Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic August 21, 2000

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 8:59 AM): Greetings...anyone awake this morning???

weber (8/21/2000 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Chester - (8/21/2000 8:59 AM): Not entirely - too much fun this weekend...

weber (8/21/2000 9:00 AM): Hi Rob

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:00 AM): Greetings, Rob, everyone!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:00 AM): I hear ya, Chester...waiting for the coffee to kick in myself....

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:00 AM): Hi -- I have a marketing dilemma. I offer free product with each order I send out and offer flat rate shipping. I want to either cancel the free product (about $200) savings each month or raise my shipping costs $1. Am I shooting myself in the foot by trying to save a little money? Any ideas?

Joel( (8/21/2000 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Joel( (8/21/2000 9:01 AM): Good Morning everyone!

weber (8/21/2000 9:01 AM): Hi Terri. Rob again I want to thank you for the suggestion on our Ezine name. We now have over 420 subscribers in 2 months (8/21/2000 9:01 AM): hello, I'm new ,, first time here!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:02 AM): Dusty, there's no dilemma here...You should never, IMHO, under mine the value of your product. Which means there may be a third possibility: what about giving away the free product with a higher minimum purchase/

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:02 AM): Hi Holly! Welcome. And you're more than welcome Weber. (8/21/2000 9:03 AM): Hi Rob!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:04 AM): You'll also find that people almost NEVER leave because of a minimal price hike -- unless there's no brand value. If you have no brand, they have no reason to stay with you -- they're making their purchasing decision based on price alone.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:04 AM): How much do they have to order to get the "free" stuff now?

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:04 AM): Well, I already give 5% discount on $200-$300 purchases and 10% on $300 and above.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:05 AM): There's no minimum...everyone gets a free surprise with each order $2-$17 value.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:05 AM): Hello Bees. Good Morning.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:05 AM): ACK!!! NEVER give should be giving an "additional 5% in product -- value of $15 -- with every order OVER $300". You do much better that way.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:07 AM): On the other hand, if people are already paying shipping, thy won't mind going to a ship rate per order plan. It's by far the standard for the web.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:07 AM): The only time I ever tell people to give discounts is when they have a strongly established brand. For example, on the FrankelBiz list, giving discounts to other members is part of the culture....

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:08 AM): Dusty, a company I recently ordered from splits their shipments into several packages and charged shipping on each one! Not that I am recommending that, just saying that shipping costs don't deter buyers from ordering (at least it didn't deter me *grin*)

weber (8/21/2000 9:09 AM): I had that happen to me from one of the music "clubs" I felt I was gouged

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:09 AM): What kind of business is it Dusty? (8/21/2000 9:09 AM): I have to run.. Rob , thank you for your great services! I'll be back next week.

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): What do you mean ship rate per order plan?

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): me too, weber! But a flat shipping rate on one package sounds reasonable to me :)

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): Holly, sorry you couldn't get your question answered. Come back nest Monday!

weber (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): They shipped each of the 10 CD's with a separate shipping (inflated) and handling charge. Free....Ha!

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): Gang, have you any experience branding a leading liberal arts college or extending the brand to their web site?

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:10 AM): Alternative/Natural Medicine/Nutritional Supplements

weber (8/21/2000 9:11 AM): It is ok to do that in US orders, but impossible to be fair in doing that with International Orders

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:12 AM): Hi Steve....yes, I have.

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:12 AM): Dusty, do you ship Internationally?

weber (8/21/2000 9:12 AM): We have rates based on the weight of the order. For example up to 1.5 lbs. in product is one rate, 2.5 lbs. is another, etc. We ship Priority Mail for domestic

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:13 AM): Yes, we ship Internationally.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:13 AM): Howdy!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:13 AM): Of course, the ones that come to mind are the deeply religious ones. But you're seeing more of those kinds of efforts occurring out there as colleges try to attract more private money.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:14 AM): Where are you located Steve? Geographically?

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:14 AM): Great. An institution I know and love has gone through a leadership change recently. The New Leader (NL) is thinking about toying with a fairly strong mission statement.

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:14 AM): I agree with weber that it wouldn't be a good idea to use the same flat shipping rate for International as you use for US shipping.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:14 AM): I'm in So. Cal. Orange County.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:14 AM): How radically is NL going to change it?

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:15 AM): The institution I'm talking about is not religious; it does have a strong mission that resonates with students, alumni, faculty, etc.

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:15 AM): No, international shipping is a flat 39.95 rate 5-7 days.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:15 AM): We don't know how radically NL will change it. And I'm not even sure what my question is.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:15 AM): Okay, that's close enough to my what's your specific question?

