Frederick (bspage.com) (7/15/2002 9:02 AM): Welcome, Bob - this is a good place to meet some interesting business people

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (7/15/2002 9:02 AM): hi Jodie !

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Yosef Rabinowitz (yosef@suddenvision.com) (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Whoa, sorry I'm late. Had to brew the coffee myself this morning, and well.....

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Hi, Happy Monday

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Hi Yosef, I just emailed the update

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): HI Jonathan!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:03 AM): Jonathan, someone was looking for a copywriter the other day and I referred you....

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:04 AM): and good morning Rob

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (7/15/2002 9:04 AM): Thank you Rob.

Yosef Rabinowitz (yosef@suddenvision.com) (7/15/2002 9:04 AM): Thanks, Allen Weber

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:04 AM): Sooooo, who's up first today? Anyone new here that wants to jump in first?

Yosef Rabinowitz (yosef@suddenvision.com) (7/15/2002 9:04 AM): Good morning, Rob. It's good to be back!

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:05 AM): I'm having an issue with pricing...

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:05 AM): Not new but long absent :). I am trying to refocus my business and brand. I do a lot of teaching for entrepreneurs, not sure it is going to limit myself to that market, who may have less money than fortune 100-500 companies.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:06 AM): Okay, Jane, . Why don't you go first

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:07 AM): Thanks! I guess that one of the questions is - will branding myself as "the entrepreneur's marketing /technology expert make larger companies think I can't service them.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:07 AM): Good morning, folks.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:08 AM): I also do a lot of seminar planning and events, so tying myself to my online strategy and marketing excludes that.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:09 AM): Yup, Jane, we have some heavy surgery to do here. Not pretty

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:09 AM): scaring me rob!

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:09 AM): should these be sub brands of a very strong :) brand!?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:10 AM): From where I sit, I can tell you that the entrepreneur market is a very tough one in which to make money. They're a lovely group of people but rarely have money to invest on anything past their own businesses, which means you have to have a LOT of them buying little affordable stuff.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:10 AM): Now you know why I have so many products and services priced under $50, most under $25.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:10 AM): yes, that is a big concern

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:10 AM): I resemble Rob's remark - that is the market I go after in my primary business

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:11 AM): Entrepreneurs are used to relying on themselves for input.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:11 AM): Jane I just tried to subscribe to your newsletter and got an internal server error!

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:11 AM): And have trouble shelling cash for ideas, I think .

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:11 AM): A few will eventually come forward with some serious revenue opportunities for you. And they are a loyal group. But in terms of your own business strategy, realize that it's not a one client/one big fee market

bobking (7/15/2002 9:12 AM): so why do so many of us go after that market? Is it because we don'

bobking (7/15/2002 9:12 AM): don't feel confident enough of our companies to service large companies?

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:12 AM): yes, but many have ideas and hate sales and marketing, I show them how to make it less painful and fun and , or they hire me to do it for them.e that fun for them or d

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:13 AM): I'm not Rob, who's the expert, Bob, but I'd guess it's because you can relate. YOU'RE an entrepreneur, too.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:13 AM): To make matters worse, now you're organizing seminars. So what's the real take away here?

MichaelCage (7/15/2002 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:14 AM): Bob, you're right about entrepreneurs. I've learned a lot that many are hard workers, but often afraid of success.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:14 AM): This is my first visit, by the way. Pardon if I'm too... aggressive. Not sure on the faux pas here.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:14 AM): Why is that worse? I love what I do and people always want more information. Don't always know what they don't know.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:14 AM): Or even how to spell faux pas. ;-)

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:15 AM): i have worked with larger companies, successfully,- currently fear a bit of the selling cycle being much longer... more than fear going after them, or I think that 's what it is

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:15 AM): No doubt about it, Jane.. Selling to big companies is a much longer sale. I budget on at least six months, if not more, from introduction to sale

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:16 AM): This is why deal flow is SO important. Almost as important as cash flow.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:16 AM): I'd still guess it's fear of the unknown. You know little companies, you are one... less familiar with giant corps.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:16 AM): Jane, your main issue is deciding what business you want to be in.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:16 AM): I suspect that you're getting cash from the business you ARE in, but not enough. And you can see the big bucks in the business you want to be in, but can't make the jump

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:17 AM): Yes, this is not a new concept. I guess I am afraid that I won't be able to make a living *just* doing marketing strategy.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:17 AM): And the biggest issue is setting up your business structure so that you can accurately gage your success when you move forward with one or the other.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:18 AM): Jane, there's almost NO money is marketing strategy anymore, unless it can be tied to ROI. This economy is too stagnant for anything else.

