Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic October 5, 1998

RobFrankel (10/5/98 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Jacob (10/5/98 8:59 AM): Hey, we're the only two here?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:00 AM): Well, you're usually late. It takes a few minutes before people show up.

Jacob (10/5/98 9:00 AM): Well, I just got home 1 minute ago from the synagogue. Happy Sukkoth.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:00 AM): Right back atcha.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:01 AM): Are you still coming out next weekend?

Jacob (10/5/98 9:01 AM): Yep, I can't wait.

Jacob (10/5/98 9:02 AM): I love my visits to LA, I come about 3-4 times a year.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:02 AM): Hi Guys...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:02 AM): See? Here's Ira. Another power player...

Jacob (10/5/98 9:03 AM): Hi Ira, what's the good word?

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:04 AM): Just working hard on the "Interactive Marketing Modules" I mentioned last week... announced to MTOTD on Friday, will be posting to FB today.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:04 AM): And here's Bob.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:04 AM): Ira, are you pre-testing this stuff before you try it?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:05 AM): the content is tested, the exact model hasn't been, but I'm starting slow before I promote on a wide scale...

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 9:07 AM): morning everyone !! :)

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:07 AM): What type of pre-testing are you referring to Rob?

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:07 AM): Hello all

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:08 AM): Any sort of receptivity test before you announce it?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:10 AM): I suppose the official test is happening as I introduce the concept... but before I announced to anyone else, I got commitments from several existing clients who are very interested in the concept, so I pretty much will "break even" even if no one else signed up

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:11 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:11 AM): Ira, I was thinking about it over the are you going to track all this stuff?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:11 AM): Hi! We just finished putting up the final boards for our sukkah (religious outdoor temporary structure). There are many advantages and disadvantages to working at home; I'm not sure which of the two this is. :-) Happy Sukkoth, Jacob, et. al.!

Jacob (10/5/98 9:12 AM): Thanks David, you too!

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:12 AM): There's a new member on the list who promotes telebridging via prepaid phone cards.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:12 AM): And, the model was designed taking questions and feedback from MTOTD subscribers into account... I'm not sure yet how much interest there will be, but based on requests I have received from subscribers, there should be some decent interest...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:12 AM): You guys are making me feel like a heel for not building one...

Jacob (10/5/98 9:13 AM): You should be ashamed of yourself Rob!

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:13 AM): What kind of tracking do you mean?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:14 AM): How do you track payment versus content delivery?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:14 AM): No, no, Rob; every person has to do what they are comfortable doing!! It's only recently that *we* started...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:14 AM): Oh fine, Jacob, 5,000 years of persecution isn't enough? I need more from you?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:15 AM): If it makes you feel any better, last year's model didn't work out too hot. (Then again, it's tough to build with four shattered limbs. :-)

Jacob (10/5/98 9:15 AM): Don't worry Rob, when I see you next week I'll straighten you out.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:16 AM): Unless I've missed a part of it, Ira, I was wondering how you provide continuity. Do you deliver content per payment?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:16 AM): Ira, could you give a thumbnail of what this project is?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:17 AM): First of all Rob, I'll be limiting the number of people who can participate in any given module... and I'll have a checklist of what each client has paid for and what they are owed.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:17 AM): (Rob, you gotta ask your tech person: 1. Allow me the option of refreshing when *I* want, and 2. Allow me to view further back in the chat, so in case Ira already described it, I could read his post.)

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:17 AM): I'll see if I can answer David's and Rob's questions at once...

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:18 AM): Oh, it's easy, Ira; just click "open new window" on that menu bar that mysteriously appeared on your forehead :-)

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:18 AM): David, it's a non-Java, HTML chat. This is the best I could get.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:19 AM): I prefer non-Java, Rob. Both features can be implemented easily. See; I think that code is actually available for free.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:19 AM): Also, David, Ira described it last week, which is the Free Clinic archives. But we ran out of time...

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:20 AM): Oh, sorry; I'll go find the archives.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:20 AM): David, the concept I'm talking about is a new service based on my "Marketing Tip of the Day" Newsletter, called "Interactive Marketing Modules"... the IMMs provide a subscriber with value added features including additional exclusive content and assignments, the chance to interact with other business owners who are working on similar things, and the ability to get feedback from the expert who wrote the series of tips (initially I'll be writing most of the series, but that will change if the model takes off)

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:22 AM): Rob, each Module is one way of accomplishing one of the key aspects of an Internet Marketing Plan, and they are designed so clients can mix and match modules according their own plan...

