Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic September 13, 1999

RobFrankel (9/13/99 8:58 AM): Entered the room.

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 8:58 AM): Greetings!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 8:58 AM): Grrrrreeetings...What's up today?

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 8:59 AM): Hi Rob! how was your holiday?

JimmyHill (9/13/99 8:59 AM): Hi, Rob

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 8:59 AM): good morning Rob.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 8:59 AM): My holiday was fabomundo, Terri. Lots of family and NO ARGUING!!!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:00 AM): Hi Jimmy...you're new, eh? Care to go first or just watching?

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:01 AM): ahhh no arguing !! the ultimate in fantastic

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:01 AM): Kudos to Rob for a lead for a rental and Terri for resume work. Thanks to both!

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:01 AM): At our reunions it's called "discussions"

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:01 AM): Hi Jeremy. Did you get my last e-mail? Visit WebAnswers?

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:02 AM): Yeah, Clayton, Kim will be calling or emailing soon.

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 9:02 AM): yes sir, I did.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:02 AM): Knock off the sir, thing. People will think I'm respectable....

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:02 AM): I have already E-mailed her back.

JimmyHill (9/13/99 9:02 AM): Been watching - I am a football (soccer) pundit here in the UK. There are several already published (is that right) sites dealing with football. My niece told me all about branding (I'll be sure to buy her your book!) and thought that I could launch my own branded football site. I am pretty well known and have managed a team or two myself. What do you think my chances are?

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:04 AM): I'm adding resume writing on as a sideline to my recruiting biz, thanks to your encouragement, Clayton!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:04 AM): Really good, jimmy. As a matter of fact, we have a FrankelBee who is selling/looking to expand his soccer operation.

JimmyHill (9/13/99 9:04 AM): I even thought about syndicating a column to several of theses sites ...

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:05 AM): The reason I bring this up is that your name recognition and his foundation on the web could give you a head start. But if you have OFFLINE awareness, that's really key...

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:05 AM): Wonderful, Terri I think it will compliment your current services nicely!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:06 AM): Syndication is a great strategy... but you don't have to forsake one for the other. Use syndication to promote your own site. I do it all the time and it really drives business.

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:06 AM): I meant compliment..

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:06 AM): :)

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:07 AM): Depending on your level of awareness, you could craft a brand online that way surpasses...and here he is! Benjamin! Glad you signed on. Did you read what Jimmy is saying?

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:07 AM): Good timing eh Rob?

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:07 AM): Well, you could see I was plugging you for this arrangement. It sounds like you and Jimmy are a good match.

JimmyHill (9/13/99 9:08 AM): Hi Ben

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:08 AM): Jimmy, take down Benjamin's e-mail address. I think you two have the raw elements that are worth exploring!

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:08 AM): Hi, Everyone!

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:08 AM): Hello Bees. Today my mission is to sell a house. It could be a fabulous bed & breakfast or a nice family home in small-town Iowa. I have created a website for it at www.tebockhorst.com. Any thoughts on how to market the property or the website?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:09 AM): Holy Cow -- this is a new world record! A new business connection in less than eight minutes!

JimmyHill (9/13/99 9:09 AM): Done - will speak soon Ben. Folks I have to go but see you next Monday - soon Ben

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:09 AM): Jimmy telegea.com is just one of the businesses I am involved in. The other is soccer related.

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:09 AM): I want that house. It's beautiful. your realtor never called me back.

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:09 AM): Andy, the real estate classifieds on yahoo are a good bet.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:10 AM): Andy, I went to look at your house. Nice place. Particularly the shallow graves in the backyard....JUST KIDDING!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:10 AM): Seriously, Andy, I thought you did a great job on it.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:10 AM): Have you gotten any action on it?

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:11 AM): Hello, first time here.

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:11 AM): JoAnna, are you serious? I'll have a nice little talk with the realtor. You can contact me directly at antebockhorst@excellmktg.com if you like. As far as action, it's been slow but steady. We have two fairly good prospects, but they have to sell their houses first.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:12 AM): Wow! selling houses through FrankelBees! a whole new arena, Rob? *grin*

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:12 AM): Hi Tony...what can I do for you?

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:13 AM): You never know how long that will take. I e-mailed all of the B&B association in bordering states and one prospect came all the way from Colorado to see it based on that mailing. Unfortunately, he bought a smaller house just down the street instead...DRAT!

