Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic August 7, 2000

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:01 AM): Que pasa?

weber (8/7/2000 9:01 AM): Rob, I have a question for you. (8/7/2000 9:01 AM): looking for pasta?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:02 AM): That's what I'm here for Weber...shoot!

weber (8/7/2000 9:02 AM): We are preparing for an industry trade show, we are preparing a banner to go behind the booth. Any suggestions for the banner?

weber (8/7/2000 9:02 AM): What I mean is should we just list our name and logo, or should we also include products names?

Michael Kimsal ( (8/7/2000 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:03 AM): Oh man, trade shows...yeesh. There's no other business medium that gets more screwed up than trade shows.

weber (8/7/2000 9:04 AM): I know. This time we are finally on the main floor.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:05 AM): Banners are a lot like billboards. You want to hit them hard and fast, not litter them with tiny copy that nobody can read. Go for one big idea and let it draw them to the booth.

weber (8/7/2000 9:05 AM): Most of the people who come are from health foods i.e. Natural Product stores. They seem to be there to sample products rather than buy.

weber (8/7/2000 9:05 AM): But we need our presence. They usually buy thru distributors.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:06 AM): Yeah, you get a lot of lookers and freeloaders -- and mainly, people who want you to do business with them, instead of vice versa.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:06 AM): Entered the room. (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): you also get those who aren't going to do business that day but with the right impression will in the future

weber (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): True. Last year some guy came up and said he was a "Consumer Representative" he said his job was to taste everyone's, food and supplement products.

Glenda (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Arizona Reporter ( (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): The quickest way to get freeloaders out of your booth: Ask them for their business card so that you can call them after the show.

Glenda (8/7/2000 9:07 AM): Hello everyone

weber (8/7/2000 9:08 AM): Last year we used a red satin banner or sheet that dropped from the back of the booth to the floor. It had our logo, and name.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:08 AM): hi everyone

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:09 AM): Very few people know what trade shows are really good for, which speaks to your question. The trick to trade shows is lining up real business leads BEFORE the show happens, with REAL leads that would result in REAL business. Trade shows are only good for meeting everyone in one place and doing those meetings. The banner just helps them find you for their appointment

weber (8/7/2000 9:09 AM): For our literature (tear sheets) should we also use the same red background with photo's or should we use a white background?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:09 AM): Do what you can to make everything work together, design and copy-wise.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:10 AM): But again, if you go to a trade show to meet people for the first time, you'll have a low sell-through rate.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:10 AM): We quit going to trade shows... too much expense for too little return.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:12 AM): Well, there ya go. When you think about how much it costs to do a show and how little you get for it, you can put that money to much better use.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:12 AM): need a little help.....

weber (8/7/2000 9:13 AM): That is why we are only doing one. There are others in CA. But this is the major show on the East Coast. SO we just want to have a presence to keep us in prospects minds.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:13 AM): looking for review of my web site...

weber (8/7/2000 9:13 AM): The stores generally do not carry something if it is not carried by their distributors, who in turn want us to pay a placement fee so they may take orders (not actually sell) our products

Tom (8/7/2000 9:14 AM): not publish yet... but would like to hear positive and negative

Tom (8/7/2000 9:14 AM): Here is the URL...

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:15 AM): Good Morning Everyone!

weber (8/7/2000 9:15 AM): We are also attacking with press releases, and will do some mailings after the show.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:15 AM): That's fine, weber, but what you should be doing is calling everyone weeks before the show and making appointments to get to know them at the show. that's a lot of work, but that's the way it gets done.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:15 AM): Tom, hang on for a minute. We're not quite finished yet.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:16 AM): just email me at thank you

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:16 AM): As for "keeping in prospects minds", trade shows are hardly the way to do it.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:16 AM): ok Rob... thanks

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:16 AM): Not how we do business here Tom, but thanks anyway.

weber (8/7/2000 9:16 AM): What do you suggest?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:18 AM): Weber, next time, pick out your top ten companies that you want to do business with. Six weeks before the show, start calling them and asking them if they'll be attending the show. If they are, make an appointment -- or bribe them with dinner -- to talk. Lock them up before they get on the airplane.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:18 AM): If you only close HALF of them, your show will be a huge success.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:18 AM): Rob .. explain that please.... just looking for some input.... not promoting the site....

weber (8/7/2000 9:19 AM): My general methods in the past have been a combination of some advertising, regular mailings, and phone calls.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:19 AM): When we did do trade shows, the most successful part of it was private events we coordinated... an off-site party by invite only. Clients appreciated it, and prospects were impressed.