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:23 AM): ok; thanks, Ira. I am subscribed to MTotD, but I'll confess it's not always easy to read everything that pours into my in-box :-(

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:23 AM): Yeah, but let's get to the money: How does the Pay to Play model work in this set up?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:25 AM): There are two options, Basic and Detailed package...

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 9:25 AM): well, I went to that URL, I do like this one better, sorry :)

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:26 AM): Yeah. Louise, Brian Rickman gave me this one and it seems to be the best so far...

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 9:27 AM): yes, Rob, I was there at the beginning :)

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:27 AM): Louise, yes, this has better content, obviously. ;-) And I wasn't really trying to compare, more just saying that one can have both auto-refresh and manual, if desired.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:27 AM): Both packages include the extra content, assignments, and subscription to private email discussion... plus, the Basic includes Private Email support for one assignment... Detailed includes Feedback on *all* assignments included in the Module, plus up to one hour of additional support via email or phone

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:28 AM): The reason I brought up the prepaid phone cards is that it seems to be catching on in a lot of service areas, for example, tech support for software and hardware companies.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:29 AM): But how do you control the time-out on the service? When you're on the phone with someone, do you just say, "Oops! That's it! Put in another nickel"?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:29 AM): So Rob, are you suggesting I could sell a prepaid card that included a fee that would go to me for the time spent on the phone?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:31 AM): Yes, definitely, Ira, you should consider that for a couple of reasons: First, it gets you all the money up front. Second, your clients know they're on the clock and don't feel like you're squeezing them. They can always recharge the card.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:31 AM): There's 900 #'s, but the service is very expensive...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:32 AM): No David, the 900#'s are cheap. I was thinking of doing that at one time, but pay-per-call consulting doesn't really fit my model.

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 9:32 AM): now I think THAT is an idea :)

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:32 AM): I give plenty of warning... and plenty of value, so in general I really don't foresee a problem... the phone support portion is similar to telephone coaching, which is something I'm also going to start doing in a more general sense... but I like the idea of the phone card, has that person posted to FB?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:33 AM): oh, price must've dropped over the years. I had a partnership in one a while back (one of the few non-sex, non-gambling ones), and the base fees ate up most of the profits. :-9

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:34 AM): That was supposed to be a :-( not :-9 (what's that, a lollipop? ;-)

Jacob (10/5/98 9:34 AM): sorry, I gotta run, time to eat lunch in the you-know-what.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:35 AM): lunch sounds like a good idea; can you attach that in an email?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:35 AM): Actually, there are two FB's. One is doing coaching, the other is providing the phone cards.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:36 AM): Coaching using the cards? hmmm, I have been reading all the posts, but must have skimmed past the ones you are referring to without realizing the potential...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:37 AM): Yeah, Louise, but the problem I had with 900 and tele-consulting is that it tied me down to real time phone calls. That doesn't work for me, because it's too restrictive to my schedule -- miss a call and you're out of luck.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:38 AM): Actually, Ira, many people contact me about the FrankelBiz list BEFORE joining, and they describe their businesses to me. So I know a lot more about them from that and their entry data when they subscribe.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:39 AM): It's a very interesting program and they leverage their universe of attendees to promote your program, I think, so it expands your audience. I'm still not too clear on how they do it, though.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:39 AM): So should I post a request to the list, or can you let me know who I might contact about this?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:39 AM): Rob, when they do that, could you just ask their permission to post their own introduction as they join?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:40 AM): Ira, I'll put you in contact with both of them. E-mail me your contact numbers and I'll fix it for you.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:41 AM): Nah, David, that gets me into more labor intensive stuff. Besides, they need to WANT to post...and in time, they do. But you want them to be motivated and comfortable to post.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:41 AM): ok, Ira; I finally finished reading *last* week's chat archives. (You're not the only one multi-tasking ;-) Now I think I understand what u r up 2.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:41 AM): Hey, does anyone else have any issues they want to discuss before it gets too late?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:42 AM): agreed, Rob

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:42 AM): anyone going to NYC for IW '98?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:42 AM): Bob, any movement on the contests?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:42 AM): Louise, you making more bubbles?

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:43 AM): I'm heading down tomorrow, David... will be there Tues afternoon and Wed. 'til early afternoon... will you be there?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:43 AM): I can't afford a booth, so I printed up a bright yellow T-shirt, and I'll be wearing a hat, to attract attention ... "Push MY button!"

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:43 AM): Nope. I only go places when they pay my way....

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:43 AM): I love that David!

