Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic September 28, 1998

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 8:58 AM): oops excuse my typo :), Rob should be here soon, he is on the same time zone as I

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 8:59 AM): hi Bob, how are you today? Anything happening?

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 8:59 AM): Hello all!

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:00 AM): hello Tina, grab a cup of coffee, Rob is late :)

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:00 AM): No Louise.. just waiting for those more knowledgeable than myself so that I can soak up some wisdom.

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:01 AM): It's lunch here on the right coast... got my soda in hand... thanks!

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:01 AM): (Pant, pant) Having trouble with browser...

Jacob (9/28/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:02 AM): Hi everyone....what's going on today? Who's up first?

Jacob (9/28/98 9:02 AM): Hi everyone, ready for some major collaboration and networking?

Jacob (9/28/98 9:03 AM): I know I am... Just got off with a fellow Bee and I see good things in our future!

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:03 AM): Bob was just ready to share some wonderful wisdom ;)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:03 AM): Tina! How are things on the east coast?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:03 AM): Tina! How are things on the east coast?

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:04 AM): Awesome... My company was acquired and I have accepted the position of Marketing Director... doing just what I was doing (internet marketing) plus some... And we have beautiful weather today!

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:06 AM): As my accountant said, sometimes the name of the growth game is acquire or be acquired.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:07 AM): Yeah, it's MUCH easier to grow by acquisition than any other way.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:08 AM): Does everyone here know about Bob's contest promotion?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:08 AM): Tina, what does your company do? and how are you marketing it?

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:10 AM): e.magination Network is an e-commerce firm... strategic planning, web development, hosting, marketing... Right now there is a sales staff of 5, but up until now they have had no marketing support for the company itself, just what I was providing on a sub-contract basis to it's clients.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:11 AM): let's hear about Bob's promotion

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:11 AM): Entered the room.

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:12 AM): Good Morning everyone

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:12 AM): Bob, tell them about this. I want to hear the reactions...

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:12 AM): Thanks for the plug Rob... The offer just came out in one of Friday's FrankelBee letters

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:12 AM): Feel free to email me from the web site Now Bob, what's with the promotion?

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:13 AM): Good Morning Scott

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:13 AM): Okay.. We put up a $1000 cash prize... and you participate in giving it away.. for a $100 fee (in a nutshell)

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:14 AM): I met Bob on last week's chat and we got together later on the phone to discuss promoting sweepstakes. He provided me with some sites to visit and I got some ver good results. Thanks again Bob.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:14 AM): We tell everyone we can about it and you get traffic by the hundreds per day

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:14 AM): So you've got to pay to play, yes?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:14 AM): Well, it's more than that, Bob. The idea is that Bob's company puts up the $1000 prize, that all the contest participants promote, right?

Jacob (9/28/98 9:14 AM): What is the advantage to hosting your giveaway on our sites?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:15 AM): You're welcome Scott.. It's nice to network

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:15 AM): is it a giveaway? That is a pretty high premium:(

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:15 AM): So 500 sites can participate, but only one visitor from the 500 sites will win the prize.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:16 AM): Yes it is a give-away, but WE put up the $1000 cash prize, not you.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:16 AM): You've got it Rob.. sort of like Publishers Clearinghouse representing 100 magazines

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:17 AM): I like the concept as it ties right into the masses need for instant gratification..i.e free money.

Jacob (9/28/98 9:17 AM): So basically our advantage is in getting lots of traffic. But it's not very targeted! I can put the word "sex" in my meta tags and get just as much traffic, that doesn't mean that my site is a success or that I got new customers

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:17 AM): It's a very ingenious concept. It's really aggregating contest sponsors.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:17 AM): The advantage to you is that thousand of people will come to your site to find the sweepstakes and will see your site in the process

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:18 AM): I see possible benefit in page views, but how might this equate to qualified or targeted markets?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:18 AM): Jacob, you are exactly correct, it is not targeted, but since the folks can enter every day, they will return again and again and will become familiar with you.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:19 AM): We are not the only ones that can market it either.. YOU CAN.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:20 AM): Bob, do you have an data on the demographics of people who enter contests in general? Do you have a way of gathering an data on people who enter your contest?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:20 AM): Bob, what kind of minimum activity can a site expect?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:20 AM): If you market to YOUR audience, then some percentage of them will come to win - and maybe buy

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:20 AM): We're seeing 200-300 per day right now

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:21 AM): I find it a great way to get site recognition. If people know that you have a widget at a good price, they will most likely to buy that widget from you because they have visited your site numerous times and you have provided a stable web presence which equates to a stable and trustworthy vendor.

