Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic October 15, 2001

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:03 AM): HI guys!

John (10/15/101 9:03 AM): howdy

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Claudine M. Jalajas (10/15/101 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:04 AM): Who's up first?

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Jacque ( (10/15/101 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Scott ( (10/15/101 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:08 AM): Is anyone else getting bumped off the server?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:08 AM): Seems to be a tad tweaky today...

Jacque ( (10/15/101 9:08 AM): I thought it was something I did...multitasking as usual (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:09 AM): Okay, anyone want to jump in first?

weber (10/15/101 9:09 AM): Rob, what do you think about using EBay to drive traffic to a site?

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:09 AM): [Good morning]

weber (10/15/101 9:10 AM): Hi James

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:10 AM): Interesting question, Weber. Both Ebay and Amazon are often over-looked as useful web tools.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:11 AM): Hi, this is my first chat/free clinic. Is there a particular topic for today? I'm sorry if this was in the email..

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:11 AM): The reason is that both of them are actually nothing more than search engines that allow people to buy what they search for (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:12 AM): Hello, Weber. I think you should use Ebay as a traffic tool.

weber (10/15/101 9:12 AM): We are thinking of trying an experiment with a new product for us.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:13 AM): In fact, I'm amazed at how many of my books sold through Amazon, even tho I never publicized the link. The reason is that people go there to find books on branding. To show you just how effective it is, listen to this: (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:13 AM): We use Amazon as a traffic builder at THE WEB NEWSROOM

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:13 AM): For ALL of 2000, The Revenge of Brand X was I amazon's top 1/10 of 1% of ALL amazon titles.

weber (10/15/101 9:14 AM): That's really interesting. Are you using their instant buy feature?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:14 AM): This was a wonderful, for-profit tool that actually expanded my user base, so I know it can do the same for you. EBay is much the same thing. There's only one aspect of EBay you may want to watch for, and that's preserving brand value.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:16 AM): At least with Amazon, the price is set. The monetary value is set. EBay suggests that your brand value is negotiable. I stress leadership as a brand value, and so I maintain it's up to you to set your value, not the market.

weber (10/15/101 9:16 AM): Since Gas Masks are in such a high demand, we sent our staff in China to find a factory that produces for the Chinese Military. We have a factory in hand, and want to drive both consumer sales, and wholesale sales to our site. (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:16 AM): I usually tell people if you are going to use an affiliate program use Amazon's. It's flexible and it's very easy to put into effect on your web site.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:16 AM): Claudine, did you have a question?

weber (10/15/101 9:17 AM): I was thinking of using EBay to do that. Or at least generate leads.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:17 AM): AZ, except that Amazon's affiliate program only uses session cookies, which mean if you don't buy during the session in which you were referred, the affiliate makes no money.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:18 AM): Weber, I don't know that I'd want to buy a gas mask from the lowest bidder......

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:18 AM): I'm sorry.. my browser seems to not be handling the chat well. I don't have a question yet, just listening for now...

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:18 AM): Okie doke. Anyone else?

John (10/15/101 9:18 AM): Weber, I am looking to promote Gas Masks to Virtumundo's email marketing list but haven't found a marketer for Gas Masks yet. Please contact me I can work with you on a CPA basis. I think it'll do great. Our list is now at 17MM opt in names.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:19 AM): ANOTHER FRANKELBIZ CONNECTION!!!!

weber (10/15/101 9:19 AM): John, you got it. I'll email you some jpgs as well. (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:19 AM): Rob, I know. But I still generate $100+ per quarter in movie soundtrack sales from the movie review section on our site

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:20 AM): John, I saw that Gator Grip gave you guys a lot of attention on the lists this past week.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:20 AM): What about driving people to your site if you have a service, not a product?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:20 AM): Claudine, I have a service. I use the products as bridges to my services. People might start with the book or tapes, and if they like those they move into the service aspect of my practice

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:21 AM): A lot depends on the type of service.... (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:21 AM): Of course it helps when you post two new movie reviews a day

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:22 AM): How about free information/etc. as a teaser for the service (as long as there's no overlap/cannibalization)

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:23 AM): Jonathan, I use free services a lot. If they have value, they really do work. For example, if you go to, it lists all the ways I work with people....and a bunch of those are free.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:23 AM): Yes, I see how you do it. (bravo) (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:23 AM): Then there's our recipe section where we post four new recipes a day and deliver a newsletter Monday-Saturday

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:23 AM): Free stuff -- as long as it isn't labor-intensive -- is a great way for people to sniff around anonymously without sales pressure.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:24 AM): I think that once people get an idea of what you're like (your brand), they move closer to either liking or disliking you, which are fundamental to their purchase decisions.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:25 AM): My article archives, this Free Clinic, FrankelBiz are all free. They give people an idea of what I do and what I'm like.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:25 AM): What I find is that most people are actually uncomfortable putting too much about themselves and their brand out there.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:26 AM): Free stuff also demonstrates your level of trust. It shows you're willing to make the first or second or even third move to get the relationship started.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:27 AM): BUT....that doesn't mean you give away the store. The art is in educating prospects as to how much they don't know.