Lyman Stucky (LStucky@ix.netcom.com) (7/15/2002 9:19 AM): Jane, speaking as an entrepreneur who has actually started a bootstrap biz, hired employees, sweated payroll every payday----the smaller, the more incremental you can make your purchase increments for the little guys, the better. But you can't stay alive on tiny sales with small profits--unless you do them in volume, which means you've got to have a "scalable" generic aspect AND some efficiencies of production...short sales cycles and easy to get in the door are the advantage...the alternative is a long sales cycle and the risk of relying on one or several clients for your entire survival. Find what you love doing/what you do best and roll with it...

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:19 AM): okay, thanks Rob and company

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (7/15/2002 9:19 AM): Same with any type of business service, Rob...has to show on the bottom line, and be sold as such.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:19 AM): The days of billing for "soft time" are over.

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com Professional Web Tracking) (7/15/2002 9:19 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:20 AM): Jane, I strongly recommend that you sit down with someone and really spreadsheet this out. Weigh the long term benefits, because that's what we're talking about. I don't mind telling you that I just went through it myself, and it's not easy, but it does work. It can get very disheartening. But do remember this: THE LAST MAN STANDING WINS THE GAME

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): And the last gal standing!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): Jane, this is the ENTIRE reason for my inventing i-legions, which is just beginning to get traction now

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): I have a branding question. Let me know when it's my turn. ;)

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): :-)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): Well, of course. What 's the point of being the last man if there aren't any women?

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): and Rob, is this a good Frankel call or not?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): Eric, you can go now!

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:21 AM): Rob I have a question about lead generation when you're ready

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:22 AM): John, you're after Eric.

Jeffrey Schlesinger (sales@tracertags.com) (7/15/2002 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:22 AM): Jane, this is exactly what FrankelCalls are for.

Jane Tabachnick, jt@stratedgy.com (7/15/2002 9:22 AM): clear your calendar, roll up your sleeves.....

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:23 AM): 1. We wish to brand ourselves as the "quality" choice. We sell pool fence, keeps kids from drowning. Price wars are big, but we're purposefully more expensive/better. Trying to better give the quality brand.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:24 AM): Give us a URL Eric, so we can all see where you are so far....

Gary Hiden (7/15/2002 9:24 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:24 AM): That shouldn't be hard, Eric.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:24 AM): www.poolfence.com -- sorry

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:25 AM): Great.. okay, please continue

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:26 AM): Got a specific question Eric?

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:26 AM): 2. Unrelated, just curious. What'd you think when Hal Alpiar wrote: "Next, I must say that the idea that selling is simply a matter of articulating a brand in a compelling way and delivering on the brand promise is an idea born in fantasyland, and probably originates from an extremely limited working knowledge of what branding is, and how to achieve it." -- replying to you.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:26 AM): Optional answer. Decline if you want. ;)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:27 AM): I think he's a very bitter man, mainly....The guy is in his late fifites and still priding himself over a jingle he wrote for hot dogs 30 years ago....

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:27 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:28 AM): Eric, regarding #1, I can tell you that your biz really could use a stronger brand. It's just begging for it.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:28 AM): I had trouble believing he invented the girl being undressed by a dog.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:28 AM): #1's the real question. The other was just for fun, sorry to sidetrack.

MichaelCage (7/15/2002 9:28 AM): Eric, "quality" is a meaningless generality IMO -- everyone claims "quality." If I'm targeting parents with kids and a pool, I'd rather be known as the "child saving company" or something that articulates a benefit of your product/service, not a feature of it.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:29 AM): Pool fencing is a motherhood issue: there's no argument against it. Very emotional. Yet when I'm at your site, I see no reference as to why I should see your company as the only solution to my problem. And yours is a perfect pitch: we're talking about spending money to protect my kids! There is NO budget for that!

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:29 AM): Well, certain brands scream quality. Mercedes, Rolex, BMW.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:29 AM): Michael is right. Boy, Eric, you could be doing so much more!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:30 AM): Eric, essentially, I as a prospect am asking, "Why should I trust you with my kids?" That's a very powerful issue.

MichaelCage (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): Eric, when I look at your site I think...and forgive me if some find this distasteful...scare the living h*ll out of any parent who happens upon it. Most aren't thinking, hey I have a pool now I need a pool fence, but if you point out what may happen if they don't...those "Fear" motivations are damn powerful.