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:16 AM): I guess I'm just interested to know the best ways to advise NL about the brand that exists and how to strengthen it and/or extend it in the marketplace

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:16 AM): Well, in the absence of any specific question, I can tell you that branding works just a well in education as anywhere else. Maybe moreso, given the emotional nature and attachments we all have to certain schools.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:17 AM): For instance, NL may want to focus on becoming an international name in education. Or NL may want to create a university where a liberal arts college now stands.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:18 AM): I just sent off a reply to a guy in India about doing strategic partnerships between CNET and INTEL. The key is credibility. You can't just hawk your school like a 1964 Chevy. You really have to get to the roots of the school's culture and heritage and start from those strengths.

weber (8/21/2000 9:18 AM): Rob, I have a question

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:18 AM): Hi Jeff. Welcome. If you have a question or something, jump in when you can. We always try to let the new guys go first.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:19 AM): Weber, let's see if Jeff has a question first, then you...

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:20 AM): Steve, if he plans on transitioning that far, he's going to need a real deep battle plan. This ain't an overnight makeover.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:20 AM): I am planning to use seminars to brand my business as the expert in financial planning for doctors, any thoughts?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:21 AM): Man, Jeff, I hope your seminars are REALLY good and REALLY strongly branded. There are SO many of those out there. I get about three pieces of snail mail a week for "free" seminars.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:21 AM): Jeff, where are you located, geographically?

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:21 AM): Agreed. Strategic planning is underway.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:22 AM): Denver. I have worked with docs for 20 years, and understand their mind set. Most docs around 50 to 60 just want to get out, it's killing them.

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:22 AM): Rob, your "webinar" was totally awesome!! I loved the format they have there!

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:23 AM): agreed!

Glenda Yancey (8/21/2000 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:23 AM): Jeff, of course your seminars have to be original and effective. I would also strongly recommend that you give something of high perceived value to the attendees to take with them. I give out pre-paid calling cards, but you need to give them something that's like a "break in case of emergency -- call Jeff to rescue you from your grind" kind of thing.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:23 AM): (Thanks for attending the webinar. It was fun and that product is pretty cool).

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:23 AM): Jeff, have you worked with medical providers much? Do you know their struggles vis-a-vis third party payers?

Chester - (8/21/2000 9:24 AM): Jeff - If you need help developing a website, I am in Denver as well...

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:24 AM): Jeff, you should get testimonials from your satisfied doc clients - use them to establish credibility too

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:25 AM): Jeff, the important thing -- from what you've told me -- is that YOU DA MAN for recognizing a doctor in pain! You're the guy that can flick the switch and eject them from their current misery, landing them in a place that's safe and secure. That's pretty specific. Now, as they say, you've got to develop that brand and get jiggy with it.

Dusty - (8/21/2000 9:25 AM): Gotta' go...thanks so much for the info. If any of you are interested, go to and give me a critique and I'll send you a free signed copy of my book -- Smart Eats, Smart Supplements, and Smart Exercise.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:25 AM): docs are totally inundated with financial stuff, referrals have been my mainstay, but I am positioning to use associations as a base

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:25 AM): Doctors are a funny bunch. Here in Los Angeles, there is a very strongly branded bank dedicated solely to doctors. They've done well by sticking to that niche.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:25 AM): Chester, I really want some web site development, but like 90% of docs over 40 are technophobes!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:26 AM): Jeff, there could be a huge potential for you there. But it will come in the personal brand you create and promote for yourself. More than ever, it will be important for you to NOT be "just another seminar guy."

Chester - (8/21/2000 9:27 AM): A lot of docs are starting to use the web for personal things. One site I just built for a fly-fishing retreat is mostly trafficked by docs. They are catching up...

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:27 AM): I agree. The docs are very earful of tech. We're about to embark on a huge operation for laser eye surgeons. And for the first time, they're seriously looking at a web strategy.

Glenda Yancey (8/21/2000 9:27 AM): I came in late on the conversation, but Jeff are you only doing seminars or are you a consultant?

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:27 AM): Been working with Millennium advertising out of SD. These guys don't want theory, you're right, they want to stop the pain. What would you recommend as a high impact tool for docs, tape, card hot line?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:28 AM): Weber, what was you question?

weber (8/21/2000 9:28 AM): Is there a different approach that should be taken between on line and off line branding?

Tom (8/21/2000 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:28 AM): Jeff, your brand, like mine, will have to be a highly personalized brand. It's got to be "I'm Jeff. I'm here. I can help."

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:29 AM): Seminars are a way to introduce myself to potential clients, we work one on one on a fee basis

Joel( (8/21/2000 9:29 AM): Jeff, where do your currently present your seminars, how do you promote them?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:30 AM): No, weber. Branding -- Big Time Branding -- works in any medium or format. Otherwise it doesn't work at all. That's where a lot of the ad agencies and designers fall short. A great brand can adapt to any medium and is dependent on none.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:30 AM): Chester, interesting, they need the distractions to kill the pain

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:30 AM): Hi Tom. If you have a question, we try to let the new people go first, so jump in....

weber (8/21/2000 9:31 AM): So the same things you would say in print are the same as on-line

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:31 AM): Jeff, we all know that doctors love to write off travel for business plans. In fact, my parents are travelling to Kenya in the fall with a doctors group who probably has a seminar somewhere under a tree....

