Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic October 29, 2001

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

Patrick Kilhoffer (10/29/2001 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 8:57 AM): Entered the room.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 8:58 AM): Good morning everyone!

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 8:58 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 8:58 AM): Yes, I dig baseball. Unfortunately, I can't get the time to plant myself in front of a TV and watch it.....

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 8:58 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): How's everyone doing today? Who's up first?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): Yeah, I hear that, Rob! My daughter does though - she gives me updates <grin>

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): <plug>Sounds like you need a VA, Rob </plug>

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): A VA to watch baseball for me?

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 8:59 AM): Any marketing tips for surviving a techno disaster like a hosting failure?

Jonathan Cohen (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (10/29/2001 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan Cohen (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (10/29/2001 9:00 AM): Good morning all.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:00 AM): TBrant, how bad is the hosting failure?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:00 AM): Well - I am wondering if anyone does "free this or that " for referrals - how it has worked for them

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 9:00 AM): All my domains went down this morning and everyone is supposedly working to restore them.

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Del (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): Active clients can't reach me.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): TBRant, this is the reason why you want a branded community....when you have everyone's e-mail addresses, you can blast out a message warning them of the disaster.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:01 AM): No, a VA to give you the time to watch baseball, Rob ;-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:02 AM): This softens the blow of delayed services and usually fosters more consideration and less anger from your customers

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:02 AM): TBrant, you DO have alternative e-mail sources, don't you?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:02 AM): TBrant - do you have your client's contact info on another server/computer - do you have another email you can use?

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 9:03 AM): I suppose I can even now send out a message from some free address on yahoo or somewhere.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:03 AM): Great commentary in FrankelTips today Rob.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:04 AM): How many clients are we talking about, TBrant? 5? 500?

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:04 AM): You have any more thoughts about your prime directive?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:04 AM): TBrant, I pay AOL $4.95 a month for an emergency access. This way, I don't have to use a yahoo account.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:04 AM): Thanks, Shai....

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:05 AM): Anyway, the point is that you want to let them know about the outage BEFORE they get pissed off about it. Being pro-active is a good habit.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:05 AM): Jodie, what do you mean by "free this or that " for referrals?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:06 AM): Rob, I mean that, with my subscription, I am thinking about giving one free month for every referral

THE WEB NEWSROOM (azreporter.com) (10/29/2001 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:06 AM): I would just like to know other's experiences, words of wisdom... pitfalls...

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:07 AM): Jodie, my best luck on referrals comes from people with the same customers as mine. I've never heard of anyone really doing well "bribing" for referrals. You get a lot, but they aren't "good" referrals.

tbrant@gryphynmedia.com (10/29/2001 9:07 AM): 50.. I have already notified the alt moderators of my lists. I do have AOL (which looks as bad as free).. and another address from my ISP that I never use... hm. Mid-crisis, I just want to pound my desk and scream... I guess I better sending as much altmail as I can, instead. Thanks.. later... I am off to put out fires.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:07 AM): Jodie, I find that if you build your branded community properly, you never have to pay your users to do anything -- they should be evangelizing for free because they love your brand.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:08 AM): I didn't really see it as 'paying' them - rather thanking them for their time

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:08 AM): For example, I'm sure that NOBODY would recommend FrankelTips to anyone else for an extra month. They should refer it because they think it's a really good product. In fact, that's how FrankelBiz has grown.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:09 AM): Jodie, I think it's a mistake to give away your product as a "thank you". Saying thank you is great, but not at the expense of de-valuing your product.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:09 AM): Thank you's are always welcome. The question is are you telling them up front to encourage referrals or are you rewarding them?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:10 AM): Oh, I'm planning on Score being so wonderful that guys will be shouting it from the rooftops... ;-) just thought it would be an extra 'perk'. I am tossing around telling them up front, but I can see how that could look. I guess if I do it, it would need to be 'after the fact' to really be a 'thank you'

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:10 AM): Yeah, I think Patrick is right. For every sale of my book or tapes, I send a personal e-mail to the buyer. True, it mentions the other stuff I have for sale, but it is a personal thanks. I doubt many other authors or consultants do that.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:11 AM): I wouldn't give it away afterward Jodie.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:11 AM): Jodie, I would sooner do a deal where one of your sponsors sends along a discount coupon for one of their products. That way, you look like a hero to both the user and the sponsor.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:12 AM): And your value stays intact.