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): Eric, it can also help to avoid lawsuits when the neighbors kid acts like an idiot and goes for a midnight dip in your pool while drunk and drowns

Jodie@ScoreBrowniePoints.com (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): Eric - you need to sell to my parents... even through your brand is not strong - as a mother of a toddler, all those things hit home - I cringe visiting my parents an their pool

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): Our focus is on safety. We were a child-proofing company first. There's articles on the site we first had in a book about child-proofing the home.

Lyman Stucky (LStucky@ix.netcom.com) (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): Eric, if you could get a few better live chats going on, you could scroll that in a box on your homepage, but don't use the stuff you've got...it's rather lame..step in as a Moderator and have a Question of the Day/Week...lead it..

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:31 AM): I'm looking for ways to do more.

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (7/15/2002 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:32 AM): Eric, you just exposed the main issue when you said, "Our focus is on safety." Eric, do you have kids?

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:33 AM): We've never had live chats/ Our traffic doesn't really qualify us, though we get a ton for our field. I attempted a message board once with little interest.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:33 AM): Nobody spends money on safety. EVERYONE spends money on fear.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:33 AM): No, I don't. I've lied before, however. ;)

bobking (7/15/2002 9:33 AM): I apologize to the group for having to walk out early. Believe me is in no way a reflection of my opinion of the quality of material being offered. I just have a client calling at 12:00 central and I need to prepare. I plan on returning and getting more involved over the next few weeks.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:34 AM): From a purely web site design point of view, why does your logo stop, you've got the whole of the top of the window to build your brand why aren't you using it?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:34 AM): When I was a copywriter, I wrote for The Right Start Catalog, which catered to pregnant, newborns and toddlers. 90% of the products were worthless, preying on parental fears.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:34 AM): Scare tactics are a bad thing in this industry... you sell the idea, then they jump to the other company.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:34 AM): Those useless products are part of the reason.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:34 AM): Eric, you're simply missing the big hot button here. You can be premium priced if parents consider you worthy of looking after their kids.

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:35 AM): What is Eric's URL? Sorry, I arrived late. Thx.

MichaelCage (7/15/2002 9:35 AM): Eric, there has GOT to be more to that story. If you sell them on the idea and they don't buy, you are missing a big part of the sales equation that is not that fault of something that successfully "sells the idea."

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:35 AM): No Eric, Gotta disagree with you here. This is part of the brand strategy. Because there's no real brand strategy here, there's n opportunity for you to continue the relationship with customers after they buy.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:35 AM): I dabbled in fear for the first time into using: www.poolfence.com/directletter.htm

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:35 AM): poolfence.com

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:36 AM): www.poolfence.com

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:36 AM): Eric, it's not fear, exactly, we're talking about. It plays second fiddle to "to whom do you trust your kids' welfare" The same story works for day care centers and baby sitters.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:37 AM): Eric, if you had a strong brand strategy, the extensions and products and services begin to occur naturally, you'll see.

Lyman Stucky (LStucky@ix.netcom.com) (7/15/2002 9:37 AM): Eric, a lot of pool cleaning services could "bird-dog" for you, they see whether or not fences are installed--and there are laws everywhere requiring them...you could pay a buck a lead...then help the homeowners "solve their safety issues and avoid citations too" ...

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/15/2002 9:37 AM): Eric, the continued relationship can be had with a discussion forum, but you have to be active in it yourself. Logon as different people and hold conversations with yourself. In time, other will come

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:37 AM): I know you're new here today, Eric, but I mean it -- yours is one of the best examples of brand potential I've ever seen. Really. Just begging for it.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:38 AM): I find using fear to persuade risky. We're talking about dying toddlers. An ad ran by a competitor featuring a child floating in a pool -- the press it got was painful to watch, even as a competitor.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:38 AM): Don't forget, too,. that parents are among the BEST evangelists. Nothing spreads the words faster than a happy Mom

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:38 AM): Fred, I've never had to do that. Stay honest. Do what's right. You don't need to fluff it up.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:39 AM): Ack, Eric, we have to let John ask his question now. But between poolfence and my coffee, I'm all hopped up!

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:39 AM): We do this currently, Lyman. Rather, our dealers do.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:39 AM): John, you want to go now?