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:31 AM): In the past, we've used hotels, country clubs, and Our conference room. I think to be the expert we have to present at their conferences.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:31 AM): Thanks!! We are a small, 20 year old ad agency, strong print creative looking to rebrand/extend brand into integrated marketing. . .any thoughts??

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:32 AM): Weber, the same brand concepts, yes. Of course they get executed in different ways that best fit the media you choose.

weber (8/21/2000 9:32 AM): We are about to do some advertorials in second and third tier markets on one of our products that appeals to diabetics in particular

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:33 AM): Tom, welcome to my world. I began as an ad guy. The question is where do you want to end up -- totally integrated into broadcast and stuff? Where are you located geographically?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:33 AM): Tom, do you specialize in any particular industry?

Joel( (8/21/2000 9:33 AM): Jeff, who is your target market: are going after the independent docs, or those in HMOs, PPOs, etc?

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:34 AM): We're trying to work out the testimonial problems, as Registered Investment Advisors, believe it or not, testimonials are prohibited!

Tom (8/21/2000 9:34 AM): Ski industry, resort real estate development, some hotels

Chester- (8/21/2000 9:34 AM): Entered the room.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:34 AM): What direct media are you looking to utilize

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:35 AM): Jeff, you don't need testimonials. You need a strong brand.

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:35 AM): I would think those docs in HMOs and PPOs could really use financial advice, Jeff! They work much harder and get less money for it than an independent doc. At least that's what my own doctor said *grin*

weber (8/21/2000 9:35 AM): Andy, are you asking me?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:35 AM): Tom, where are you located (there's a reason I ask)

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:35 AM): Docs, typically specialists, age 45 and up - mostly around 55. Younger docs have toys, no assets, and negative cash flow. We're really best able to help those who have something to make the most of it, no get rich quick or silk purse out of a house of debt

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:36 AM): Sorry Weber, I started another conversation... Tom, let's wait our turn

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:36 AM): Jeff, you've got to get them to come you, not vice versa.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:36 AM): In Breckenridge, CO, Rob

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:36 AM): Tom? You still here?

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:37 AM): docs at an HMO are salaried technicians. Most PPO's are just docs who are independent and get a lower fee thru the PPO "consortium"

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:37 AM): Exactly, that's what the referrals and branding have got to be about. As you've said, being THE ONLY SOLUTION. Any thoughts?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:38 AM): Okay, Tom. One thing you MUST realize is that ad agencies are having a harder time than ever, especially non-majors. The goliaths out there are stomping all over everything. That's one of the many reasons I left the biz. Most of the great accounts -- and now many of the smaller ones -- are being swallowed up by huge agencies and media companies.

Chester- (8/21/2000 9:38 AM): ski industry consolidation isn't helping things in that biz either.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:39 AM): So where is a sustainable competitive advantage in the case of any smaller agency

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:39 AM): Tom - Niche Niche Niche!

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:40 AM): Jeff, I can't create the brand right here for you. But I can repeat what I told you earlier: your brand has to be "the guy they call when they need someone to bail them out". But you have to do it with a balance of energy and respect and creativity. And don't be afraid to have fun with it -- these guys live in crisis mode.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:40 AM): Find a hole in the market... the smaller the better, and specialize.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:41 AM): Andy is right. Stick with the stuff that you're really good at and look at pursuing a course of slow, organic growth in the directions you wish.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:42 AM): For example, you may want to export into other regions. One guy I worked with was an theme park expert. He was based here in Los Angeles, but now has theme park clients all over the mid west. These are parks that can't afford the big city agency types, but they're got money to spend.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:42 AM): Agreed, Andy, we have one on the traditional side, but, not surprisingly, some of the money is now going toward web/on line presence and we wonder how much to invest in extending what we do into this arena?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:42 AM): Why not try targeting resorts in outlying areas?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:43 AM): Tom, you simply MUST invest into the online side. And especially into community management. That's where the real bucks are and will continue to be.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:43 AM): That is on our radar screen

Chester- (8/21/2000 9:43 AM): Tom - be careful. I do a lot of web work for the ski lodging industry here in CO, and I can tell you that the number of competitors in that are continues to increase exponentially (been watching it develop since 1995). Customer Service is ultimately what helps me retain clients...

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:44 AM): Aha, create an online community for resort owners with advertising/promotional tips. Suddenly you position yourself as the marketing guru to the resort industry... that's a niche!