weber (8/7/2000 9:19 AM): This industry has become one seemingly more of sheep rather than the way they used to work.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:19 AM): Okay, who's next? Tom? What are we looking at and why? Simply dropping a URL and saying "e-mail me" isn't how we do it here.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:20 AM): You need to explain what you're trying to do before we go at your site with hatchets and tongs.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:20 AM): Weber, exactly why you have to take a pro-active approach and hand pick your targets.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:21 AM): Tom, initial impression is your home page looks pretty wordy to me... you need to design for a 6-year-old's attention span (like mine.) Break it up a bit.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:21 AM): I was not just dropping and leaving

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:22 AM): What's the URL again?

Tom (8/7/2000 9:22 AM): it seem that everyone was busy w/trade show

weber (8/7/2000 9:22 AM): OK. Thanks. That is also why we started the ezine direct to consumers. It may force the stores to do business directly with us.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:22 AM): Right Tom, you just have too wait your turn...

Tom (8/7/2000 9:22 AM):

Tom (8/7/2000 9:24 AM): weber/unless you have angel investor... the trade shows really are not working for the small biz..

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:24 AM): OOOOOOkay....Andy is right. This isn't a designed page. This is an overwritten page. It's hard to understand. Makes the basic mistake of promoting your own product instead of its benefits to me.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:25 AM): Why wouldn't you cut the copy and get to the user benefit faster?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:26 AM): The way web pages work is to draw people in. Let them click deeper if they want more information on a specific aspect. (8/7/2000 9:27 AM): appears to be only one aspect

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:27 AM): Who knows? Your product might work great, but this page doesn't sell it. And chances are that anyone not specialized in the trade would likely never make it past the first paragraph, IMHO

Tom (8/7/2000 9:27 AM): it is only one service

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:28 AM): If that's the case, Tom, why not make that more prominent: all this with only one simple product. Also, if you're going to ask questions, make sure they're easily answered.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:28 AM): For example, you ask: "Do you believe that 400 similarly well designed yet different pages all registered and indexed by 60 of the webs most popular search engines would help you prosper?" I'll bet most people wouldn't know how to answer that.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:29 AM): (six year old - "huh"

Jeff ( (8/7/2000 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:30 AM): keep it coming

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:30 AM): You would probably do well to have an FAQ on this site, instead of slowing down response times with a mail link to your support team, too. People want to know more before they contact you -- and you don't want to burn your time answering the same questions over and over. (8/7/2000 9:30 AM): I've had clients ask about sites and emails with a similar message and if they should try the 'service' my usual advice is .. only if you have money to spare... there is nothing in the message to really give a sense of credibility

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:31 AM): Tom, give them places to go. Different pages. Maybe a side by side test of a site using your stuff versus a site that hasn't.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:31 AM): how about the order form.....

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:31 AM): Case studies are great and a side by side chart is easy for someone to print out and show to their boss, who's probably the decision maker.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Patti's right. But a case study would help that credibility issue, I think.

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Yes... I have not set that up yet... I will place 800 on the web site for review ..

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Credibility is an interesting issue Patti. Rob, how does an honest guy in this kind of service shake off the sleazy reputation of his industry (sorry Tom, but that's the impression of a lot of guys in your business.)

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Tom, you're too stuck in your own court. Stop thinking about your own business and start thinking about how your product is the solution for YOUR PROSPECTS' problems.

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:32 AM): Hi all... (login doesn't work with opera!) (8/7/2000 9:33 AM): 800 what?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:33 AM): Sorry Michael....just a plain ol' HTML chat....should work with everything.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:33 AM): 800 signpost, doorways.. sorry patty

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): yeah - the CHAT works... I could watch you all, but the login area never changed to 'talk'. :(

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): oh well.

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): I wanted to chime in with Tom's service here...

weber (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): We run into that too. We have quotes from customers on a testimonials page, and some interspersed throughout the site.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): Andy, the same way a branding guy shakes off the sleazy image of other branding charlatans! You just keep serving up the truth and real examples. Do what you can to create a community that shows you know your stuff. This is NOT overnight success we're talking about. (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): it is Patti ... why would you place signposts or doorways up .. why not some credible case studies with contacts willing to respond to queries

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:34 AM): put up some links to other non-competing services - webmaster resource pages, etc.

weber (8/7/2000 9:35 AM): Also we try to answer every email within 24 hours, usually it is much faster than that.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:35 AM): Incidentally, NOT being an overnight success is another key to credibility....It's okay t build a solid history. Build slow but strong. (8/7/2000 9:35 AM): quality over quantity

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:35 AM): Also, there is NO info in your meta tags - doesn't look good to anyone questioning your credibility.

