Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic September 4, 2000

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 8:34 AM): Yes, there is a special Labor Day edition of the Free Clinic, and I'll be back here at 9:00 Am Pacific Time with you to prove it!

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 8:56 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 8:57 AM): Greetings, Rob! You here all alone ?

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:03 AM): Good morning, Bob :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:04 AM): Bob?

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:05 AM): Anyway, I expect that we'll have a fairly low turnout today, so we can relax....

Memo (9/4/2000 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:05 AM): Bob, what can I do for you today?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:05 AM): kewl! In that case, who has the cappuccino? <grin>

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:06 AM): Hi Memo...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:06 AM): We always let the new people go first, so everyone just take turns...and we'll get to everyone.

Memo (9/4/2000 9:06 AM): How's it going today?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:07 AM): Memo, do you have a particular issue I can help with?

Memo (9/4/2000 9:07 AM): Does "new people" mean me?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:08 AM): Sure...if you're new here. Which I think you are...haven't seen you here before.

Memo (9/4/2000 9:09 AM): Rob, I've got lots of issues...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:09 AM): Start with the worst one.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:09 AM): They're usually the most fun.

Memo (9/4/2000 9:09 AM): I'm in the process of setting up some new online sites, among other things

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:10 AM): And....?

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:10 AM): Hi I'm Bob Lazor from Promotions For You. Trying to get our site up and producing. Our results have been very sporadic. Had a good number of hits and several good orders a month or two ago and now nothing. Any thought? Haven't done any promoting lately

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:11 AM): Bob, what exactly do you sell there?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:12 AM): And is this site an extension of an existing business or is it totally independent?

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:12 AM): Promotional Products www.promotionsforyou.com

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:12 AM): How did you originally promote when you got the good activity?

Memo (9/4/2000 9:13 AM): I'm in the process of setting up some new online sites, among other things

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:13 AM): Have been in garment screen printing for 20+ years. So It is an extension of that although we run it completely separate

Memo (9/4/2000 9:14 AM): sorry, lost my input there for a minute - connection stalled

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:15 AM): Okay, so now I understand your network and sourcing capabilities. How are you promoting now? Online or offline? What's your battle plan for raising awareness?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:15 AM): Hold on, memo, we're taking Bob first, then we'll get to you.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:16 AM): Nice site, Bob!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:16 AM): I can tell you right off two things: 1, Looking for something special to promote your business? is too vague. And 2., you're likely perceived as a local supplier, judging by your web site.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:17 AM): From a web design point of view, your home page needs way less copy and one focused message.

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:17 AM): Only promos were search engine registering. Have been looking at a desktop electronic calendar ASI product that I think could be good. Also we are committed to 3 months of advertising with a business group of 4000 small bus members now to Christmas

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:18 AM): Bob, are you budgeted or doing the promotion on a bootstrap kind of thing?

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:19 AM): Yes to an extent. Have earmarked approx. 4-6,000 for online an offline

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:20 AM): You may or may not know me well, but one thing you should know about me is that I hate to spend money. $4k - $6K is hardly enough. With that low budget, you're better off going to the free route and saving the dough for something that really helps.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:22 AM): The two best things you can do for free are 1. Put a strong signature line in every e-mail you send out (which you're probably already doing) and 2. Participating in E-mail discussion lists, like I-PR, I-Sales, I-advertising and of course, FrankelBiz.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:22 AM): I personally have built my entire career on the free route, so I know it works. You simply have to be diligent about it.

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:23 AM): Rob, Bob alluded to registering his site on search engines. Should he be thinking about "invisible pages?" Can you talk a bit about them?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:23 AM): Of course, while your site is nice, it isn't strongly branded, and that's the key to turning users into evangelists. What's the one main message here that will get me to refer your site to my friends?

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:23 AM): Free route? Are my products good fits for alliances? Profit margin fall in the 30-50% range

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:23 AM): Also, get rid of the small timer stuff, like sweepstakes. That "Win $1000" thing telegraphs that you're not serious about your own business.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:25 AM): Steve, the engines are getting more and more rigorous about invisible pages, doorway pages and other gimmicks. In fact, if you notice, even Yahoo, a directory is moving more towards the Google model.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:25 AM): That's a pretty revolutionary thought, Rob! I read a lot of experts saying sweepstakes "are" great

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:25 AM): Bob, if you take the time to participate in a knowledgeable and friendly fashion on those lists, you'll be amazed at how many people will contact you. If you're not on FrankelBiz yet, I suggest you join and post. It's the only list that encourages you to self-promote and make business alliances.

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:26 AM): I hope I'm not taking us on a tangent... What is the Google model?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:27 AM): Terri, sweepstakes are good for only one thing: gathering e-mail addresses. Big deal. What good are they if people don't buy your stuff? If you want to know why people are failing at marketing on the web, it's because they still think that kind of mass media blast works. It doesn't.