Jacob (9/28/98 9:21 AM): Ok, I'm starting to see the benefit, if I put up banner ads on targeted sites advertising a $1000 giveaway, that might be good.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:21 AM): hmmm... I see a possibility, if we say to the client, buy something, AND then you can enter the free giveaway tongue in cheek;

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 9:22 AM): Go Louise Go :)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:22 AM): Legally, at least in the USA, there are lottery and weepstakes laws. This has to be free to American users, no obligation to buy.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:23 AM): Weepstakes? SWEEPSTAKES....

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:23 AM): Bob, do you provide any demographic information on the people who enter the contest?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:24 AM): True Rob. And it's void in Florida because they don't allow online contests unless an alternative (mail in) method is offered.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:24 AM): but can we put it as: Thank you for buying from Green Cottage Soap. Would you like to enter our free sweepstakes for a chance to win $1000? Does that count? If we make no reference to it first?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:25 AM): Scott, we will give you the names, addresses, emails, etc. on all of those who entered the sweeps through your site.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:25 AM): Do people have to sign a guestbook to enter?

Jacob (9/28/98 9:25 AM): Bob, and you make money because 500 sites pay you $100 and you only give away $1000. Pretty good deal.

Jacob (9/28/98 9:25 AM): Bob, and you make money because 500 sites pay you $100 and you only give away $1000. Pretty good deal.

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:25 AM): Excellent!

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:25 AM): I don't this so Louise.. the OFFICIAL rules say "no purchase necessary to enter"

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:26 AM): Gosh, if we get 500 to pay it WOULD be a good deal

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:26 AM): Don't forget Jacob, Bob has a lot of admin to pay for out of that $5000.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:27 AM): oh ok :) so that is a no-no ;)

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:27 AM): No rob, they just fill out the registration form. See

Jacob (9/28/98 9:27 AM): Rob, that's $500,000. Not $5,000

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:28 AM): Hmm, I see a distinct advantage if more businesses sign up for Bob's contest. He gets more income and possibly increases the pot. Win-Win.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:29 AM): You know, it's a creative and different idea, but I'm just not sure how to market it - I'm stuck. I sure would like some advice from some of you smart marketing types....

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:29 AM): Jacob, how about 50,000? :)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:29 AM): What I'm not clear on is how I get more publicity from sources OTHER than my site. Bob?

Jacob (9/28/98 9:30 AM): Ok, you're right Ira. I just knew it was more than $5,000.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:30 AM): you see, I think an extra 200-300 hits a day isn't worth me spending 100$, I am being honest here. My market is targeted, and I am already getting 10K hits a week

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:30 AM): Okay, so no math majors on this list....I have a feeling Bob would love 50 sites at $100....

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:31 AM): Rob. we list the availability of your sweeps on all the biggest sweeps sites. The entrants HAVE to go to your site to enter.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:31 AM): make this worth my while?! :)

Jason Gollan (9/28/98 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:31 AM): Rob, This very chat session is, at least in my mind, a very powerful marketing tool. All participants get free, up-to-date information.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:32 AM): Okay, but if 25 sites are participating, how do you differentiate my site from theirs when you post to the sweep sites?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:32 AM): Louise, if your getting that much traffic... I think that you should be helping me!

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:33 AM): Yes, Scott. Thanks for mentioning it. It's another tool that will grow as soon as I can get us to a major sponsored site.

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:34 AM): Louise, I think all of us would like to know how you built that level of traffic with a targeted audience.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:34 AM): We post it as the "Rob Frankel $1000 Cash Sweepstakes" and give them the link to your site. You just put one of our banners on your site that links to the registration form.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:34 AM): Louise, if $100 got you 200 new visitors per day for a whole month, that would be a great deal... but on its own, just joining this contest isn't going to get you the traffic... the point seems to be that this is a free offer that you can use when you promote in other places... if you already have a successful angle you use when you promote your site, this may not help, but if you are looking for an angle, then it could be valuable..

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:36 AM): thanks Ira, for clarifying that :)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:36 AM): I think what I'm sensing is a need for people to understand how the contest can mention THEIR name in OTHER places besides their own sites...

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:36 AM): Louise, there is a LARGE benefit to you. The 10K visitors that come to your site can enter the sweeps every day, so they will bookmark your site and return over and over for weeks - building name recognition and traffic

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:37 AM): maybe it should be run like a Welcome Wagon type service?? do you see what I am getting at?

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:38 AM): Bob, are you doing anything to help participating sites use the contest to build traffic, or are you leaving that all up to them?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:38 AM): WHOA, cowboy....Bob, do you have anything to suggest that people actually do come back day after day to register? I imagine that participants would want to see that.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:39 AM): You're making a claim that's pretty big. Repeat visits, do you know?

