Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic October 16, 2000

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:01 AM): Gooood morning!

Glenda (10/16/100 9:01 AM): Hello Rob

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:02 AM): Shana Tova

Glenda (10/16/100 9:02 AM): Hello Arik

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:02 AM): Right back atcha, dialing in from Israel?

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:03 AM): Yes

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:03 AM): Well, THAT ought to show everyone just how global we are! Anyone want to jump in and begin? (10/16/100 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:07 AM): Christina? Are you new here? Would you like to jump in or bring up anything at all?

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:07 AM): We like to let the newer folks go first....

Glenda (10/16/100 9:07 AM): Hi Steve (10/16/100 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

Dave (10/16/100 9:08 AM): How about a discussion about Ad Networks

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:08 AM): Go for it, Dave.... (10/16/100 9:08 AM): Hi, Glenda

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:09 AM): How are they treating you these days?

Glenda (10/16/100 9:09 AM): Rob, do you have a system for creating taglines? I sometimes struggle with those

Christina (10/16/100 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Dave (10/16/100 9:10 AM): BAD

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:10 AM): Glenda, I have very little trouble writing taglines, because I write them LAST. The FIRST thing I do is outline the brand strategy. Only when I have that nailed do I even begin to wrestle with a tag.

Dave (10/16/100 9:10 AM): they are serving lost of CPCs

erik ( (10/16/100 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Morning everyone (10/16/100 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Dave (10/16/100 9:11 AM): The percentage of paid ads of any type are about 40% of my inventory.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:11 AM): Most DIY'ers want to jump straight to the Clever stuff, but it's the really boring, accurate strategies that you build on. Try writing out the strategy is as boring a sentence as you can. TEHN make it clever.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:11 AM): Dave, how much can you expect to make with an Ad Network? In a month, I mean...

Glenda (10/16/100 9:12 AM): I'll try that Rob...thanks

Dave (10/16/100 9:12 AM): I have 5,000,000 page impressions a month and they don't give any service. I am invisible

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:12 AM): Okay, but how much do you think would be reasonable for you to earn per month from the site?

Dave (10/16/100 9:12 AM): I feel I should make a $3.00 average CPM.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:13 AM): And how much are you making in REALITY?

Dave (10/16/100 9:13 AM): I would like to make $15.000

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:14 AM): Yeah, but how much ARE you making? Come on, now, fess up....

Dave (10/16/100 9:14 AM): I have been bringing in about $6.000 until lately. Now I am down to $4,000

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:14 AM): I'm working my way to the idiocy of selling ads on a network, or CPC in general.....

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:15 AM): Okay, Dave, tighten you seatbelt:

Dave (10/16/100 9:15 AM): COC on a network is stealing

Dave (10/16/100 9:16 AM): CPC

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:16 AM): YOU have 5,000,000 impressions a month and bring in say $5,000 a month. I have a couple of thousand people on FrankelBiz and sell one ad for $1000 a week on a flat rate.....Um, which has the better model?

Dave (10/16/100 9:17 AM): I have teenagers

Dave (10/16/100 9:17 AM): 80% female, 80% under 25

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:17 AM): You and I have had this conversation before. you're MUCH better off abandoning the ad network model. It doesn't work. And advertisers are getting smarter, even though the ad network people aren't. There's a reason why DoubleClick stock is in the dumper. (10/16/100 9:17 AM): I am trying to build a market for only one product, a CD that helps people sleep. I am trying to do this in addition to running my psychoanalytic practice, so I can't do it full time and have limited marketing funds. My question is: how do I figure out the

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:18 AM): Jackie, you're next...hold on a sec.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:19 AM): Dave, you would be SO much better off targeting your ad efforts to brand-compatible sponsors and selling a flat rate.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:19 AM): Plus, you get paid much faster -- FrankelBiz sponsors pay in advance...I don't have to wait 90 days. (10/16/100 9:19 AM): to link with other sites when complementary sites either don't link with others or they also sell product and wouldn't want to send people to mine?

Glenda (10/16/100 9:20 AM): I couldn't agree with you more Rob...the ROI on ad networks for the client is not good at all....sponsorship makes more sense

Dave (10/16/100 9:20 AM): I have tried to sell direct advertising and sponsorships for tow years and have netted almost zero. I have a stack of folders for different advertisers that is almost a foot high and have netted almost zero

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:20 AM): Okay, Jackie, the answer to your question is that linking with other sites won't do much for you...even if you have an affiliate program. I have an affiliate program for my book and it brings in very little, even though I have over 100 affiliates.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:21 AM): Dave, you're doing it wrong. You MUST get a pro in there to help you. Your site is just waiting to make money.

