Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic July 20, 1998

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:00 AM): Yoo Hoo, anyone home?

trafficx (7/20/98 9:00 AM): Good morning!

Jacob (7/20/98 9:00 AM): Hello!

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:01 AM): Okay, I'm gonna try to do this WITHOUT my coffee...what's going on?

Jacob (7/20/98 9:01 AM): I've missed this chat sooo much. Haven't been here in three weeks.

trafficx (7/20/98 9:01 AM): Are there many web design/web service Frankelbees?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:02 AM): Well, Believe me, there's a TON about to happen on FrankelBiz....

Jacob (7/20/98 9:02 AM): trafficx, I would think so

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:02 AM): Yes, trafficx, there are a number of them, but not overwhelming.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (7/20/98 9:02 AM): Really Rob, in what regard?

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:03 AM): Let's wait for a few more minutes, Jacob...Trafficx, what kind of work do you do?

Arnold (7/20/98 9:03 AM): Just wanted to say good morning.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:03 AM): BTW, is zulupmkn still here?

trafficx (7/20/98 9:04 AM): Just asking, I didn't get anything worked out for offering a prize for a contest. wondering if it was because no one had the appropriate audience.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:04 AM): Arnold. is your long distance thing still happening?

trafficx (7/20/98 9:04 AM): Our work: see Mainly do that banner exchange service. Also, various Internet development, etc.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:05 AM): Trafficx, you have to really get in there and show other FrankelBees how you're going to get results for them. Be bold!

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:05 AM): (By the way, is this a stag party today? I think this is the first chat with just guys...)

Jacob (7/20/98 9:06 AM): Yeah, and try insulting as many people as you can with one email

Arnold (7/20/98 9:06 AM): Good memory Rob. Yes it is happening stronger then ever. Rates are falling like a ton of bricks.

trafficx (7/20/98 9:06 AM): Ok, perhaps people need convinced of the benefit of running a contest? I can put together something on that subject, then, and try again.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:07 AM): Well, are you a Contest Specialist? I'm finding that the more you "niche" the better your results are. Works for me anyway...

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:07 AM): Yeah, Arnold, I have a client that wants me to work with him delivering rates of 8.9¢ per minute, NO FEES. Is that competitive?

trafficx (7/20/98 9:08 AM): No not a contest specialist. And obviously, our offer is only going to be interesting to webmasters--so it does limit the audience somewhat.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:09 AM): Well, we've got those, too. In fact, the next big deal I launch on FrankelBiz will be a win-win contest/business building thing the whole list will dig!

trafficx (7/20/98 9:09 AM): I get 8.9 cents/minute and I have yet to have a telemarketer offer me any better.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:09 AM): What state are they located in and what is their general monthly dollar volume?

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:10 AM): Hi All. Trafficx (btw, do you have a real name?), I've got a question that maybe you can answer.... how could I go about setting up a "private" banner exchange that would be invitation only? Is that something you might be able to help with?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:10 AM): They're located in the Midwest...they're new, but they have a huge built-in audience.

trafficx (7/20/98 9:10 AM): Rob, you mentioned getting a Java chat. Is one going to be provided for you? If not, we can provide one for you. Customized if you like.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:11 AM): Almost like an affinity program, Arnold.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:11 AM): Entered the room.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:11 AM): Sorry, this is trafficx. Forgot the conventions of this chat to use real names.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:12 AM): Thanks trafficx. I'll remember that. If our first choice major sponsor doesn't provide it, I'll take you up on that (with a credit, of course).

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:12 AM): Yes, we can set up private banner exchanges--contact me privately and I'm sure we can work it out:

Arnold (7/20/98 9:12 AM): For a business account I can generally offer 7.9cpm with no fees billed in 6 second increments and no real minimum on usage.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:12 AM): AHA! Joel! So it IS just guys today! Okay, let's switch the topic to Cindy Margolis...(just kidding)...woof!

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:13 AM): Holy cow Arnold! IS that with dial 1, too or special codes?