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:39 AM): To clarify, Bob, I'm not talking about getting repeat traffic from current visitors, instead I mean are you doing anything to help them attract new visitors using the contest as an angle?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:39 AM): We are marketing the sweeps to all of the largest sweepstake sites and doing as much as possible to let others know about each individual one.. If 50 sign up.. we are promoting 50 sweepstakes as if they were all unique

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:40 AM): Yes rob, about 40% of the daily registrations are return visitors

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:41 AM): Representing the new entrants to Internet commerce arena, to have a guaranteed way to generate any significant amount of traffic is worth the money that Bob is asking.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:41 AM): We collect all of the data in a large database and get a constant measure of unique (or new) entrants vs. return visitors

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:41 AM): 40%? That's a double-edged sword. The next thing they'd want to know is that these aren't just gameplayers, but eventual buyers. Do you have a conversion rate yet?

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:41 AM): So, if my target market demographics happen to match the demographics of people who go to sweepstakes sites, this would be good - otherwise, the traffic is not going to be too valuable to me... and I prefer a small number of targeted visitors over large numbers of untargeted traffic any day

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:42 AM): No, we're leading the horse to water, but it's too new to know how many will drink

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 9:42 AM): Ira, you just hit the nail on the head :)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:43 AM): Okay, so getting to Bob's original question, I think your basic flaw is the WAY in which you present your data and to whom you present it.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:43 AM): You've hit the nail on the head, Rob - if these visitors don't turn into buyers, they are just slowing down the web server and getting in the way of people who are buyers

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:43 AM): Ira, all we can do is shotgun marketing, but you can do the targeted stuff.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:44 AM): Bob, you have to be pickier about WHO you pitch this program to: go for high-volume, mass merchandiser types who thrive on big volume. NOT smaller, niche-based sites.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:44 AM): Rob, agreed, but that's where I need the help.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:45 AM): Bob, overall I do think this is an idea with fantastic potential, but only to certain types of businesses

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:45 AM): Bob, you could work on the targeted markets as well by giving away that very product or service that the target audience wants.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:45 AM): The other thing you have to pitch to these guys is data about consumer behavior. Convince them that repeat visitors don't just play, they buy.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:46 AM): I know its a good idea.... HELP!

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:46 AM): If I can throw in a new topic here, I was hoping to get some feedback on a new service I'm about to launch, this could even help Bob...

Scott Baker (9/28/98 9:46 AM): Imagine giving away $5 hours of legal services. Great for drawing new legal client to a law firm.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:46 AM): I'm all ears Ira

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:46 AM): Bingo, Scott. They might want that more than money, but it also could cut down the general participation, because everyone wants cash.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:46 AM): Go Ira...

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:46 AM): As many of you know, I am the List Editor of Marketing Tip of the Day (MTOTD), a newsletter that delivers an online marketing Tip each business day. I am often asked for more detail or other help related to the tips we publish. To meet this need, we are about to launch a new service, "Interactive Marketing Modules".

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:47 AM): Each week-long module will be based on a series of resources and assignments about a specific online marketing topic, and will include a private digest style discussion group for clients who choose either a Basic or Detailed Package.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:48 AM): Scott (just to follow up, but not interrupt Ira), We can set up a contest to give away ANYTHING you want. It doesn't have to be cash... it can be one of your products or services.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:48 AM): In addition to the resources and discussion group, the Basic Package includes one private email with personalized feedback on any issue related to the topic of the module. The Detailed Package includes feedback on all assignments that are included with the module, plus up to one hour of additional support via email or phone.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:50 AM): Few examples, then I'll shut up and listen to feedback :)... the first two modules I plan to offer are: using a free article available via autoresponder to gather names of prospects; and using DejaNews to market via newsgroups. OK, comments or questions?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:51 AM): Who do you see as the beneficiaries of the service (from the content end)?

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:52 AM): Rob, I see this as essentially a coaching service, to help people who are doing their own online marketing, but who sometimes need some help.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:52 AM): Like ME!

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:52 AM): What kind of pricing?

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:53 AM): I have 2-3 existing clients who will be participating in the first module about using articles via autoresponders, and this is a better deal for them than if I helped them with the same material in the course of the hourly consulting I'm providing now.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:53 AM): Bob, I'm gonna suggest something for you to think about: birds of a feather flock together.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:54 AM): Pricing (before discounts I'll be offering to FrankelBiz and MTOTD subscribers) is tentatively $29 for the basic package, and $129 for the Detailed Package. Will also have discounts for purchase of multiple modules.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:54 AM): Also, the easiest sale is to another salesman. I suggest you run a contest for yourself and market it accordingly to site hosts. Chances are that those who respond are most likely to buy into contest promotion as a strategy for themselves.