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:39 AM): my question is really quite simple, I've been told on this forum that the best way to get business is to network and I have duly made my offer to Bees with no results, so I've been cold mailing potential clients (small garages etc) with limited success, 1 sale from 150 mails, is there a better way?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:40 AM): Eric, I would NEVER run an ad like that. But it can be done leveraging ALL the emotions a parent understands

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:40 AM): John, did you read today's FrankelTips?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:40 AM): It was all about cold e-mailing with great results

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:40 AM): no Rob I'm not a subscriber I'm afraid :-(

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:40 AM): Get back if there's a lull after John's question, Rob.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:41 AM): John, today's issue alone is worth the price, I kid you not. From a tactical point of view. I just did a cold e-mail and got killer results.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:42 AM): John, your main issue is still that you haven't identified why Fatfriar is the only solution. So people can't figure out why they should contact you. That's why it didn't work in either effort

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:42 AM): Rob I'm not insensible to the benefits of getting it I just don't have any funds at the moment

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:42 AM): Okay Eric

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:42 AM): Entered the room.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/15/2002 9:43 AM): You're going to jump on me again, I know, but for the newbies present, there are some people who think 'e-mail cold calling' is a clever new name for spam.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:43 AM): Rob I thought I'd covered that with the new branding

Pat Hardy (www.phardy.com) (7/15/2002 9:43 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:44 AM): Here's the thing John: One person responded to me and told me that "nobody is going to take that bobbing head seriously." And he's right. Some won't. But some do. The point is that by driving a stake into the ground and saying, "here's what I do and here's why I'm different" will drive some away, but also bring some closer.

Pat Hardy (www.phardy.com) (7/15/2002 9:44 AM): Did everyone subscribed to FrankelTips get their e-mail message today? Mine was missing the entire body.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:44 AM): John, what you did wasn't a new brand; it was a new layout. Here's the test: why are you the ONLY solution to my problem?

Pat Hardy (www.phardy.com) (7/15/2002 9:45 AM): Rob - I subscribe to FrankelTips, but everything after "In this issue" was cut off from the e-mail.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:45 AM): Pat, really? Give me your e-mail again. I know we've had trouble with your address before. I can forward you another

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (7/15/2002 9:45 AM): Yeah, John -- why should Rob hire you instead of my web programmer (my partner)? Why you specifically?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:45 AM): John, you need to network further than FrankelBiz.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:45 AM): Send it off chat though

Pat Hardy (www.phardy.com) (7/15/2002 9:46 AM): Rob - services@phardy.com

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:46 AM): Rob obviously I'm not, I'm just another web development company I just make sites that clients like within their budgets that add value to their businesses

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:46 AM): Hey, Rob, I'm off for a minute, not sure I'll be back after 1 EST. How would you like to follow-up without me having to start selling sperm/blood/organs. Wait 'til next Monday or send an email?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:46 AM): John, before you can answer that question, you have to identify what your prospects' PROBLEM is. Last week, we ended on a really cool note: I said, "Your prospects have to recognize themselves in your solution." For that, you have to know their problem.

Jeffrey Schlesinger (sales@tracertags.com) (7/15/2002 9:46 AM): Entered the room.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): John, check out Guru.com. There are a lot of web development jobs there.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): E-mail is fine to follow up Eric. We'll work something out

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): Nice quote for the next book.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): I've identified my clients problem in my second para, web sites that cost a lot but don't add anything to the business

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): Fatfriar, in this horrific economy, everyone wants a deal. Starting out that the minimum is 5,000 pounds -- without saying what you get for that -- AND you're in Europe are two reasons some in U.S. may not want to do business. Rob is right. You haven't shown why YOU are the best solution.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:47 AM): So John, what it boils down to is that you're spending your time and money and effort broadcasting the same message as everyone else. THAT'S why response is so poor.

Eric Lupton (7/15/2002 9:48 AM): Alright, Rob. Adios.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:48 AM): John, you said "I've identified my clients problem in my second para". That's the problem. It has to be in your brand strategy.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:48 AM): Lorilyn my site states that sites start at £400 not £5000

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:49 AM): Whoops!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:49 AM): John, I really think your site shouldn't mention prices at all. You can allude to good value, but stay away from fixed prices. It's giving people permission not to go further.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:49 AM): John, how are your meta tags? That may help drive visitors to you.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:49 AM): well I gave the solution in my first para

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:49 AM): I agree with Rob.

