Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic October 18, 1999

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:50 AM): Does anyone here use HTML based newsletters?

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:50 AM): send one I mean?

Terri ( (10/18/99 8:50 AM): Entered the room.

Terri ( (10/18/99 8:51 AM): hi Ben! hi Guy! hi everyone :)

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:51 AM): Hi Terri

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 8:52 AM): Hello there

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 8:52 AM): I don't understand your question Guy?

Terri ( (10/18/99 8:53 AM): I don't, Guy - hear too much controversy about it

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:53 AM): What I mean is the listserv I have now is thru, I want to deliver my newsletter in HTML format for those that would opt to receive it that way.

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 8:54 AM): Is your problem with the server or are you just asking advice about whether or not to switch to an HTML format?

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:55 AM): Finding a server, the HTML format would be an option for readers

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 8:56 AM): Sorry that part I can't help with.

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:56 AM): Actually I am likely looking for a script, since I already have many servers.

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 8:57 AM): Terri, you said you don't do it, but could you if you wanted to.

Terri ( (10/18/99 8:58 AM): Sure I could, Guy - I think eGroups will do it if you write the newsletter in HTML format - not positive though

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:00 AM): Oh, I will try that, wasn't sure it would send

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:01 AM): Greetings! Did someone mention HTML newsletters?

Terri ( (10/18/99 9:01 AM): Good morning, Rob!

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:01 AM): I was looking for a script to do both from one send,

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:02 AM): I can tell you, guy, that the subject comes up every once in a while on other lists, and almost everyone recommends staying away from them.

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:02 AM): I am actually going to send coupons

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:03 AM): Hey gang!

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:04 AM): Why not just send a text link? Unless you can be sure that your HTML arrives clear and intact.

Terri ( (10/18/99 9:04 AM): Hi Andy!

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:05 AM): Text link is fine, ok

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:06 AM): Here's an off subject question... any ideas where I can find stock sound effects in WAV format out there on the web? I need a crack of the bat followed by cheers or something like that.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:06 AM): Besides, Guy, lots of people object to heavy downloads and some services like AOL won't even deliver e-mail over 20K

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:06 AM): I constantly have to monitor the "invalid" addresses on my list, because the DIGEST subscribers are often kicked out for that reason.

Glenda (10/18/99 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Terri ( (10/18/99 9:07 AM): Andy, you might try a search for .wav and sports. Hi Glenda!

Glenda (10/18/99 9:08 AM): Hi Terri

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:08 AM): Andy, have you considered sampling from the Elektra asylum library? It's on CD, which means you can grab it as an AIFF file and convert it.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:09 AM): It may not be the most convenient, but it is certainly the most reliable.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:09 AM): Sounds like something that's outside of my budget (i.e. free)

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:10 AM): And getting the software for conversion of AIFF to WAV is usually a download of freeware at someplace like CNET, or

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:10 AM): No, Andy, it isn't. On a Mac, it's ridiculously simple. On Windows, I assume it's not much harder.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:10 AM): I'm not familiar with Elektra asylum library. Where do I find that?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:11 AM): Just about any record store. It's one of the oldest sound libraries out'll recognize all sorts of sounds you've heard on radio spots, like door slams, bodies falling down stairs, jets flying by...

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:12 AM): I'll look for it... is there nothing you do not know Mr. Frankel!

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:13 AM): I don't know how to make $10 million a year...or how to play guitar. BTW, a simple search at CDNOW or something like that should do the trick.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:14 AM): Is Amy still here?

Clayton Turnbow( (10/18/99 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (10/18/99 9:16 AM): I'm here...just lurking to see what this is all about. I just happened to stumble across this.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:16 AM): Well, Amy, don't be shy about jumping in with the rest of us...are you doing any business on the web -- or thinking about it?

Clayton Turnbow( (10/18/99 9:16 AM): good morning all!

Terri ( (10/18/99 9:17 AM): hey Clayton? how goes the biz?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:17 AM): ...and feel free to plug your own business...that's what we all do here. The purpose of this group is to build your business (like the FrankelBiz list).