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:14 AM): Thanks Joel. :)

Arnold (7/20/98 9:14 AM): No nothing special Rob. Just your ordinary dialing. But remember it really is just a business account.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:15 AM): What are the qualifications, Arnold? I'm surprised you haven't re-posted to the list. This is a great rate!

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:15 AM): As for 7.9 cpm with no fees,6sec,etc., that seems typical these days. We get same setup but 8.9 cpm and signed up last year--so 7.9 isn't surprising now. also, Toll free number with same rates.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:16 AM): While we are on the subject of long distance I would like to be able to target California businesses. I have a 6.7 cpm rate for billing of over $400 per month.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:17 AM): Well, Arnold, I think you should get on the list with a decent program. you too, Joel. For example, setting up a private banner exchange is great promotion.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:17 AM): Arnold, we may be able to help you there a little bit. I don't know about volume, but if we can target some California specific ISP's we can target banner ads by domain name.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:17 AM): Arnold, are you saying that home-based businesses won't qualify?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:18 AM): See Joel, now you're talking pro-actively, which is what the list needs to hear.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:19 AM): Home based business will qualify.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:19 AM): So why am I using ATT Arnold? What am I missing?

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:19 AM): Rob, sorry, what is a "decent program"?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:20 AM): Oops. "decent" program.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:21 AM): I don't know. Why don't you e-mail me at or call me at 800-311-9856(EST) and we can talk some more. I just type to slow for this.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:22 AM): Sorry.. I got logged of here for a minute. Arnold, you're typing just fine.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:23 AM): And Joel we should talk some about your banner proposal.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:23 AM): Joel, I find that the web designers and developers generally sit back and wait or people to call. You need to be assertive and imaginative. After all ALL our members are web-active. They can use your stuff.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:24 AM): Certainly, Arnold.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:24 AM): And Joel we should talk some about your banner proposal.

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:24 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:24 AM): Hi Deborah. You're the only female here today, but so far nobody has brought up pro football...

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:24 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (7/20/98 9:25 AM): SO many contacts made in just 24 minutes, this must be a record for the chat

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:25 AM): We can talk about pro football!

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:25 AM): Hello everyone

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:25 AM): Whoa! Laurie just showed up! Okay, now we're getting a better mix. Not that there's anything wrong with an all guy group...

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:25 AM): Rob, yes the members are webactive. We'll be offering a discount on advertising, and a bonus for those wanting to join the exchange program. for the contest thing, though, the audience of a website must be webmasters--who wants to enter a contest when the prize is something that won't do them any good.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:26 AM): And Joel we should talk some about your banner proposal.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:27 AM): Joel, I still think you ought to do one thing at a time. Start with Ira's private banner exchange idea. You already got two interested people this morning!

Jacob (7/20/98 9:27 AM): Laurie, what do you do?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:27 AM): Laurie -- for the record -- I hate pro football....I'm a baseball guy.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:28 AM): Deborah, you can jump in too, We've made some good deals this morning.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:28 AM): Rob, we can handle lots of ideas at the same time. We've got some good programmers on our staff. It'll take longer to discuss the private banner exchange program than to implement it.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:28 AM): Rob I think my system is being weird I see the same message from me to Joel reposted 3 times.

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:29 AM): Hello everyone

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:29 AM): Perception vs. Reality Joel: You may well be able to do more, but your target audience can only focus on one thing at a time. pace yourself. Bring out another program next month

Jorge R (7/20/98 9:29 AM): Entered the room.

Jorge R (7/20/98 9:30 AM): Hello everyone!

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:30 AM): Web design, hosting for small business - trying to get going in e-commerce, but it's a tough go being a Canadian business sometimes

Jacob (7/20/98 9:30 AM): Rob makes a good point, you never want to give out all your cards at once. Space 'em out and really wow everyone.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:30 AM): Deborah and Laurie, ask any question you wish. Or just tell us what brought you here...