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:27 AM): I was thinking of an interactive diagnostic tool (like a knowledge tree) to help people figure out how to solve specific business problems (by using my writing services of course!).

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:28 AM): Jonathan, as long as you don't get trapped in some "this neat tech approach is cool" thing. Most of the time, all you really need is a simple Before and After case study (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:28 AM): Then there's our recipe section where we post four new recipes a day and deliver a newsletter Monday-Saturday

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:29 AM): and I can buy your book where Rob?? ;-) all good points..

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:29 AM): You bring up a good point, though -- it's all about educating prospects so that they understand and feel good about the purchase decision.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:29 AM): Claudine -- you can click the banner below or

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:30 AM): Are other areas of the country feeling the tight squeeze on corp funds since 9/11 like here in NYC?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:30 AM): Jonathan, one more important thing: be sure that you don't gloss over "business problems" with a simple solution, or you risk losing credibility.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:31 AM): Claudine, I just wrote in FrankelTips a week or so ago that I actually believe it gets worse the farther out from NYC/DC you go.

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:31 AM): Rob - *nod*

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:31 AM): Out here on the west coast, for example, there's no actual debris to clean up. Nobody has anything but fear.

Jose ( (10/15/101 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:32 AM): I've lost a tremendous amount of biz here. How do you market to people now? There must be a different approach.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:32 AM): At least in NYC/DC, there is some progress made toward recovery. But out here, people have had nothing but fear to contend with. Much harder to clean up a frame of mind.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:33 AM): Claudine, in 1990, all I had was a local ad agency in Los Angeles, and business was hard to come by. I made the decision a year or two later to bade my business on the web (when it got practical to do so) in order to broaden my user base. It works. Now, I have few, if any clients in L.A.

weber (10/15/101 9:34 AM): It's kind of like what you said in your last e-letter about getting caught up in watching TV for the next horror.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:34 AM): well, I see your point.. but, constant memorials, funerals, now anthrax has everyone thinking that EVERYthing is frivolous

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:34 AM): So my recommendation is to work the web. It's cheap. It's effective. And the best part is that people you reach are already used to working via the web, so they don't care if you're in NYC or Timbuktu.

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:34 AM): Rob - did you find it difficult to get non-local businesses to accept the idea of working with you 'virtually'?

weber (10/15/101 9:34 AM): That is similar to gawkers on the highway

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:35 AM): No, Jonathan. Most people think I have a staff of 40 or more people working for me.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:35 AM): yes, that's a good point too. Market to other areas than NYC (it's just so easy to stay in your backyard.. hehehe)

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:35 AM): Rob, I thought you had thousands of FrankelBees working for you ;-) (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:35 AM): my affiliate buys have actually gone up since Sept 11.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:36 AM): Claudine, just turn off the TV and focus on business. As some of you know, I hawking my branding Round Up seminar in November. One guy on the FrankelBiz list wrote to me that I'm pushing it too hard.

Jose ( (10/15/101 9:36 AM): Bob, do you charge for an initial conference to see if you could be of help

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:36 AM): But I'd rather push it hard than to sit around and watch CNN report on various ways my kids could die at school.

weber (10/15/101 9:37 AM): Jonathan, we bought some labels from a FrankelBee connection in Canada even though we are in Jacksonville FL (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:37 AM): Rob, that guy will probably be out of business by the end of the year.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:37 AM): Hi Jose. Yes, I do. If you click on the "Rob Frankel" logo up in the top frame, it tells you the basic framework of how I work with you.

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:38 AM): Rob, so you're using this slowdown to focus on sales? (rather than on building the "next big thing" for when things pick up)?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:38 AM): AZ, want to hear something funny? He runs a "marketing newsletter'! Now you know the difference between marketing and sales!

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:38 AM): Claudine, you'll be AMAZED at how much business you can do on the web. And for the most part, you'll get BETTER business from good people.

Jose ( (10/15/101 9:39 AM): Thanks Bob

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:39 AM): John, I'm building out a lot. I've found good success in building publicity with PR services. I'm doing well with direct e-mail at highly-qualified CEO's.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:39 AM): Well, I guess I'm not using the web properly. I'll have to revisit.. thanks for the pep talk.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:40 AM): The Round Up was actually planned in August and re-purposed after 9/11. I figured that things would be slow, people would panic and that I could make this an affordable event for them.

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:40 AM): Rob, so you're taking advantage of the "lower noise level" in the marketplace while it's available.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:40 AM): Claudine, try just ONE POST to FrankelBiz and see what I mean.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:41 AM): John, a friend once told me to spend 15% of my time marketing my business. I found that to be way off. I spend about 90% of my time marketing.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:41 AM): I'm too worried about breaking the rules! HAHAHA... (strong catholic upbringing--don't want to screw up)

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:41 AM): But yes, John, that's definitely a part of it.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:42 AM): Anyone else while we still have a bit of time?