Michael Kimsal2 ( (8/7/2000 9:36 AM): you might want to offer FrankelBees a (severely) reduced discount to build case studies from.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:36 AM): Tom, overall, you have to believe in Frankel's Prim Directive: Make yourself the solution to THEIR problems. If you rewrite the site that way, you'll come across more better.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): thanks rob ... and everyone...

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): Excellent point, Michael. The FrankelBiz community is perfect for you, Tom. And there are thousands of people there who can spread the word about you -- if you're as good and as ethical as you say you are...

weber (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): Rob, you have been in Hawaii to long More Better? Howzit bra

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): Feeling whooped yet Tom... don't. We tend to gang tackle here, but we want to help.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): Hey Jeff, anything you want to say? We try to let the non-regulars go first... (8/7/2000 9:37 AM): speaking of quality rob.. I ordered your book on the weekend from chapters... their service was interesting

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:38 AM): What the hell was that, Weber???

Tom (8/7/2000 9:38 AM): yes... I plan on setting up an affiliate program

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:38 AM): Oy, Chapters doesn't stock the book....they have to special order it.

weber (8/7/2000 9:39 AM): Reminded me of Hawaii. "More better", sorry I'll go back to the Pacalolo (8/7/2000 9:39 AM): yes 4-6 weeks delivery.. what was interesting was how they now integrate their web and store together .. a year ago it would not happen

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:39 AM): Barnes & Noble doesn't stock it, either, but I get calls from their book stores around the country ordering it. The best way to order the book is through the site

Tom (8/7/2000 9:39 AM): no Andy..... I thank you all... this is the reason I come here to listen (8/7/2000 9:40 AM): I don't' have credit cards rob.. so I needed to either send money order or order it from chapters

Tom (8/7/2000 9:40 AM): I've been a FrankelBee for a while....

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:40 AM): Well, what most people don't realize I that once your book has an ISBN number, it goes into an international catalog. Then they automatically add it to their catalog, and never stock it, in hopes that they can special order it for you and not lose the sale.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): Patti, if you want to buy it by check, call me and I'll ship it from here for you.

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): It'll be a lot cheaper.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): Not to get too far off track, but how do you get an ISBN number then?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): Jeff -- are you still here? (8/7/2000 9:41 AM): now you tell me <G> I'd have done that .. but then I should have asked eh

Tom (8/7/2000 9:42 AM): hey Rob..add checking to your web site... it's free...

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:42 AM): The best way to buy the book is to attend an F2F and buy it directly from the source. That way you can get it "branded" on the spot, too! (8/7/2000 9:42 AM): well Joel .. I've suggested rob might want to visit the other big apple then I could f2f with him

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:42 AM): Andy, ISBN's are available through

weber (8/7/2000 9:43 AM): Rob, when are you going to do a F2F in Florida?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:43 AM): cool, thanks!

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:44 AM): That's true. I got to meet Joel that way last week. I only do F2F's when business brings me to town. No out of town gigs lately, but when I get them, I'll be happy to announce them. I love meeting FB's!

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:44 AM): Rob.. if you ever come to Palm Desert... let me know

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:45 AM): Sorry. Lost contact there for a minute. Now I'm back.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:45 AM): I guess we lost Jeff, eh? Oh well, anyone else got anything happening?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:46 AM): Got a new NFL promotion up and running thanks in part to some advice here at Frankel Chat... check it out when you can. (8/7/2000 9:46 AM): what sort of things should a community (offline) look at when they are trying to put together a promotional campaign of some type? (8/7/2000 9:47 AM): initially wanting to draw people into the community to visit, shop etc

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:47 AM): I've got a question. Not related to branding really.... One of my clients asked me to be on his Advisory Board or Board of Directors -- any tips on general compensation for such positions?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:48 AM): What kinds of community are we talking about, Patti?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:49 AM): Joel, you definitely want to get an outline of your duties and commitments before you sign on. Typically, one quarter point in the company is about right if you're on an Advisory Board, not BOD.