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:44 AM): Movement on the sweepstakes is slow Rob. I'm not sure why.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:44 AM): I'll be there Wed, and possibly Thurs if I am able to sell enough advertising to cost-justify the hotel room. (I normally sleep in NJ, and take PATH over; saves $300)

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:44 AM): thanx, Rob!

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:45 AM): Bob, you gotta make sure you're aiming at the right target. Small businesses, but not cheap ones. Volume sites, not content.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:46 AM): The traffic that we can GAURANTEE in a month is as much as you would get with 200,000 ad views of a banner, but $100 is still too much!?

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:46 AM): One little detail that I'm surprised no one else has thought of for promotional T-shirts: I asked them to print the stuff right below the neck-line, (on both sides) rather than across the chest; makes a difference with height & eye contact

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:46 AM): David, just looked at your site... how many people use the service? also, do you know how many start the process but don't follow through?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:47 AM): And when I say small business, I mean legit businesses, not micro-businesses. Micro's are often penny-wise and pound foolish. They are bootstrap operations that aren't comfortable investing in marketing or advertising.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:48 AM): How long of a period does $100 buy?

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:49 AM): Well, I offered the remainder of the current sweeps for $100 (it ends on October 23rd).

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:49 AM): I also believe that people don't understand the concept. If I were buying this, I'd want to know that the service will bring in NEW bodies, not repeat visits from regulars.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:49 AM): Only two weeks left now.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:50 AM): Also, I would want to know that by clicking a banner somewhere ELSE, it would bring them to my site.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:50 AM): We have 50,000 Members, but I don't have good stats on your latter question, Ira.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:51 AM): No, Bob, when you start a contest, how long does $100 last? And BTW, any business should be able to start their participation at any time, even if you have to pro-rate their fee.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:51 AM): 60% are new, but isn't repeat traffic good. They aren't all "regulars" until they begin to return

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:52 AM): Bob, volume sites want NEW bodies. They get the regulars back on their own. Of course, you can help them, but they don't NEED you for that.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:52 AM): Yes Rob, we price it per sweepstakes week (our special offer was for 4 weeks, but there are only two left now)

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:52 AM): Want to try to meet for a bit on Wed. David? I have some time in the morning...

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:52 AM): Ira, I could probably measure who created a form, and then wait a certain number of hours or days to see if they test the form. It's a good issue, but there are other areas that bear concentrating on first, like only 20% of the front-page visitors actually create a form at all.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:53 AM): Sure, Ira; where/when?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:53 AM): And as a sales tool, you should offer them a three contest deal with the fourth one for free.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:53 AM): (SEVEN MINUTE WARNING)

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:54 AM): It gets you more bucks up front and provides the fence sitters with a value that could tip them over to you.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:55 AM): Yes, we pro-rate the cost. Yes, people will find links to your sweeps in other places. We will be putting up a web site soon, and will start our subscription newsletter this week.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 9:56 AM): David, give me your phone number and I'll call you to figure that out, or email me at

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:56 AM): first I get kicked off the modem, now it seems everyone else did :-(

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:56 AM): (215) 576-6800

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:56 AM): No, David, we never left.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:56 AM): How do I reach those small (but not too small) businesses?

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:57 AM): Guys, do remember that this is publicly archived.

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:58 AM): Yeah, I know. I thought about that after I hit "Talk" :-) But my number is already available through the InterNIC and other fine places. If someone is motivated enough to call me when they find this archive, so be it.

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:58 AM): I think the first mode of attack is by defining a list of qualities that describe your prime participant, then developing a hand-picked list that match. Really develop your sales pitch so that it is abundantly clear how this thing works and how it benefits

David Beroff (10/5/98 9:58 AM): (The # is similar to several other local biz's; we get a few calls asking for the local mental hospital... Hmmm...

RobFrankel (10/5/98 9:59 AM): If your first hand-picked group does well, you can use them to springboard on to your next. It really is trail and error, but educated trial and error.

Bob Garber (10/5/98 9:59 AM): I've got the error part wired!

RobFrankel (10/5/98 10:00 AM): That's okay. My number is close to a dentist and an insurance company. I'm always denying patients' dental claims...(ONE MINUTE)

RobFrankel (10/5/98 10:00 AM): Okay, folks, that's it -- my phone card has timed out! Stick around, as always. Otherwise I'll see you online!

Bob Garber (10/5/98 10:01 AM): Thanks for the advice Rob.

Ira Pasternack (10/5/98 10:01 AM): See you all next week... David, I'll call you in a bit to discuss meeting...

Louise the SoapLady (10/5/98 10:02 AM): ok, thanks Rob, see all of you in a week!

David Beroff (10/5/98 10:03 AM): ok; bye all

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