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:42 AM): Rule-breaking is good! (as long as you don't piss anyone off)

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:43 AM): Claudine, you don't have to break them -- just make up your own! Rule-breaking is fun -- and it feels really, really good when you do it better than the rule-followers.

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:43 AM): I'll jump in. Last week we got talking about Adventive's move from free- to pay-lists. Anyone heard whether the lists still exist?

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:43 AM): If 90% marketing.. how do you get work done?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:44 AM): Yes, John. Adventive is claiming that the strategy worked...but are allowing free subscribers to remain on in an "advertising-based" model.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:44 AM): Claudine, I have a very efficient revenue stream! (Arizona Reporter) (10/15/101 9:44 AM): I thought Adventive's move took effect this week.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:45 AM): Claudine, I'm one of those guys that would rather shoot hoops with my kids than take a three martini lunch.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:45 AM): It did, AZ. They also hired Adam Boettiger to take over their ad sales.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:46 AM): Actually, Claudine, you'd be amazed how at how much easier it is to market on the web, especially with a good mail merge program....

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:47 AM): The most labor intensive job in my organization is finding and targeting a good prospect list. After that, it's push the button and go.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:48 AM): Yes, that's the son-of-a-gun for me as well. The targets...

Jose ( (10/15/101 9:48 AM): Bob do you have any experience with the Model where the owner of the brand uses it to put its "stamp" on other products like "Underwriters Laboratory" or the Good housekeeping Seal""

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:48 AM): Couple that with some good PR services, like and you're doing a lot. (That's our FB sponsor, who runs a service that guides reporters to you for their stories).

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:49 AM): Rob, how do you segment that list? By industry? Job function? Or does everyone receive every blast?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:50 AM): Yes, Jose. That broadly falls under the licensing category. I do a lot of consulting on "branded Alliances"

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:50 AM): going to their site now.. thanks.. this is good stuff

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:50 AM): John, I go after companies in any category that are on the move. I only target CEO's or decision makers.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:51 AM): I find that if the CEO is inclined, he/she will direct me to the person he wants to meet me.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:51 AM): Claudine, all we got is good stuff!

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:52 AM): BTW, Claudine, if you decide to pursue ProfilesUnlimited, make sure you tell Tracey you want the FrankelBiz discount.....saves you about 33%.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:52 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 9:52 AM): ooohhh even nicer. ;-)

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:52 AM): Hey, NOBODY leaves Rob Frankel empty-handed.

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:52 AM): Rob, do you have a sequence of emails that new prospects receive (i.e. New leads receive message #1, one week later #2, etc, with everyone at a different point in the chain?)

Steve Thomas (10/15/101 9:53 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:53 AM): No John. I just hit the CEO with one message, one time. I may go back at a later time, but I find that CEO's generally do one of four things:

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:54 AM): 1. Say YES 2. Say NO 3. Don't respond. 4. Say Yes, but not right now.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:54 AM): Quite frankly, I only have time for the ones who say yes. We send the #4's a nice note thanking them.

Steve Thomas (10/15/101 9:55 AM): Rob, do you ever follow up with phone, or do you only send one email to CEO?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:55 AM): Just e-mail Steve. I handle these people with real respect. If they ask for a call, I call. If not, we do e-mail.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:56 AM): My job is to introduce myself, not badger them.

Steve Thomas (10/15/101 9:56 AM): How do you avoid spam when sending the email, Rob?

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:56 AM): Rob, so once someone's been added to your prospect list, they get *one* email then go dormant. Right?

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:57 AM): I have a KILLER intro letter, Steve. I've NEVER had anyone send me back a spam complaint. In fact, we've had several responses from people who complimented me on the letter and wished that more people knew how to introduce themselves.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:58 AM): For now, John, yes. That may change in six or eight months.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 9:58 AM): One quick question, Rob - I'm starting out in the copywriting field (though I have years of experience as a technical writer and editor) - do you think it's acceptable to create my own portfolio based on fictitious prospects, or to go after prospects with a small portfolio?

Jose ( (10/15/101 9:58 AM): Thanks for the chat! Interesting

Steve Thomas (10/15/101 9:59 AM): Rob, besides the quality of the letter, is the length of the letter critical?

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 9:59 AM): Thanks Rob.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 9:59 AM): John, I think it's totally appropriate to do BOTH: Show them what you've done for real and then show them what you've proposed to help others.

Claudine M. Jalajas ( (10/15/101 10:00 AM): this was good.. thanks a bunch :-)

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 10:00 AM): thanks indeed, Rob.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 10:00 AM): Steve, I find that as long as it doesn't sell and simply informs, you'll do fine. Mine happens to be longer than I'm usually used to, but that's because I started out as a copywriter, so I'm used to making my point in 29 seconds.

RobFrankel ( (10/15/101 10:01 AM): Okay, you guys, it's off to work we go! Have a great week! I'll see you online!

Jonathan Cohen ( (10/15/101 10:01 AM): bye all

Steve Thomas (10/15/101 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob.

John Charlesworth ( (10/15/101 10:01 AM): See ya!

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