Liz Smith ( (10/18/99 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:18 AM): hello Clayton

Amy (10/18/99 9:18 AM): I just graduate from college and got a job in Internet Marketing and Promotions, so I'm trying to find any resources that I can to help

Clayton Turnbow( (10/18/99 9:18 AM): Fine,Terri..Thanks for asking

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:18 AM): excuse me, be back in a minute.

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:18 AM): You are in the right place, Amy

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:19 AM): Excellent, Amy. Who are you working for? You'll find that the people on the FrankelBiz list are the most responsive, ethical people to help build your business (or those of your clients)

Amy (10/18/99 9:19 AM): Domain-It

Glenda (10/18/99 9:20 AM): I have a question Rob and everyone...when sales staff is limited what's the best way to get the word out locally about a product or service, sales letter or brochure? Any recommendations?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:21 AM): Glenda, it all depends what you mean by "best way". Do you mean most cost-efficient or most effective?

Glenda (10/18/99 9:21 AM): Most effective

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:21 AM): (Amy, every Wednesday, we post Domainia Digest, where people get to buy and sell domain names)

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:22 AM): Glenda, are we talking product or service? And what kind?

Amy (10/18/99 9:22 AM): Where can I find that?

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:23 AM): Amy, it gets delivered when you subscribe to FrankelBiz. The archives are at

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:23 AM): hi

Glenda (10/18/99 9:24 AM): Well Rob, I'm talking specifically about selling detailed listings for my City Guide (the listings are actually websites, for example restaurants would have menus, services, coupons offers, etc. included in a website that is hosted as a detailed listing in our Guide)

Amy (10/18/99 9:24 AM): Thanks! I'll check it out.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:24 AM): Is the purpose of the brochure/letter to get non-liners to advertise online with you?

Andy TeBockhorst ( (10/18/99 9:25 AM): Hey Dave

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:25 AM): hi. Hi Rob

Glenda (10/18/99 9:25 AM): The purpose of this particular brochure would be get local businesses to purchase a website listing that we build and promote on our guide

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:26 AM): It's been a long time

Glenda (10/18/99 9:26 AM): It's advertising but not the typical banner

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:26 AM): hi.rob and all

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:26 AM): Hi Dave! Glenda, are these prospects currently online or do they NOT have a website?

Glenda (10/18/99 9:27 AM): Some will be currently online, but the prime target are those who aren't

GuyRCook - (10/18/99 9:29 AM): Ackk!!! Have to leave have a great week. Time to don my cape and do some rescuing in person. Bye.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:29 AM): Okay, Glenda, if that's the case, your best bet is probably a sales letter. Here's why: If they're not online, they are going to require a LOT of education. You have to approach them on a business level, not a web approach.

Glenda (10/18/99 9:30 AM): Ok, Rob...that sounds good. I've already noticed with those we've approached so far in person that a lot of education is needed

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:30 AM): For those not sophisticated in this area, graphics do no good. They don't know what they're looking at. Realize that most will be very suspicious yet curious.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:31 AM): But if you write to them explaining how you will increase their business and that you are expert at introducing them to the web, they will likely be more open to you.

Liz smith ( (10/18/99 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:32 AM): The more you personalize those letters, the better you'll do. Small businesses are very fearful and appreciate a trusting relationship.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:32 AM): You won't need the graphics, because they won't appreciate what they're communicating, anyway.

Glenda (10/18/99 9:32 AM): The sales letter will be more cost-effective as well...thanks Rob

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:33 AM): Yes, Glenda....but the most important part of the sales letter will be....the follow up call!

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:33 AM): So don't send out more than you're able to follow up on.

Glenda (10/18/99 9:34 AM): I understand Rob...thanks again

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:34 AM): Finally, remember that your first sales are the most important. Those are the ones you'll be using for references later.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:34 AM): Hi Liz...what's going on?

Liz smith ( (10/18/99 9:34 AM): Hi Rob, Glenda, I am working on a similar project to Gland's.