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:13 AM): I sent an email via your site, and never heard anything else. I can't afford the house, but I want it.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:13 AM): Yes, Terri, but I have to go out and buy a really loud, tacky blazer....

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:14 AM): *laffin* I doubt that would look good on you, Rob!

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:15 AM): so, the networking lists are taking off all over the country.

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:15 AM): Just wanted to get a taste of this chat. I've got appts stacked up in 15 min. Been reading your site and will send in a brief desc of my activities soon so I can get more involved. More...

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:16 AM): Hi Stacy...Jump in when you're ready.

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:16 AM): Andy I was talking to Wanda Loska the other day and she is doing some marketing work for a real estate Association. She Might have some other ideas. Try her at Wanda@loska.com I think:)

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:16 AM): Thanks, Rob!

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:16 AM): JoAnna, are you promoting the networking list offline as well ?

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:16 AM): there are 8 people interested in doing what I've done for Southern California!

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:16 AM): That blazer would look good over his Elvis suit!

Hello, good morning everyone. (9/13/99 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:17 AM): oh, yeah, every time I go to an event, I pass out little flyers.

am I still here? (9/13/99 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

Crawford (9/13/99 9:17 AM): Hello everyone. This is also my 1st time here. I have a fledgling online shopping page selling jewelry, I need exposure like everyone one else. Any suggestion on getting the biggest bang for my buck, Actually anyone know of free internet malls that allow free links in exchange for ads etc. Help me out on this as I'm new / www.dcventures.com

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:17 AM): slightly more involved than word of mouth...!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:17 AM): Most of the time, Tony, people wait for someone to jump in with any kind of question, I try to keep it on branding, business and marketing. but you can't keep these guys from helping you any way they can.

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (9/13/99 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:18 AM): Crawford, let me just start by telling you this: for all the energy you're going to invest in linking on to other free malls, you're way better off promoting your own site.

Jacob (9/13/99 9:18 AM): (sorry for my late arrival)

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:19 AM): JoAnna, can I get a copy of the flyer to use for the NAWBO meeting next month?

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:19 AM): Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that most people don't take stuff sold in internet malls seriously

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:20 AM): SURE!! I'll mail it to you!

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:20 AM): Rob -- I have a question about branding. When there's a seemingly subtle difference between two products or services, is there a very effective way to really/strongly get that difference across to people?

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:20 AM): (oops, email of course!)

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:20 AM): Entered the room.

Crawford (9/13/99 9:20 AM): Thanks Rob. Newspaper? Flyers? or just continue to try to get better position in the search engines?

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:20 AM): Working on a major project for the American Cancer Society. Info can be found at www.cancersurvivorsnetwork.org or email me at tlotven@newsofgroup.com. Also helping my wife with her site www.justgourds.com. Would appreciate any visits to these sites and email comments.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:20 AM): BTW, Rob, thanks for that URL for INetPro.. got two good client leads there!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:21 AM): Malls, IMHO, do nothing more than get YOU to promote THEIR site, where you get lost among all of THEIR clients. And that's bad for you

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:22 AM): Stacy, do what almost NOBODY does -- build your Big Time Brand from the end users' point of view. Too many businesses brag about themselves instead of telling people why they are the best solution for those end users' problems.

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:23 AM): I got lost for a second there, anyone else having chat troubles, I am using IE 5.0

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:23 AM): Crawford, you're WAY better off writing articles and placing them on related sites. Give them content in exchange for a link.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:23 AM): it's working fine for me in NS, Guy

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:24 AM): Stacy, you will find that whenever there's parity, CREDIBILITY will win out.

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:24 AM): No troubles here

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:24 AM): Guy, I'm on ie 5. also no problems.

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:24 AM): Guy, but I also have the latest patches from Microsoft..

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:25 AM): Rob -- and when communicating that to the media, talk about it from that position as well, yes?

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 9:25 AM): Crawford, how does your products and prices stack up against www.tradeshop.com?

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:25 AM): Thanks for Wanda's info Clayton... I'll see if she has any thoughts.

Crawford (9/13/99 9:25 AM): Thanks again. problem is where do you get related sites?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:26 AM): Personally, I think the server is a tad constipated today. Yes, Stacy. ALWAYS position yourself as solving EVERYONE'S problems, it's just that you give of yourself to solve them better. Works every time and gets you more press mention....

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:26 AM): It gets so frustrating to *clearly* see the difference, and have journalists report it as though they didn't get it, can't see it, or just don't think it matters.