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:12 AM): Hmmm - lot's of food for thought - Rob - the comment about devaluing is very valid. - and the 'coupon' idea is great - wow - so much to absorb on a cloudy Monday ;-) Sounds great - thanks - I have much better clarity now

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:13 AM): newbie here, do we just jump in with question?

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:13 AM): That's what makes you the expert Rob... Creative thinking on how to get others to pay attention to your offering

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com - Professional Web Tracking) (10/29/2001 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): I thought it was just me...but this time change + stress is really clouding everyone!

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): *bows in deference...*

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): Yeah, Alanna -- you're up!

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): have large web community, have done very well in past on banners alone. never received money from visitors/members, only advertisers. struggling now to cover costs. what advice would you give for starts?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): No bowing, Jodie, just send checks payable to "CASH"......

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:14 AM): (only product we have is a poetry book we edited)

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): ;-)

Merle (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Seriously Rob. Looks we we're a bunch of flies on the wall today

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): have 3 large mailing lists (20k plus) also

Steven (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Are you targeting you advertisers as tightly as possible to maximize what they are willing to pay?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Alanna, what kind of community? Why are they visiting you?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): Alanna, as I began to tout last year, the name of the game on the web this year is "monetization" -- going from free to fee. In fact, it's become a sub-specialty of mine.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:15 AM): they post their poems, stories, etc.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:16 AM): I've never held advertising to be a solid revenue model....it's icing on the cake.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:16 AM): Alanna, do you own the URL?

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:16 AM): I did do one smart thing this year... narrowed focus to writers and readers, not lumping in romantic content too

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:16 AM): I own about 70 domains LOL

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): yes, I do

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): Alanna, I have a hard time telling exactly what your site is -- a poetry site? "connecting readers and writers" doesn't mean much to me.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): Alanna, what's the profile of your mailing lists?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): What about offering a service sort of like Poetry.com - but without the "you are going to be published!" hoopla - offer them the opportunity to print their works on mugs, plaques, t-shirts etc

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): it's federally trademarked as well.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): Do you own the site?

Jonathan Cohen (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (10/29/2001 9:17 AM): (oops, must go, call coming up - have a great week)

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:18 AM): yes, I own it. I went thru tremendous redo in Sept. so not all the pages are back up, including the large media credits, and bio, etc.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:18 AM): I am considering offering ebook creation services for them and storing them

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:19 AM): Okay, from where I sit, you have tremendous opportunity to monetize this site and the sooner you do, the better. The crucial element is going to be -- what else -- branded community. It's has to be more than just a Member Log In" and personalized web pages.

Joel Shellman (iKestrel.com) (10/29/2001 9:19 AM): Entered the room.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:19 AM): Alanna, my first impression was to offer other products...

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:19 AM): yes and just storing their content for free eh? lol

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:20 AM): What people don't realize is that once you build a BRANDED community, all kinds of revenue opportunities spring up. But first you have to build it on a strong brand and its leaders

Del (10/29/2001 9:20 AM): Entered the room.

Del (10/29/2001 9:20 AM): Joe: Dunno what you have on your site, but each time I try to log onto your page, it crashes IE (Mac 5 ed).

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:21 AM): Maybe you could tie in with ecrush.com, and help folks send poetry to their crush....(might be a younger audience than you currently have, though)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:21 AM): Del, I'm on IE% Mac and it loaded fine...

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:21 AM): my site is one of biggest of its types . not sure how you can tell you are branded community?