Dave (10/16/100 9:21 AM): How do you get a sponsorship?

Dave (10/16/100 9:21 AM): I know (10/16/100 9:22 AM): Then, in addition to search engine submissions, and submitting articles to e-zines, how does a small company get users to the site so sales can be made? I feel like a real neophyte. (10/16/100 9:22 AM): Dave, what other businesses have a similar demographic as yours? (80% female, 80% under 25)?

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:22 AM): Jackie, let me suggest that in addition to what you're doing online, you sign up for the Amazon advantage program. It is fantastic. You can put your CD's on consignment and Amazon will order them as they need them. The big advantage there is that people who search for your stuff -- or your competitors' -- will also see yours.

Christina (10/16/100 9:23 AM): isn't another benefit of affiliate programs driving traffic to your site and raising exposure to your product and/or brand?

Dave (10/16/100 9:23 AM): Bottom line... I can't drop the network ... I must wean away from it. When I get the first sponsor I will start the process. I have never got the first sponsor. (10/16/100 9:23 AM): We are all seeing lots of marketing efforts aimed at that demographic; they really do have discretionary income.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:23 AM): Jackie -- want proof? I NEVER publicize that my book is available on Amazon -- and it still sells twice the books that my site does. Which means it brings in new people into my brand's sphere of influence.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:24 AM): I wish it were, Christina, but in all honesty, the affiliate problem is that most affiliates think they need only to slap on a link to their site to make money. What they really need to do is hustle, by sending their links to their communities. most don't. (10/16/100 9:24 AM): I'm a distributor for this product (exclusive on the internet) but the guy who owns it is on Amazon with it. Any other ideas?

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:25 AM): Dave, you'll need to bite the bullet and invest in pro help. If my little list can attract sponsors that pay in advance, your site -- with the properly designed programs -- should be able to womp on them.

erik ( (10/16/100 9:26 AM): Rob, you mentioned in your book that is not a big time brand. Can you give us an example of one or more B2C websites that are big time brands and why?

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:26 AM): Jackie, have you uploaded an MP3 excerpt? I have a client that writes, records and sells his own New Age music. He does great!

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:27 AM): Erik, I also wrote that there weren't any real big time brands online, but there were a few who were great offline brands that managed to port their brand to online. I still think FEDEX does that well. (10/16/100 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

No, but it's on the list to do. Maybe I should move it up on the list. (10/16/100 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:28 AM): Jackie, have you used FaveMail? Their technology lets you send mail through their server, which attaches a graphic (for free) that can actually let people hear your music by clicking on the e-mail graphic!

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:29 AM): Erik, I also think that EBay has the beginnings of a Big Time brand, but they have no clue as to how to leverage it.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:30 AM): EBay is sitting on a huge culture base.

erik ( (10/16/100 9:30 AM): Why EBay?

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:31 AM): If you get into EBay more than ankle deep, you discover a whole culture and subcultures of behavior and protocols. In essence, the user of EBay are creating that culture. EBay is losing out because they take no leadership of that culture.

erik ( (10/16/100 9:34 AM): Other examples?

No, but it's on the list to do. Maybe I should move it up on the list. (10/16/100 9:34 AM): I'll check out FaveMail. Sounds good. Could I attach it to my signature when I send an article for submission? Speaking of submitting articles, has anyone used a service that writes the article and submits it, too? (Like Dr. Nunley.)

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:34 AM): Jackie, to get back to your issue, you need to widen your target a bit, perhaps. Maybe you need to move into spaces of stress reduction, psychology content, art and those places here stress reduction is part of their discipline, not necessarily the main focus. These partners would likely be open to ancillary profit centers.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:35 AM): Jackie, you send your mail through the FaveMail server. Go to and check it out. Everything should be there. (10/16/100 9:36 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:37 AM): The FaveMail thing is totally transparent. Your sig is part of your own mail.

Rob Frankel (10/16/100 9:38 AM): Erik, there aren't many original online brands that come to mind that are doing it well. That's why I wrote the book! (10/16/100 9:40 AM): Thanks for the FaveMail info. One last question: Would you mind expanding on what you mean by ancillary profit centers and how I would implement? Thanks in advance, this has been very helpful.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:40 AM): Entered the room.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:40 AM):

erik ( (10/16/100 9:40 AM): So, are you saying that most B2C business models can be improved by evolving into commerce enablers like EBay rather than trying to sell from top down?

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:40 AM): Oops, the server dropped me...