Chester- (8/21/2000 9:44 AM): Basically, be prepared to answer weird questions and have someone on call all the time.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:44 AM): The cornerstone of many of the programs I create for clients is designing programs for the folks we get once we lure them...

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:44 AM): Someone the other week talked about a resort community marketing, seems like they need help to support their businesses

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:45 AM): Andy -- the velvet-voiced crooner who actually did call in during the webinar -- is on to something here. Creating an ancillary program like a dialog among resort people is a good way in.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:45 AM): Rob, any branding magic bridging between traditional and new media?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:46 AM): No, Tom, as I mentioned before to Weber, the magic is all in the brand. If it's really done right, the concept flies in any environment and readily adapts. It's those yoyo's who slap together a logo and call it a brand who fall on their faces when the media changes. Think concepts and strategy and it should work anywhere.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:47 AM): But remember-- this is branding we're talking about -- not advertising. Advertising raises the awareness of the brand. The brand is the brand.

Tom (8/21/2000 9:48 AM): You guys are great!! thanks for the very specific, great "food for thought" input. . .will take to our next meeting. . .the community idea is very good. . .

Chester- (8/21/2000 9:48 AM): Basically, be prepared to answer weird questions and have someone on call all the time.

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 9:48 AM): Back to basics, is Amazon a brand? does it sell customer service (it's great), convenience or product at low cost?

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:49 AM): You're welcome. There's a whole chapter on this in the book ( <--- Plug

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:49 AM): BTW, Rob, you and your book got me in trouble last weekend...

Tom (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): Shameless, I might add :)

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): Great book Tom - read it this past weekend... Highly recommended

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): ... I sat around all weekend reading and my loved ones felt a little left out. GREAT WORK!

Is the session still on? (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): Yes, Jeff, Amazon is a brand, but not a Big Time Brand. I spend a bit of time on this topic at speaking gigs and in the book. The test is this (for those of you at the webinar, you'll appreciate this): If I see a book at Amazon and all of a sudden an alarm goes off warning me I can get the same book at Barnes and Noble, will I click to B&N or not?

Is the session still on? (8/21/2000 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:51 AM): Thanks Steve...Apologies to the wife and kids. Next time, take them to see the Klumps and they won't know you're gone...

Joel( (8/21/2000 9:51 AM): Rob, you'll go to Why not? Same book, perhaps lower price... (I enjoyed the webinar, too)

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 9:52 AM): Rob, I am dying to get that program, but it won't work for Netscape yet :(

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:52 AM): Tom, shameless is my middle name. Plug is my maiden name.

Steve Siegel (8/21/2000 9:52 AM): when, and where, is the webinar?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (8/21/2000 9:52 AM): Ten minutes!!! Yikes. I'm late... see ya!

Mark (8/21/2000 9:53 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:53 AM): Right, Joe. Which means there's no brand strength there to keep you at Amazon. A real brand keeps you happy while paying a higher price because there's something more than price to keep you there.

Mark (8/21/2000 9:53 AM): Rob - help! My direct mail and telemarketing is failing???

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:53 AM): Steve, last Tuesday we had a live call in/web based show for an hour. You can see/hear it -- I think - by going to

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:54 AM): Mark, what's the problem?

weber (8/21/2000 9:54 AM): Andy, are you asking me?

Mark (8/21/2000 9:55 AM): Little response to direct mail... thought telemarketing would generate short term leads vs. long term

Mark (8/21/2000 9:55 AM): PS: I sent a contact form via your web site ... so more on that later

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:55 AM): What business are you in Mark?

Mark (8/21/2000 9:56 AM): Real Estate

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:57 AM): Mark, chances are that you're smiling and dialing hoping that a few numbers will get a response. You working the residential side?

Mark (8/21/2000 9:58 AM): Residential - yes. Contemplating Biz Opp

Mark (8/21/2000 9:58 AM): 1000 calls per month, 50% contact rate = 6 long term leads on avg.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:58 AM): That's a hard row to hoe. Mainly because it takes a lot of psychological strategizing to motivate people regarding something so emotionally-sensitive as their personal space.

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Mark (8/21/2000 9:59 AM): Ahhh... great insight!

Mark (8/21/2000 10:00 AM): I won't "hog" the last two minutes... I sent a form from your web site

RobFrankel ( (8/21/2000 10:00 AM): Okay, you guys! Time to hit the road! See you all online!

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 10:00 AM): Rob, doesn't have a link to your webinar, so I checked on but it doesn't have your seminar listed anywhere :(

Terri Robinson ( (8/21/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks for a great session today, Rob and everyone! See you all next week!

Jeff Wilson ( (8/21/2000 10:01 AM): Rob, thanks for your help! bye.

Chester- (8/21/2000 10:01 AM): ciao for now...

Joel( (8/21/2000 10:01 AM): Jeff, can I contact you offline? I may have some ideas for you. Bye all. Thanks Rob!

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