Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic September 18, 2000

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): Greetings, Rob!

Glenda (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): Hello Rob

time? (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): Arik

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): Good morning, everyone! What's going on?

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:01 AM): HI Kathleen! Don't be shy about jumping in. We always let the newest people go first...

Glenda (9/18/2000 9:02 AM): Hi Mark

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:02 AM): Hi Arik -- from Israel, right?

time? (9/18/2000 9:02 AM): Right,

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:02 AM): Same thing for you and mark....just try to take turns so that we don't step all over each other.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:03 AM): Hi, quick question about archives for mailing lists

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:03 AM): So....who's up first?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:03 AM): Go Mark.

Dave (9/18/2000 9:03 AM): Good morning Rob and all - Just read your "Cheap but Good" E-Book - Thanks :-)

Dave (9/18/2000 9:04 AM): I will just "lurk" for a while

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:04 AM): I run a list (Phillylist), geared toward Phila. PA, that I fashioned after Craig's list in San. Fran.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:04 AM): Okay, I've been trying to find a good place to put ads for a non profit organization that doesn't cost huge dollars, know of any?

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:05 AM): People ask about apts, jobs, events, etc. I don't have an archive set up yet b/c I'm afraid people won't subscribe.

Chester ( (9/18/2000 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:05 AM): But people usually ask about it ,so.. my dilemma... archive or no?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (9/18/2000 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:05 AM): Hope you found it helpful, Dave. For those not on the list, I just put a free E-Book up at a complete list but a sampling of vendors and products and free stuff that can help build a business on a shoestring

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:06 AM): If I archive on the web, what's the benefit of subscribing? Unless I delay by a couple of days...

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:06 AM): Mark, I personally think that archiving is essential. Mainly, because 99% of the business you get is from people you never hear from directly.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:07 AM): The ads are for recruiting sales people, to represent a seminar product for entrepreneurs

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:07 AM): For example, FrankelBiz archives each message every single day, as they post. Do I care if people subscribe? Well, if they don't they're only hurting themselves because they have to wait and go to the web.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:07 AM): Do you ever get people complaining about spam b/c their email address is on the post which is now on the web? (For FrankelBiz ,that is?)

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:07 AM): Kathleen, hold're next.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:08 AM): okay

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:08 AM): Mark, I heartily discourage building a community interaction using the web. E-mail is far more effective, because it gets delivered to your audience. They don't have to log on. (9/18/2000 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:09 AM): However, if people don't want to sub, they can always go to the archive -- for which I still get credit when advertisers want to know about response.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:09 AM): Good point.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:10 AM): More importantly, if you want to create a truly interactive community, e-mail is the only way to go. Nobody has time to post to message boards and review them. On the other hand, if yours is really a Craig's list, you want them to log on and review them.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:10 AM): Yup... Thanks Rob.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:10 AM): As far as spamming goes, this is really pretty funny: in my list's history, only four people have ever even attempted to harvest addresses for spam. All four were publicly executed in front of the entire list after having been warned.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:11 AM): That works well!! :)

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:11 AM): Because these wiseguys thought they were so clever, they now have been blacklisted by well over 10,000 people who know who they are. Ten thousand or more people who could have been really good business prospects for them.

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:12 AM): Rob, is it only members who have subbed that can post on the list?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:12 AM): Overall, Mark, the more generous you are (I allow everyone to view my article archives for free, when I suppose I could charge for them), the better you do. Don't be afraid of it. On the web, people not only want news, they want it now. It won't hurt your subscription rate at all.

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:12 AM): I'll give it a go... thanks!

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:13 AM): Yes, Terri, only subscribed members can post to FrankelBiz, but anyone who knows where the archives are can read them

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:13 AM): Kathleen, you want to go ahead now?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:15 AM): Kathleen, you there?

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:15 AM): yes

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:16 AM): Go ahead, Kathleen....

time? (9/18/2000 9:16 AM): I want to explore an idea of direct marketing between (my) community members

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:16 AM): I need a source of inexpensive recruitment ads.... for a non profit

Mark ( (9/18/2000 9:16 AM): I'll give it a go... thanks!

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:16 AM): we need help

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:17 AM): Arik, hold up while we talk with Kathleen. You're next...

time? (9/18/2000 9:17 AM): okay

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:17 AM): Kathleen, do you need a place to post your ads for positions your nonprofits need to fill?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:18 AM): Terri, are you watching this? Terri is an HR person....