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:41 AM): No, not at all, Erik. What I'm saying is that typically, these businesses are too self-involved to understand how to leverage their brands. They forget that over half of the business is on the OTHER side of the screen.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:42 AM): The trick to getting and maintaining customer loyalty (turning the into evangelists) is by helping users employ your stuff in their everyday lives and make those lives easier. When you make heroes out of people, they reward you with loyalty.

Thawk (10/16/100 9:43 AM): Entered the room.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:43 AM): How do you leverage your brand?

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:43 AM): Every single client I have has had this issue, among others....

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:44 AM): Arik, you mean me, personally?

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:44 AM): Yes

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:45 AM): Well, I personally leverage my brand with FrankelBiz. The list helps other people put good business deals together. It brings like-minded people together. It makes their lives easier and their business run better.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:46 AM): Because we have strict FAQ's, it also promotes my brand's values. I get a fair amount of publicity -- and increasingly, revenue -- for that. So everyone wins.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:47 AM): Another example is this chat. I don't charge anyone for being here. But hopefully, anyone who asks stuff leaves with an answer that helps them. If they leave with an impression that I'm for real and a pro, that's good for me, too.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:48 AM): I maintain that EVERY business has scores of possibilities in their own businesses that can be leveraged in the same way. But they don't have the time to look for them or develop them.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:49 AM): So, how can ExactResponse leverage it's brand?

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:49 AM): Dave, if you're listening, here's how this applies to you: Do you guys know that in the first 24 hours I offered it, over 1400 people downloaded my little e-book? Yikes! THAT'S the kind of response that advertisers want to hear. (10/16/100 9:49 AM): Rob--Would you mind expanding on what you mean by ancillary profit centers?

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:49 AM): Arik, I don't know enough about your business model to advise you on your specific business....

erik ( (10/16/100 9:50 AM): But, how do you create the same effect when you are selling a product rather than a service? I know you are probably selling more books, but what if you are trying to sell a lot of different products that may not have anything to do with each other? Your ebook was great by the way!

Rob, how long was your site up and running before you made that offer? (10/16/100 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:50 AM): Okay. It's a search engine.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:51 AM): Sure, Jackie: Chances are the when you approach other sites (like a self-published psychology site), they're very self-focused. But if you tell them you can turnkey another product for them on THEIR site at NO COST to them, they just might listen. Now, instead of just selling books, they're selling books and CD's, which makes them look bigger -- and makes them more money that they never would have thought about.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

erik ( (10/16/100 9:52 AM): You could probably sell your little ebooks online, chapter by chapter. I would buy them...

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:53 AM): Thanks Erik...but there's really no difference between a service and a products. At the very least, there are always NEW WAYS to USE the product. And that's valuable information. If your product can make someone's life easier, that's great...but how can you be sure they KNOW all the ways that can happen? When you tell people those ways, they are very grateful.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:55 AM): Arik, you have a lot of competition. You're going to have to really structure your operations differently and create programs that motivate users.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:55 AM): I know that doesn't answer your question, but it's a huge issue that I wouldn't do justice to address in a quick chat.

Arik Schenkler - (10/16/100 9:56 AM): Okay. Thanks (10/16/100 9:56 AM): Rob-- sounds good. Do they send me the orders, I ship, and pay them a %? Where could I go after this chat session is over to find out more about doing this? thanks.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:56 AM): The thing I hope everyone realizes is that motivating and maintaining the people with whom you interact is really important. These are the people that become your evangelists. (10/16/100 9:57 AM): We are all seeing lots of marketing efforts aimed at that demographic; they really do have discretionary income.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:58 AM): Yes, Jackie, I would set up an operation where they can take the order and send you the money/information so that you can ship it from your place. Make sure you send Both the customer and the vendor confirmations as soon as it gets shipped.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:58 AM): Jackie, you should join FrankelBiz....lots of great people. My wife met a member and is now going into business as a result (10/16/100 9:59 AM): oops. I sent that last message about 30 minutes ago... pertained to Dave's demographics.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES) (10/16/100 9:59 AM): What is the going % to pay the other site? (10/16/100 9:59 AM): I have joined but am just beginning to get active.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 10:00 AM): Depends on your margin structure, Jackie, but make it really generous! Motivate people to participate. Don't look at these sales for profit as much as for spreading the word for you. Remember, every order sends you a buyer's data, so that you can sell them directly next time out.

RobFrankel ( (10/16/100 10:01 AM): Okay, folks, good session today! I gotta run. but you can hang around as long as you wish....see you online! (10/16/100 10:01 AM): Thanks a lot!

erik ( (10/16/100 10:01 AM): Rob, thanks for your input. My Mondays have changed for the better... (10/16/100 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob, et al. I learned a lot.

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