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (7/15/2002 9:50 AM): But if Lorilyn made that mistake -- will others? There must be some reason she got that idea.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:50 AM): I took the prices off the home page specifically in response to that comment Rob

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:51 AM): I don't have prices on my site. Of course, this upset one FrankelBiz member.

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:51 AM): I checked the site 2 hours ago -- faulty memory AND was trying to figure out what the U.S. equivalency was.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:51 AM): I'm not trying to compete on price any more, I'm trying to compete on service

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:51 AM): John: Really listen here: one paragraph mention does not make a brand. You have to take a larger look at your business and develop a brand strategy . everything from the name to its practice. And you have to figure out why Fatfriar is the ONLY solution. Simply fixing a layout or a logo doesn't cut it.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:52 AM): I think you should have prices SOMEWHERE on site or it is upsetting, as if you treat clients differently.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:52 AM): John, then do something with the service that comes across in a meaningful and compelling way. A way that quickly lets people know, "I like the way this guy does business."

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:52 AM): Rob is there a book on this I can get from the library?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:53 AM): Lorilyn, I make only one mention of price in my service descriptions, precisely because no two clients are alike.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:53 AM): John, Rob's book is the best on this and well worth the price.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:54 AM): Only if your library carries the Revenge of Brand X. You can request your library to order it. make sure you use this number: (ISBN 0967991218) clipping

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 9:54 AM): Rob, yes, it depends on the service. But giving some idea of it, as you do, is important.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:54 AM): I've tried to tie the whole site into my service ethic, with things like see how we helped this business.... etc

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:54 AM): The ISBN will make sure they get what they're looking for quickly.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (7/15/2002 9:54 AM): Lorilyn - on pricing/clients, read 1 To 1 Marketing - all about servicing each client as if they were unique

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:55 AM): I've added help for business owners

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:55 AM): How about, "we are with you every step of the way." People see web developers as too distant.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:55 AM): John, ethic is WOVEN into the brand; prospects are looking for solutions. Ethics aren't the specific solution they seek. You have to really get into their heads and answer the questions they're asking.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:55 AM): My latest testimonial reads like a love letter, and I didn't even write it

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): Then put that testimonial on the home page!

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): Alright, I'm back for the 4 minutes.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): Even the love letters have to speak about how you delivered on your brand promise; how you were the only brand to solve their problem. That's when testimonials work best.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): Check out your competitors. See what they are saying that you can do better.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:56 AM): but then I won't have room for espousing my company USP

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:57 AM): That's why defining the brand is so important, John. People will read your brand promise and say, "Oh yeah? Prove it." Then WHAM! You sock 'em with the proof.

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 9:57 AM): Home pages can be any length, John. :)

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:58 AM): how do you espouse brand promise?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:58 AM): John, you can see that without a clear compelling brand strategy, it's really hard work. Focus on writing one sentence -- make it as boring as you like, not clever -- as to why people should see you as the ONLY solution to THEIR problem. Don't write about what you're selling, write about why they should be buying.

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 9:58 AM): John, put testimonials in the text of your pages. For example look at what we did with the following page http://www.emperorsherbologist.com/buy-stevioside.htm

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 9:59 AM): TWO MINUTES

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 9:59 AM): i mean Nike doesn't say anything to me its just a word yet they have no problem with their branding

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 10:00 AM): Should testimonials be on the first page or somewhere (clearly marked) on the site?

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 10:00 AM): I hate Nike's branding. :/

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 10:00 AM): I say throughout and have a testimonials page or pages as well

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 10:00 AM): Anita, I think there should be a link on the home page.

Fatfriar (john.anslow@fatfriar.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): God this is hard !

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): I think testimonials work best interwoven.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): Ack! I've got a 10 AM call, So I've got to run. I'll see you all online! Thanks for coming!

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): You should use testimonials from your customers whenever they prove your point or back it up

Yosef Rabinowitz (yosef@suddenvision.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): Bye!

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): bye Rob :0

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): Bye Rob

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): NO, should be link from home page.

Lyman Stucky (LStucky@ix.netcom.com) (7/15/2002 10:01 AM): g'day all !

Eric Lupton (eric@poolfence.com) (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): I'll email you, Rob.

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): Nobody wants to read on the Web.

weber jajagroup.com (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): Take care all.

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): Bye everyone!

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): Thanks! See you online!

Lorilyn Bailey - NewsBuzz.com (7/15/2002 10:02 AM): Bye.

Pat Hardy (www.phardy.com) (7/15/2002 10:03 AM): Goodbye.