Jacob (9/28/98 9:55 AM): Bob, could you send over your email address, after the chat I want to talk.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:55 AM): Hmmm ... sound like a good idea.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:56 AM): sure

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:56 AM): Ira, I know that this works well for telephone bridging and coaching. In fact, we have a new FrankelBee who does just that. I once tried something similar to this about two years ago, but the market was too young.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 9:56 AM): Ira, is the pricing one-time or per session

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:57 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

RobFrankel (9/28/98 9:58 AM): Umm, that should have read "telephone BRIDGING"

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 9:58 AM): Basic Package is one time email, plus the prelim reading material and the week-long discussion group... The Detailed package is for the full service for the week.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 10:00 AM): Ira, how is it done? Do I get to see the basic topic like it is now (I'm one of your subscribers) and then choose to pay for additional help?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 10:01 AM): Well, I can tell you that I keep my articles open and free for download, where they seem to generate a lot of goodwill. I can't see where people will pay for articles. People want a sense of personalization. Even consulting by e-mail, in my experience,

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:01 AM): The module topic will be the topic of a series of tips... if you pay, you get additional tips or other content, in addition to personal attention.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:03 AM): daily tips will always be free, it is the added content, the private discussion digest only open to people who have similar needs, assignments with personalized feedback, and an additional hour of either phone or email support that they are paying for

RobFrankel (9/28/98 10:04 AM): Is there a time limit? (Five minutes)

Scott Baker (9/28/98 10:05 AM): How do you plan to stand out from the numerous sites that post like information for free? How do you plan to convince your target audience that your information is worth the money?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 10:05 AM): So, if I really like the idea of the autoresponder module and want to take a crash course in how to use that technique, I could pay $29 for that module and get some personalized help. If my paraphrase is correct, I love the idea.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:05 AM): yes, they will have to use their time within 2 weeks.

RobFrankel (9/28/98 10:06 AM): Ira, sounds like a bear. I'd hate to be on your end of the phone trying to tell someone that their time had run out....

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:06 AM): I'm not just posting information, I'm giving a way to get expert advice related to the information that I'm already posting...

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:07 AM): General info is free, but personal attention costs, this is just a structured way to give that attention

RobFrankel (9/28/98 10:07 AM): Ira, there is another company that is doing something a tad related: they are selling prepaid help like others sell prepaid phone cards. Not competitive to you, but it does introduce a different model.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 10:08 AM): Rob, I do like that idea. lots

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 10:08 AM): how are they doing that? I sure could sell some prepaid help :)

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:09 AM): Rob, I'll be giving more than their money's worth assuming they actually do their assignments... and if they want additional consulting, then they can contract with me for my customized consulting services.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:09 AM): Any idea what the URL of that site is Rob?

Jacob (9/28/98 10:09 AM): I am more of a purist myself, nothing against you Ira, I just think that with enough work and creativity one can learn to do anything on their own without paying for help.

Tina Thomas (9/28/98 10:10 AM): Ira, I've got thoughts on this and will have to email you... Gotta Run... Bye All!!

Bob Garber (9/28/98 10:10 AM): This is more analogous to the shopping mall of experts. As I stroll along - looking at all of the options - I can choose to pay $29 or more for expert advice on the topics that I need most.

Scott Baker (9/28/98 10:10 AM): So you are helping them define their environment through the assignments then consulting on how to optimize the environment?

RobFrankel (9/28/98 10:11 AM): I gotta run, as well. Feel free to stick around, though. I'll see you guys online.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:11 AM): Jacob, that is fine and I know a lot of people feel the same... but the point of this is that some people would rather spend some money to save themselves time by getting help from an expert, because the value of the time they save is greater than the expense of the service.

Louise the SoapLady (9/28/98 10:12 AM): Rob, before you go, can you give us that URL?

Scott Baker (9/28/98 10:12 AM): Signing off myself. See you next week.

Bob Garber (9/28/98 10:12 AM): Ira, when will this go up? I'd like to look into it.

Jacob (9/28/98 10:12 AM): Good point Ira- the time factor. In any case, I gotta run, see you all next week.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:12 AM): Yes, Scott, that sounded right.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:13 AM): Bob, and anyone else interested, I hope to post to FrankelBiz and a special announcement to mtotd in the next day or so, in order to start the first module next week... I'll also post a tentative schedule of the next several modules I plan to offer.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:15 AM): Thanks for all your help everyone... anything else before I run?

Bob Garber (9/28/98 10:16 AM): Looking forward to seeing it. Bye now.

Ira Pasternack (9/28/98 10:18 AM): bye

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