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:27 AM): (And I don't want to step in before "Memo.")

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:27 AM): Steve, Yahoo used to be 100% indexed by humans. Google is 100% automated, ranking sites by other criteria, such as how many other sites are linked to yours, etc.

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:27 AM): Am considering the downloadable electronic calendar as a giveaway for registering It will put me on their desktop and is quite useable Any thoughts?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:29 AM): The search engines are smart too - just having a million FFA sites linked to yours is not going to count for link popularity, Steve :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:29 AM): The calendar works for me Bob, but ONLY when you position correctly as "here's a promotion for you that we produce -- and it's yours free right now." It works for me, because you're a promotion house. However, if you go that route, try to find one that works on both Mac and PC. No point in pissing off 18% of the web market....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:30 AM): Anyway, Bob, right now you need to look more global. The Pittsburgh feature immediately says you're a small timer. Think focus and how you can appear to be your users' best solution. What problems do they have that you can answer? That's why they log on and search for your site.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:30 AM): Memo, you want a turn?

Memo (9/4/2000 9:31 AM): Just reading the mail for the moment - you touched on one topic: discussion lists

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:32 AM): Go ahead.

Memo (9/4/2000 9:33 AM): I'm looking to get into discussion lists that are targeted to the groups I want to contact - Interior designers/decorators

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:33 AM): I can't believe you got mail today. The only mail I got today was for Internet Spy software and Cable Descrambler devices.....

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:34 AM): Thank so much. The calendar I am looking at only uses IE. Think it works on both Mac /PC Called "Datewis"

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:34 AM): Memo, if you're on the FrankelBiz list, post to the list and ask about that. I know that at least one member is very heavily involved in that area (she even helped sponsor legislation here in CA for ID's.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:34 AM): I'm sure she can help.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:35 AM): Bob, I don't know about anyone else, but I get very upset when something "only" works on IE and not Netscape

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:35 AM): Terri, would you mind expanding on FFA and what *does* get sites widely recognized? Or should we do this offline?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:36 AM): Funny, Terri, I have the opposite problem. I get stuff that works on NS but not IE. A week or so ago I had to do the Lumapath webinar using NS because Placeware's conferencing software only worked on NS....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:36 AM): Memo, does that help or can I answer something else for you -- or is your mail THAT interesting????

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:37 AM): Steve, Rob already mentioned the big one - participating in discussion groups that are targeted to your market

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:37 AM): Bob, can I make another suggestion?

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 9:37 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:38 AM): Rob, that's hilarious! The other guys that were offering that kewl browser "sticky" (can't remember if that was Lumapath) doesn't have it for NS yet! :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:38 AM): Try placing a "Quick Request" feature right on the front page. A "Wish list" box. Where all the visitor has to do is type in what he/she is looking for and their e-mail address. Hit the send button and that's it.

sjsharpe@regionalreps.com (9/4/2000 9:38 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:39 AM): Terri, the company handling the Lumapath gig was Placeware. It works great, but not on IE for the Mac.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:39 AM): Hi SJS...what can I do for you? (Hi Karyn.....)

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:39 AM): ahhh - okay! It's the Mac they are biased against, and not IE in general!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:40 AM): Oops, that should be Placeware/com

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 9:40 AM): Hello all

sjsharpe@regionalreps.com (9/4/2000 9:40 AM): How does one locate discussion lists targeted to specific areas? For example, I'd like to find out how to join I-Sales or I-advertising mentioned earlier.

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:41 AM): egroups.com is one place to start. Industry journals and magazines is another.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:42 AM): I can give them to you here: Try http://www.audettemedia.com and http://www.i-advertising.org Those two have the heavies. There are others, too.

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:43 AM): I am open to any and all suggestions. What kind of discussion groups would there be on promo products and where do you find them. I am real new to this stuff. Rob what calendar did you find successful?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:43 AM): you can also check http://www.deja.com and yahoo! for discussion groups, SJS. (Hi Karen!)

sjsharpe@regionalreps.com (9/4/2000 9:43 AM): Thanks very much, Rob! Are there any sources/directories for these types of lists?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:44 AM): http://www.e-zinedirectory.com/ is another

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:44 AM): http://www.ezinesearch.com/ is for e-zines.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:45 AM): Maybe even http://www.dominis.com/Zines/?sb

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:46 AM): What a great concept you have, SJS!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:46 AM): And if you don't get all these, this discussion is archived. But the two best, most powerful are the first two I gave you. Oh, one more: http://www.0-a.com, from the tenagra Corp. That's the Online Ads list. Terrific.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:46 AM): That's "O" not zero....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:48 AM): It probably merits a mention here that when you do participate in discussion lists, the key is NOT selling your own wares, but participating in a way that furthers the interests of everyone else on the list.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:49 AM): The ONLY list that prohibits discussion and actually encourages blatant self-promotion and business building is FrankelBiz, which I encourage you to join. It has me and the thousands of member on it a lot of friends -- and money.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:49 AM): Sorry. My connection keeps stalling - I'm down at the end of the line here in Mexico - and thanks for the lead on a member of the FrankelBiz list, Rob.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:49 AM): That is a great reminder, Rob! I know that John Audette really keeps a tight rein on blatant self-promotion there <G>