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:30 AM): Joel, I see you are affiliated with "The Ultimate Promotion"... What do you think of that? Has it brought much business yet? I'm working on a similar concept, and if you like what they are doing, I think you'll love what I'm putting together. :)

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:31 AM): Thank you very much for the advice, Rob, Jacob

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:31 AM): I'm a consultant in int'l development & proposal writing. Just listening.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:31 AM): I'm actually just enjoying lurking and learning more about banner advertising. My regional tourism site is getting around 60,000 hits to the server a week - is that decent enough yet for attracting banner ads?

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:31 AM): Laurie, I've been following some mailing lists that have been talking a lot about e-commerce in Canada. I might be able to point you to some archives that might have some helpful info.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:32 AM): Laurie, last week, our chat focused a lot on Canadian sites and commerce, which led to a number of posts on the subject. We have some members who have nailed that issue.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:32 AM): Ira, we'd be happy to listen to what you have to offer.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:33 AM): No charge for listening, Deb. And Laurie, you can charge for advertising with one hit a week, as long as it's the right hit.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:33 AM): Yes, I'd definitely like that help, Joel. You can email me at - thanks

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:33 AM): Laurie, I've heard other Canadians make similar comments recently, and that surprises me... the problems shouldn't be because of a lack of audience, as the % of Canadians online has to be comparable to the % of Americans.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:34 AM): Ira, I'll go ya one better: Canadians seems to be grasping the web concept much more readily than Americans. The proportions are higher for Canada

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:35 AM): In fact, that was one of the major surprises of the FrankelBiz list so far...never expected so much from up north.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:35 AM): Thanks to this forum and the FrankelBee list I've picked up quite a few URLs and case histories and am looking into a couple of companies, but it's just frustrating to not have the immediate options US businesses have - it's our banking and lack of governmental support for small business here I think

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:36 AM): One thing I would like to preview here, is the subject of program creation. This is the next big thing, folks. And it works.

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:36 AM): Rob, I agree... when I was starting my business over 3 years ago, I remember feeling like the Canadians were outnumbering the Americans in some pretty major forums, and many seemed to "get it" much better than people from other countries.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:36 AM): What's program creation?

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:37 AM): Rob, can you please define "program creation"?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:37 AM): Yes, Ira, I think they get it because they have to overcome a lot more. The web is a great way to by[[ass a lot of government and infrastructure crap.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:38 AM): Absolutely, Laura. It will be the subject of this week's newsletter, but briefly, it's where you go beyond your normal service and set up a program.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:38 AM): The program is a win-win situation that promotes everyone's business, including your own. A perfect example is our WGI sponsor.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:40 AM): Rob are you talking about affiliate programs?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:40 AM): By creating a situation where people refer business to WGI, WGI pays our sponsor fee, the referring parties get a fee and WGI gets business. Like an affiliate program...

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:40 AM): I'm a consultant in int'l development & proposal writing. Just listening.

Deborah Kluge (7/20/98 9:41 AM): Sorry, I am having computer probs

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:41 AM): See, none of us are in the business of affiliate or referral programs. None of us are in the business of getting business for other people. But the folks who extend themselves to do just that are the guys who get all the business.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:42 AM): This is a major premise of the Frankelbiz list. And Joel, you can see how if you implement it, it can work for you -- or anyone here.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:42 AM): I have one for at . It is for my LD services. I find it useful and I am fairly selective in who I sign up.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:42 AM): I recently revamped my site to incorporate a number of referral programs for software or services that I have used and can recommend and it makes sure I get some kind of return on my advertising even if I don't get "clients".

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:43 AM): If my timing is right, I should be announcing a major two-company deal within the next two weeks for the FrankelBees -- with major companies.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:44 AM): Right, Laurie and Arnold -- but the further out you think, i.e., how can I show people that I want THEM to do well in business -- the better you do.

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:44 AM): Actually, Rob, a big part of my business is helping businesses set up affiliate/reseller programs. In fact, I'm a week or two away from announcing a major success story based on a relationship that began through FrankelBiz! And, I'm in the process of setting up something like what you are calling a "program" that brings together a network of independent, yet affiliated, sites.