Liz smith ( (10/18/99 9:36 AM): We are recruiting artisans for and sponsors... also bands, musicians, clubs for

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:37 AM): You mean that before I travel to New York, I can check out your site for what to do and where?

you bet! we are gearing our listings to venues with live entertainment (10/18/99 9:38 AM): Entered the room.

you bet! we are gearing our listings to venues with live entertainment (10/18/99 9:39 AM): Don't come too soon. We just launched the site on Fri

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:39 AM): Uh oh Liz, sign off and log on again. The server trapped you.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:39 AM): interesting name

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:40 AM): BTW, if you are serious about marketing online, think about joining me, john Audette, Allan gardyne and Thom Reece in Hawaii in January for E-commerce 2000.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:41 AM): Rob, if you have time I have a question about opt-in e-mail lists

Liz smith (10/18/99 9:41 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:42 AM): Go for it Dave.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:42 AM): I have a opt-in e-mail list with 10,000 subscribers

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:42 AM): BTW E-Commerce 2000 details at:

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:43 AM): the demographics are 80% female, 80% under 25

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:43 AM): Ten thousand members? How did you get all those???

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:44 AM): And what is the purpose of the list?

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:44 AM): my question is how much does text advertising go for.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:44 AM): they sign up on my site and fill out a form

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:45 AM): I sent them a poem every so often. target once a week

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:45 AM): What are they receiving on the list, Dave?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:46 AM): Well, as you know, I don't believe in selling based on CPM. I sell sponsorships on FrankelBiz based on ROI

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:46 AM): I am starting a second list that will deliver love stories

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:46 AM): So I sell in terms of weeks or months for a flat fee.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:47 AM): OK, ROI... how would I take advantage of the mailings

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:47 AM): What should I charge?

Glenda (10/18/99 9:48 AM): Here's a source for checking going rates, I think they also list newsletters:

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:48 AM): Are there special brokers to deal with?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:49 AM): Dave, brokers -- as you have found previously -- are a waste of time. You have to sell for what the market will bear. But it all revolves around what you can do for the sponsor.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:50 AM): I can tell my sponsors that my list generates anywhere from 10% to 25% easily. I know the numbers and how they work, so I can reasonably estimate their ROI

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:50 AM): What I can tell you is that sending out the list weekly will kill you rates.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:51 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:51 AM): I finally sold to an advertiser and the CTR was bad.. Mostly because his ads were terrible. I even made some ads for him and he wouldn't run them

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:52 AM): Sponsors want frequency as well as reach.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:53 AM): you say not to send it once a week and then you say they want frequency... do you mean more than once a week?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:53 AM): FrankelBiz, for example, generates a minimum of 600,000 impressions per month (and that doesn't include pass alongs). That's what advertisers want to see.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:54 AM): I publish daily, almost by the hour. That's what sponsors want...more impressions, more of the time.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:55 AM): Do you mean your web site? LovePoetry is approaching 3,000,000 a month

Dave, I just forwarded your info along to one of my associates. Do you think your 10,000 members would be interested in some free long distance? (10/18/99 9:55 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:55 AM): No, Dave, I mean the recipients of FrankelBiz newsletter (an opt-in list, if you think about it)

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:56 AM): ah

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:56 AM): Uh oh, who just got trapped by the server? Log off and log on again....

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

Benjamin Fitts ( (10/18/99 9:56 AM): Oops

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:56 AM): Dave, Joke of the day sends out daily...they have zillions of members.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:57 AM): I don't want to overload my list people and I thought once a week was about right

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:58 AM): You may not overload your members, but you won't get any sponsors, either. Unless you give the stuff away.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:58 AM): Poems are like divinity candy.... very rich

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

RobFrankel (10/18/99 9:59 AM): Dave, once a week is four times a month to an advertiser. Would You buy into that if you were an advertiser?

Terri ( (10/18/99 9:59 AM): Dave, are you targeting the advertisers who would benefit most from your target market? I would think with an audience of females under 25, an advertiser selling fashion, makeup, concert tickets, etc. would do really well.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 9:59 AM): the question still remains.... how do I get sponsors and how much do I charge?

RobFrankel (10/18/99 10:00 AM): Dave, it still remains that YOU have to approach the brand-compatible advertisers with a deal that makes THEM money, not just you. Do a test for FREE with one of them to establish what your response rates are.

Dave (LovePoetry) (10/18/99 10:00 AM): I have tried for the last year with banner advertising and have had no success

Glenda (10/18/99 10:00 AM): Joke a Day was charging $3 CPM for 70,000

RobFrankel (10/18/99 10:00 AM): That way, you'll have data to base your next sponsor pitch on.

RobFrankel (10/18/99 10:00 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online!

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