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:18 AM): yes, basically I'm looking for a team of individuals who want to help a huge resource organization and get paid decently for doing so, but I'm limited on my own resources and advertising is not in the organizations budget

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:19 AM): I know this sounds obvious, but have you tried job boards like

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:20 AM): Kathleen, you can find some great information on recruiting at Barbara Ling's site - lots of free resources there - I believe

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:20 AM): egads, Rob!! monster charges a fortune <G>

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:20 AM): Good call, Terri....Terri is a Human Resources maven....

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:20 AM): Also check out Kathleen - they are free to join too

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:20 AM): Thank You, I'll give it a try

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:21 AM): Also, Kathleen, if you're into spending a little time, there are lots of HR list to which you can subscribe. I was amazed at how many were listed.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:21 AM): most of the retail sites are very costly and the non profit sites don't get very many hits

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:21 AM): I gotta tell you, I get a ton of business and make great connections from participating on discussion lists.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:22 AM): Terri, Monster may be expensive, but do they have special rates for non-profits? many businesses do...

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:22 AM): true, Rob - is awesome - third party and corporate recruiters there help each other out

Memo - (9/18/2000 9:22 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:23 AM): I'm not sure if monster does or not, Rob

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:23 AM): thanks all this is very helpful

Glenda (9/18/2000 9:23 AM): What type of program are you selling Kathleen...I thought you mentioned a seminar...have you considered adding an affiliate program?

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:24 AM): I represent the NPO in the marketing leg, which is how I get paid in an override from the cost of the seminar.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:25 AM): You know, if I may, I'd like to take a minute to pursue this aspect: if you don't ask for something, you won't get it for sure. Almost every single vendor I know will bargain their rates. The more legit your deal, the better they'll deal.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:25 AM): it is an entrepreneurial training program, to assist in establishing new businesses and help existing go to next level

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:26 AM): very worthwhile and fun

Glenda (9/18/2000 9:27 AM): Can you mention the name of the org Kathleen?

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 9:27 AM): Rob, that is a good point too! I know that even headhunter offers specials to small businesses - if you ask for it or laugh when they quote their first rate *grin*

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:27 AM): However, the one thing you DON'T want to do is to try and get stuff for free. That's a sure sign of a LOSER. And don't approach people by telling them how much business you'll send them. That's another sure sign. Ask for a discount, tell them why, and usually they'll come through.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:27 AM): Hey, I slide my rates that way, too. Every professional does.

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:27 AM): Income Builders International,

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:28 AM): Arik, you want to go ahead? Fire away!

time? (9/18/2000 9:29 AM): Okay. I want to explore an idea of direct marketing between my community members , ant thoughts?

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:29 AM): I 'm not trying for free, this is new to me ,I'm just wondering what would be the best way to get started

Kathleen (9/18/2000 9:29 AM): I do appreciate the suggestions and thank you

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:29 AM): What kind of members do you have? What would you market?

time? (9/18/2000 9:30 AM): My members are site owners. I market networking (connection, business) between them.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:31 AM): Are you talking about ExactResponse? What do you see marketing to them? Are you planning to broker business contacts? What's the revenue model?

time? (9/18/2000 9:33 AM): Yes. I am talking about ExactResponse. I am going to offer members to use our service to "find" people that can "give" to the others "need" - a direct marketing. I'll charge for that.

time? (9/18/2000 9:34 AM): Very focused marketing.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:34 AM): Arik, I bet that strategy won't work, unless there's something you're offering that they can't find anywhere else.

Dave LovePoetry (9/18/2000 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:35 AM): Nobody is going to pay for simply linking to another business. There are too many alternative media to make that work. You've got to do better than that.

time? (9/18/2000 9:36 AM): I see.

time? (9/18/2000 9:36 AM): What do you suggest?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:36 AM): Besides, what kind of charge do you plan on hitting them with?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:36 AM): A flat fee? Percentage of the deal? membership?

time? (9/18/2000 9:37 AM): something about 10$ per month

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:37 AM): For $10 per month, you'd better be prepared to deliver something really tangible on a regular basis. Also, at $10 per month, you're probably going to get really small businesses...micro-businesses.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:38 AM): But even before you set your rate, you have to give them something really concrete. What are you planning to deliver to them?

time? (9/18/2000 9:39 AM): Yes. Small businesses. The tangible is several leads per month. What do you think might be unique?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:40 AM): Listings alone won't cut it. Leads won't cut it, either, because most of these type will be fishing -- more of them looking for business than needing it.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:40 AM): I know that from experience, because FrankelBiz is really what it sounds like you're trying to emulate. But at the moment, your program has no specifics. Why should anyone want to pay you $120 per year, for example, when they can reach people that way for free on something like FrankelBiz?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:42 AM): On the other hand, if you made it your business to deliver real leads to people, you might have something. But personally, I don't see how you're going to do that. If you can figure out how to deliver real biz leads, you can charge way more than $100 per month, I promise you!