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 9:45 AM): Rob, we already have what could be called an "affiliate program". We offer free advertising to sites who refer members to us. We can also setup affiliate programs for businesses.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:45 AM): Atta boy, Ira.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:46 AM): Joel, Ira I would be interested in hearing what you are doing in this matter.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:46 AM): Okay, Joel, that's great for you. Now start thinking about various specific business types you'd want to attract and develop a custom program for that segment....

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:46 AM): I do all my hosting with Iserver and they have some great - and bigger scale - programs for their resellers. I now build affiliate stuff into most of the new sites I put together for customers, even if it's just an Amazon store tucked in to the site.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:47 AM): Hey Arnold, who WOULDN'T be interested in that? And I've got news for you -- people return your phone calls when you offer them something concrete like a program...

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:48 AM): Laurie, that's smart...and that's how a business web developer would promote herself. By showing people that's how she thinks....

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:48 AM): My goal for FrankelBiz is to build a community of folks like us

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:50 AM): I'm having trouble extrapolating these small successes into bigger programs - for example my regional tourism site (run volunteer) could really use some cash generation beyond charging for tourism operator listings, but I can't quite grasp how to get there with it...

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:50 AM): And the best part is that this works for any business out there (Yeesh, I'm beginning to sound like that spiky haired kid on those infomercials with Cindy Margolis).

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:50 AM): Arnold, I need to take things slow for another week or two, adding one or two last key pieces, but look for me here next week, or keep an eye on FrankelBiz, as that will be one of the first places I explain what I'm working on.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:51 AM): Laurie, are you pro-actively contacting tour operators and building them a program that will actively send them business?

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:51 AM): (EIGHT MINUTE WARNING)

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:53 AM): Am I pro-actively contacting operators? Most definitely. There was no funding avail. for the tourism site, so I built 130 pages+ on spec and put everyone in on a 3 month trial basis, worked like heck to build traffic and promote their businesses on the site, through a newsletter and through offline ad campaigns financed by myself. Now I've got a newsletter - printed form - just for the operators,... but I'm sure from your question I'm missing the "program" part

Arnold (7/20/98 9:53 AM): Ira, I'll keep an eye out for the news. I can't always make it here on Monday.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:54 AM): Yes,'re going to want to figure out a way to deliver these targets CASH. The same way that FrankelBees get cash checks for referring sales to WGI or other sponsors.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:55 AM): BTW, Ira: Charles Kessler says hello....

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:56 AM): Cash, eh? That'll taking some figuring out for sure. I was trying to drive them customers for their tourism businesses.

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 9:56 AM): Thanks Rob, talked to him last week after you saw him (unless you saw him again this weekend).... isn't the world a small place? :)

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:56 AM): (THREE MINUTES)

RobFrankel (7/20/98 9:58 AM): Laurie, people are in business to make money. On the web, as in real life, they're sick on "potential". If you take a minute, you can create a program. Watch for the newsletter and I'll outline it in more detail.

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 9:58 AM): Great! I'm on the lookout.

Arnold (7/20/98 9:58 AM): Laurie, driving them customers is good as long as you constantly let them know the numbers you are sending them. But of course nothing says "I love you" to a customer then $.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 10:00 AM): Okay, everyone. I've held out long enough, gotta head for the coffee machine! Please feel free to stick around. I'll see you online!

Arnold (7/20/98 10:00 AM): Nice talking to everybody - have a good week.

RobFrankel (7/20/98 10:00 AM): BTW, this was one of the best chats we've ever had. Congratulations to everyone today! and thanks1

Joel Shellman (7/20/98 10:00 AM): good week, all

Jacob (7/20/98 10:01 AM): ok, bye! See ya next week

LaurieMcConnell (7/20/98 10:01 AM): You've reinvented Monday mornings, Rob

Ira Pasternack (7/20/98 10:01 AM): Bye all... time for lunch here on the East coast :) See ya next week, I should be nice and relaxed after a long weekend on Cape Cod (is it Friday yet? :)

©1998, RobFrankel, Contact Us