it did get rejected now......

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:58 AM): Jane, I charge my regular fee. If I really believe in the people, I might discount a little bit in exchange for some meaningful participation. For example, I did one deal a few months ago, where I took a discount but got 2% of the company. I have no idea if the company will make it, but I believe in the guys. (6/26/2000 9:58 AM): .....Thanks

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Jane (6/26/2000 9:59 AM): thanks Rob!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 9:59 AM): Okay folks, it's off to the races! great session and thanks to our lewest guests! I'll see you all online!

RobFrankel ( (6/26/2000 10:00 AM): Ooops...I men our "newest" guests!

Terri Robinson ( (6/26/2000 10:00 AM): Great session today, Rob!! Thanks again for all the great advice! See you all next week!

Jane (6/26/2000 10:00 AM): ciao!! (6/26/2000 10:00 AM): thanks Rob!

largetom (6/26/2000 10:00 AM): cheers rob

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