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:42 AM): On the other hand, if you made it your business to deliver real leads to people, you might have something. But personally, I don't see how you're going to do that. If you can figure out how to deliver real biz leads, you can charge way more than $100 per month, I promise you!

time? (9/18/2000 9:42 AM): Because FrankelBiz is a "mass" tool. We are a targeted tool on the "need" at the time of "need".

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:43 AM): BTW, if you're interested in something like, you might try looking at These guys are trying something like that, but I don't know how helpful it is.

time? (9/18/2000 9:43 AM): Thanks for the info.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:44 AM): Ah, that's not true. FrankelBiz is not a mass tool at all. It's an interactive community. If you're looking for a point to point type of machine, your model would be more of a B2B portal like Freemarkets and the like. But that's a very heavy investment.

time? (9/18/2000 9:45 AM): Can you describe this model?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:45 AM): And unless you have -- literally -- thousands of member to start with, and big bucks to gain awareness, plus the programs and the back end to deliver a service like that, you could be in for a long wait. You've chosen a tough model to tackle on a shoestring.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:45 AM): You should also check out a client of mine, This is very much what you're aiming at.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:46 AM): Yes, actually, the more I think about it, is exactly what you're competing with.

time? (9/18/2000 9:46 AM): Okay. I'll check them out. Thanks for the "brain storm".

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:47 AM): But has over $60 million in venture funding behind it, much of which was used to buy something like 50,000 vendors' participation.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:47 AM): Sure, no problem,.....anyone else?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:48 AM): Rod -- I think you're want to jump in while we still have time?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:50 AM): WebGuerilla?

Dave (9/18/2000 9:50 AM): About the 'site spamming' problem mentioned earlier, there is a way to prevent SpamBots from harvesting email addresses from your web site. If anyone is interested I can email the tip to you. I don't know if it works or not LOL.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:50 AM): I find that the public executions are the most effective, frankly....

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 9:51 AM): Hey Rob, I got a question about doing contract work for large agencies.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:51 AM): Go, Web...

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 9:53 AM): The recent deal with 24/7 media buying an SEO firm for 95 mil has resulted in several other firms like them contacting me about SEO. I know you have been on that side of the fence. What should I look out for? (9/18/2000 9:53 AM): Rob -- I'm just lurking.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:55 AM): Wow, that's a lot to ask. I'm no lawyer, but among the bugaboos you should watch out for are anything having to do with exclusivity. Also, payment procedures are often not specified in contracts. make sure you know what you're getting paid for and when to expect the check.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:56 AM): I also always insist that the contract and agreement are within the legal jurisdiction of the city in which I live. That way, if we do ever have to go to court, I only drive a few miles, and they have to fly in their lawyers....

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 9:57 AM): I'm just getting ready to send a post looking for a new attorney. Any suggestions?

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:57 AM): Remember, the 90% of all business agreements are written to outline procedures when things go wrong, not when they go right. Think about the agreement as a guide that explains to the client how YOU do business, complete with your expectations. be very specific, because when their lawyers and judges read it, that's what they'll be looking for.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:58 AM): Greg, just find the bet attorney you can -- and pay their rate. Work with someone who is not only good, but efficient. Don't be afraid of paying by the hour, if they're efficient.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 10:00 AM): Web, in your post you should ask for fellow FrankelBees to recommend someone they have used - much more effective than asking a lawyer to tell you about themselves *smile*

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 10:00 AM): I'm not afraid to pay.. I just want someone who is web savvy and understands this business.

RobFrankel ( (9/18/2000 10:00 AM): Okay, everyone...thanks to our new folks who jumped in....I've gotta run. I'll see you all online!

time? (9/18/2000 10:00 AM): Thanks.

WebGuerrilla (9/18/2000 10:01 AM): That is exactly how I'm writing it :-)

Terri Robinson ( (9/18/2000 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob! Great session today! See you all next week

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