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:26 AM): Crawford, who do you sell to?

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:26 AM): Your welcome, That's what 'bees do!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:27 AM): Stacy, if you go to my site, you'll see an article called "Frankel's Laws of Big Time Branding". The DIY Corollary states: "Doing it yourself works-- for suicide". Meaning that nobody can do their own branding.

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:27 AM): Rob, I just read where someone offered their list of articles to sites with related interests - actually, a link to the page with articles

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:27 AM): Benjamin: Email me out of chat about the patch please - webmaster@dialone.com will work.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:27 AM): People who do their own branding are like doctors trying to remove their own appendix -- they're too close to do an objective job.

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:28 AM): Thanks, Rob --- and if someone wanted to talk with you about hiring you, what's the best way to go about doing that?

StacyBrice (9/13/99 9:28 AM): Doing it myself --- it certainly has me frustrated Thanks for explaining why! I'll read that article, thanks :)

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:28 AM): Terri, I offer ALL my articles for free NON-COMMERCIAL use, as long as they reprint in total context with all links.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:29 AM): Stacy, you can reach me at rob@robfrankel.com

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:29 AM): Crawford -- who is your target audience?

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:30 AM): rob I'm interested in your opinion of the pets.com ads. (the dog puppet who rides along on deliveries) I just heard a radio ad for them, too... and I actually saw the dog in my head!

Crawford (9/13/99 9:30 AM): Rob I sell to younger people 15-40, if your over 40 I still think your young.... My product is lower end price range. Fashion Jewelry 10-30 bucks. A lot of University students..

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:31 AM): JoAnna, pets.com is doing a wonderful job of raising awareness for the whole industry, which may help them. I think they're fun, but typically wrong-headed.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:32 AM): Crawford, you've got an easy target market! Depending on the type of designs you sell, you can do everything from "cool" communities (the Globe, etc" to EBay. The part you must remember is keeping in mind the word of mouth thing. It works great once y

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:33 AM): Crawford, you could advertise in University newsletters across the US.. should be pretty inexpensive

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:33 AM): what are they doing wrong?

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:33 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:33 AM): Crawford, you should also be seeking out promotional opportunities. At $10, your items could be included in other sites' purchases as a premium item.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:34 AM): JoAnna, interesting you should ask. I just finished reviewing ad agencies for loveatfirstsite.com. I've got $3 million to spend and all five agencies couldn't build a brand or a campaign that differentiated the client....and these are "pro's"

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:35 AM): OKAY EVERYONE, HUSH, THE LEADER'S ABOUT TO SPEAK!!!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:35 AM): These agencies created campaigns, and at the end of each meeting, the client was bright enough to ask, "If you take off my logo from these ads, you could put my competitors' logo there -- and it would work!"

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:36 AM): Rob, is differentiated the same as positioning, only at the top?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:36 AM): ...and it was true. Proving once again that branding and advertising are not the same thing. First you create the brand, then you raise its awareness through advertising.

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:36 AM): Rob, how are they different from their competitors?

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:37 AM): Advertising OR publicity Rob...

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:37 AM): Sort of, Guy. You have to start out by telling everyone what makes you different from the rest. But you have to go beyond that, to "why it is you should see me as your only solution."

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:38 AM): Rob: can the client tell you how he is different, or is he banking on ad agency to come up with something?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:38 AM): That's the interesting part, Andy -- they are very different. For example, you MUST use a real first name. You MUST upload a real picture. They charge more than average, eliminating the riff raff. They auto-email you when someone selects you....lots of

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 9:39 AM): "Real Love for Real People"

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:39 AM): Tony, you hit it on the head. The client needed to see all five agencies fail at branding to understand that they were incapable of it. His only solution is to hire me to do it (or someone like me) or risk directionless, inefficient marketing.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:40 AM): Nice try, Jeremy. But anyone can say that. The problem there it that it doesn't sound CREDIBLE. people are so used to empty promises that they don't take them seriously....

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:41 AM): Also, we found that many men (and some women) don't really want a long term thing. They just want to meet and date lots of quality people....

Hugh (9/13/99 9:41 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:41 AM): My point is that these million-dollar agencies with beautiful offices and funny haircuts don't know jack about branding. That's what throws off their advertising.