Jeff ( (8/7/2000 9:49 AM): Still here, just kind of looking in from the sidelines for now. My web site is down and undergoing reconstruction (8/7/2000 9:49 AM): a village actually.. the local business people are brainstorming to come up with ways to promote the area ... strong tourist area but we'd like to do so with an eye to turning some of the tourists into either more businesses or residents

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:49 AM): Nice site, Andy...who does your design work?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:50 AM): Hired some local guns for this one. I'm pretty pleased with it! They are called Red 5 Interactive (

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:50 AM): Yikes, Patti, that would depend entirely on what your village does, where it's located and what it has to offer. More than we know about here and now....

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:50 AM): Thanks. I've heard between .25 and 1 point for Advisory Board. Any ballpark for BOD?

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:51 AM): Down here, a ski resort called Mammoth Lakes is fervently trying to change its status from ski resort to year round vacation spot.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:51 AM): Joel, for BOD you could get almost anything up from 2 points, depending on your added value to the company. (8/7/2000 9:52 AM): that is part of the problem rob. it doesn't do much at the moment but we sit in the middle of a tourist area between Toronto and Kingston right off the main highway

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:52 AM): Also, it depends on the level of you day to day activity. Believe me, if you fund the company, or work as the acting CEO, they give lots more.....

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:52 AM): Thanks. I'll look into it. I'll be defining duties soon. Just wanted to have a general idea...

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:52 AM): Patti, sounds like a LOT of potential there.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:52 AM): (EIGHT MINUTE WANRING)

weber (8/7/2000 9:53 AM): Andy, it looks like you have to buy something to play? Is that right?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:53 AM): Patti, what does the village offer besides location?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:53 AM): We inserted "Game Cards" into packs of NFL trading cards we distribute all over the US... but there is a no purchase option as well (by mail.) (8/7/2000 9:53 AM): offer in what sense Andy.. from an industry standpoint.. we have an industrial park that is serviced.. basic business needs... local schools

weber (8/7/2000 9:54 AM): I didn't see that on

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:54 AM): Andy, do you do the design yourself? (8/7/2000 9:55 AM): the downtown has just been reconstructed so it is much more attractive .. however many of the storefronts are older and not well maintained.. we're pressing council to enact a bylaw to bring them in to conformance

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:55 AM): Patti, Why would the tourist come there in May? Weber, I'm not exactly trying to make it obvious that they can get game cards free... I'd rather they buy the packs (he he!) (8/7/2000 9:56 AM): apple blossom festival in may for sure ... camping throughout the area.. lots of bed and breakfasts

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:56 AM): Rob, basic identity ) logos, graphic template, etc. are mine. The web designers made it all work.

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:56 AM): Regarding F2Fs in your area. I've got an idea... If you know a group that's planning a marketing/Internet conference, suggest that they invite Rob. That way, he'll come out, he'll organize an F2F and voila -- you'll be able to meet THE MAN!

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:56 AM): Patti, it sounds typical: a bunch of locals trying to become marketing types. That alone will probably kill it....

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:57 AM): One day Andy, you and I will be doing business together. Not sure when, but some day.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:57 AM): I like the sound of that. You know where to reach me.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:57 AM): Yay, Joel! Thanks for mentioning that. I've gotta find a way to get invited to more gigs... (8/7/2000 9:58 AM): well what we want to do is put together some ideas to present to council to push them to bring in some marketing people... what we'd ideally like to do is have some solid ideas which marketing people would be the most likely prospect to the identified needs.. we're just not sure how to identify the needs

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Joel ( (8/7/2000 9:59 AM): Rob, you'd be an asset to any such event.

Tom (8/7/2000 9:59 AM): Patti contact the bus tours...

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 9:59 AM): Patti... my advice is hire a pro for this project. Get a budget and get the business owners as far out of the loop as possible. You'll never get any focus with too many cooks in the kitchen.

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 9:59 AM): Patti, your marketing team will identify all that for you. Your team will identify what they THINK they need. Gotta be done from the outside in. (8/7/2000 10:00 AM): how do we find quality marketing types.. short of hiring a branding guy like rob <G>

RobFrankel ( (8/7/2000 10:00 AM): Whoa! We're outta time!. This one really flew by! Thanks everyone, I gotta split!

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): There's probably an ad agency or a pr firm in town (maybe.) If so, get them on the committee and then volunteer them! We ad guys have a hard time saying no to free publicity. (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): a local artisan studio draws in bus tours Tom

weber (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): Take Care.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob... seeya

Joel ( (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): Bye everyone!

Tom (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): thanks again..... (8/7/2000 10:01 AM): hehe good idea Andy.. except if there is any they are hiding LOL

Jeff ( (8/7/2000 10:02 AM): Rob, thanks, I plan to have a boat load of questions for next week!

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