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:50 AM): Yes, Terri, although if you're smart about it, he'll let some stuff slide. John is a good pal of mine (he endorsed my book). So if you DO plug anything, be open about it. Like if I say something about my book (<---PLUG) ...I'll do that.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:51 AM): I'll remember that, Rob! Thanks :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:51 AM): Of some people get cute and do: <PLUG> "I sold a bunch of widgets to so and so for that reason" </PLUG>

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:52 AM): Just be straight with people and they'll almost always forgive you for a little sales pitch.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:52 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:52 AM): Memo. you're dialing in from Mexico? Cool. You live there?

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:53 AM): Yeah - San Miguel de Allende

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:53 AM): One thing that everyone should remember with discussion lists is that you only have so many hours in the day - choose one or two that are highly relevant to you and be a community member - don't try to get on ALL of them or you won't have time to "DO" business :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:54 AM): Right, Terri....I devote about a total of one hour a day to read and respond. It's the water torture approach to marketing. By and by, every little drip eventually makes an overall impression.

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 9:54 AM): San Miguel? I read a Mary Morris book about that place and it's on my list to go there

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:54 AM): Good point to get into only one or two - but I can't seem to find any that are active for my targeted Groups...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:55 AM): I go anywhere they offer off-season discount coupons.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:55 AM): Memo, Karyn can give you Demi's direct e-mail address. She can help.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:55 AM): San Miguel is Magic! I'm also getting ready to post up an e-book that I've written about it here, though it's fiction set here

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:56 AM): Karyn, Memo, is into the interior design thing.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:56 AM): Incidentally, Memo, I know about Demi because she showed up to one of our famous FrankelBiz Face to face meetings....

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:56 AM): Actually, I'm looking to target designers for Mexican artisans

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): Memo, I know some interior designers. I'll ask them if there are any interactive lists. Start with www.ccidc.org

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): Memo, your site doesn't convey that you are in Interior Design - although it's great for tourism <grin>

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): You never know who knows who, Memo. This is the web, after all.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): AHA! ANOTHER FRANKELBIZ CONNECTION!!!

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): Looks like we'll need to have a FrankelBiz field trip to San Miguel soon!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:57 AM): Demi, I presume, is the lady you were referring to earlier, Rob?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:58 AM): Yes, Memo.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:58 AM): Terri, that's strictly a labor of love - still putting together the stuff for the artisans.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): Hey, the field trip sounds great!

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): Rob, thanks for spending your holiday here with us! Karyn, great to see you! How is your interviewing going?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): Alright you guys, it's Labor Day and my job is cleaning the barbecue before we stuff our annoying relatives with hotdogs....so I'll see you online!

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): My associate here is in charge of "Special Events" for SMA...

Bob Lazor (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): To All This was a great first visit for me Thanks. I've got my work cut out for me. See you all soon

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): I'll buy the first round of Margueritas!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 9:59 AM): Hang out here as long as you like!

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): I interviewed your daughter. Thanks for that connection.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): No, the first round is on me!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): Steve, I'm holding you to that.......

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): you're welcome, Karyn :) I still haven't heard back on the LAPD one

sjsharpe@regionalreps.com (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): Rob and all, thanks for the notes on discussion groups. Stuart

Steve.Siegel@missionaccomplished.com (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): Happy Labor Day, all. Don't work too hard. OK, Rob.

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:00 AM): Terri, could you e-mail me privately? About the Demi thing?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 10:01 AM): Rob, see you next week! Use crumpled aluminum foil to clean the grill <G>

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks Terri. Thanks Rob. Have a nice day all.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 10:01 AM): Memo, it's Karyn that knows about the Demi thing :)

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob - my first time here was great (except for my connection)

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:02 AM): Ahh, sorry! Then , Karyn, could you contact me, please?

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 10:02 AM): Demi? The only Demi I know is Demi Moore?

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:03 AM): Hey! She'll do!

Karyn Zoldan (bridgemarketing.com) (9/4/2000 10:03 AM): Sure memo. Gotta go. Bye all

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:03 AM): Rob mentioned someone in the Interior Design business that was on the FrankelBiz list?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (9/4/2000 10:04 AM): hmmm - I must be confused! Read the transcript of today's chat Memo - you can get the right person from it :) Bye for now! See you all next week!

Memo - webmaster@smacc.net (9/4/2000 10:04 AM): yeah, thanks, Terri - that's the problem with being here in Mexico - always late...

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