Tony Lotven (9/13/99 9:42 AM): Ad agencies tend to have the "Fernando" philosophy. ie "better to look good" and spend lots of money doing it

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:42 AM): Which actually brings us back to JoAnna's pets.com remark. Anyone know why I should use them over anyone else? Not me....

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:43 AM): ...uh, because pets can't drive? :-)

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:43 AM): So pets.com spends millions of bucks making it easier for their competition to enter the market! Thanks, pets.com!

Benjamin Fitts (bfitts@telegea.com) (9/13/99 9:43 AM): I'm going to use petstore.com because they advertise on Stern ;)

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:44 AM): JoAnna, that knock at your door is the thug I sent over to thump you on the head.....

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:45 AM): Anyway, you can see that if you don't clearly articulate your brand, nobody understands it. Not your customers, your ad agency, your PR people, web designer -- nobody!

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 9:45 AM): Make sure he's a big, strong thug. It's laundry day and I could use the brute strength.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:46 AM): One of my other Laws is that "the smaller your business, the more important your brand is" because you don't have the money to keep correcting your image out there. You've got to get it right the first time.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:46 AM): Hugh, feel free to jump in any time....

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 9:47 AM): one of my laws is, "the smaller your business, the harder it is to hire someone to do the branding" so commit suicide, you might get lucky :)

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:48 AM): Rob- how does 'branding' differ from 'targeting a niche'?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:48 AM): Jeremy, I can send the same thug over to your house....but you're right. It doesn't come cheap, until you realize how much it saves you later. I showed that to one client who saved over $500,000 the first year.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:49 AM): Michelle, branding is a statement of leadership that defines you. Targeting is a strategy aimed at developing a tactic.

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 9:50 AM): yeah, but can I pay you out of that money that I will save? Oh, and that thug'll never find me, I live in the woods.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:50 AM): Branding begins with you and your management. What do you want to be? targeting is figuring out how to get to people who will find "what you want to be" attractive enough to compel their patronage.

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:50 AM): Jeremy, he has a compass. (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Guy R Cook - dialone.com (9/13/99 9:52 AM): Is your rate card part of branding (selling by price) or part of Targeting (aiming at people looking for a bargain)?

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:52 AM): ok that makes sense Rob. My problem is that for "survival" I've taken on work that I'm capable of doing, but that is over and above my "primary" product.. if that makes sense.. ?

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:52 AM): So, I'm trying to get refocused on the "who do I want to be" part..

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:52 AM): Actually most people don't realize that the brand belongs in your business plan, long before you raise money or start your business. It truly is your map toward your final goal.

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:54 AM): are we still here?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:55 AM): I need more explanation, Michelle....

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 9:55 AM): I'm here :)

Clayton Turnbow(apimage.com) (9/13/99 9:55 AM): Thanks Rob et al. Gotta run. See you next week!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:56 AM): Guy, EVERYTHING reflects your brand. Your rate card is expressed the way your brand would express it. Stay within the brand's character and values.

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:56 AM): ok... briefly, my main product is the GreatGuests newsletter. Potential radio guests make themselves available to producers.

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:57 AM): I've also taken on additional PR for some of my advertisers but it has taken some of the focus off the newsletter and my marketing efforts for it.

Andy TeBockhorst (www.tebockhorst.com) (9/13/99 9:57 AM): Good info today Rob. Everyone take care!

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:57 AM): Michelle, who are you targeting to -- guests or producers? Is either one primary?

RobFrankel (9/13/99 9:58 AM): Michelle, you're got to prioritize. I know that's hard when you have to pay rent, but if you can't settle in on what you are, how can you expect anyone else to?

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:58 AM): the guests pay to advertise... the producers receive the newsletter for free... so the target has been the guests..

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 9:59 AM): yes, I think that's what I've been trying to acknowledge---prioritizing has to be my priority..

RobFrankel (9/13/99 10:00 AM): Okay you guys, I gotta run. But feel free to hang around as long a you like. I'll see you online!

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 10:00 AM): I love doing all of it.... but unfortunately there aren't enough hours available for that!

Michelle@maxwell-media.com (9/13/99 10:00 AM): thanks rob :)

Terri (recruit2hire.com) (9/13/99 10:00 AM): Thanks Rob! great info today, as always! See you next week everyone!

Jeremy_Weiss (9/13/99 10:01 AM): had fun Rob

JoAnna@VermillionHR.com (9/13/99 10:02 AM): This is always entertaining. My thug is here now, I'm going to make him some breakfast. CIAO!

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