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:21 AM): Ooooh - and what if someone *else* sees the work, wants it on something... then the author gets a 'royalty' from it's purchase... and the credit

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:22 AM): Alanna, when the members send in checks, you know you're on to something!

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:22 AM): ..and then the joy of knowing someone liked their work...

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:22 AM): ah, but what would they pay for? affiliate products have never done well on my site

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:22 AM): They would pay to have JR's poem put on a mug for grandma

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:22 AM): Rob: what do you think are the best ways to promote yourself if you're working with a budget of less than $3000 over 6 months?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:23 AM): Del, as of 5 minutes ago, the site was working....don't know why yours isn't working

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:23 AM): Alanna, affiliate stuff doesn't do well in 99% of the cases. You have to sell high ticket items to make any money. A branded community is one where you build your products to leverage your members' self-interests along with your brand.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:24 AM): like for example, offering teleclasses to teach them poetry ?

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:24 AM): How about sending printed postcards of the poetry (for pay) or e-postcards (for free)?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:24 AM): Alanna, I can do this offline with you, because it would get very specific....have you got my book or tapes (no plug, just asking)?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:24 AM): Shai, what business are you in?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:24 AM): Alanna, how about a subscription based service, and some high end services, like story writing seminars with award winning writers

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:25 AM): not yet, someone recommended you. I've taken enough time, I'll bow to others and continue to visit weekly

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:25 AM): Marketing and Corporate Communications: Web Design, Print and Multimedia

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:25 AM): Alanna, I built a nice, multi-tiered structure for several businesses that generate revenue quite nicely.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:26 AM): great, I'll follow up with you then

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:26 AM): We design our stuff in house

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:26 AM): Shai How many past customers do you have?

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:26 AM): (Joe, thanks for idea)

michael@tapinternet.com (10/29/2001 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): We have about 90 past customers from around the world- mostly out of the US

Steve Thomas (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Alanna, just for the record, I think you're totally ready for it. You obviously have a great foundation on which to build.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Shai, I'm having a lot of success with two tactics: (A) Publicity and (B) E-Mail cold calls.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Rob...I have developed a referral system, turnkey for salons and day spas...it works incredibly well...any ideas for creating up front acceptance?

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Alanna, come up with a nice subscription based service and I'll test it to 100,000 opt-in emails on our database for free to test it to see if it can make to our entire list of 17MM on a CPA basis.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Shai, What is your ticket size? What do you charge?

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): thank you! I'll email you bio/background in email to give you details

Jodie (ScoreBrowniePoints.com (10/29/2001 9:27 AM): Duty calls - thank you everyone for the insight!

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:28 AM): (We are in La belle ville de Montreal)- I totally agree with you on e-mail cold calls and have been reading up on your approach

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:28 AM): I find that if you subscribe to service like http://www.ProfilesUnlimited.com, the reporters really do come to you for information and you get into their stories quicker and less expensively than with a PR firm.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:28 AM): thanks John

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (10/29/2001 9:29 AM): You're welcome Alanna (jmccumber@virtumundo.com)

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:29 AM): e-mail cold calls is actually how we generated most of our business. But we stopped it, thinking it was too much like spamming.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:29 AM): But now we're getting back on the bandwagon

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:29 AM): But $500 a month is not a lot of money. If I had to spend it, I would probably spend it on a VA to harvest as many target businesses for you to contact and then hit them with a killer e-mail.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:30 AM): Certainly seeing that if you do it properly it doesn't hurt your brand at all. In fact quite the opposite

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:30 AM): Shai, we talked a lot about this last week -- it all depends on whom you target and the letter you send.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:30 AM): VA?

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:30 AM): Rob is advising the use of spam, unfortunately! This was discussed in this forum recently, and more than one person believed that Rob uses spam to market his business. That, of course, is his affair. Still, one should be aware of the unpleasant nature of this course of action.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:31 AM): I know. We don't need to go back down that road...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:31 AM): Frederick, you're so wrong that it hurts.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:31 AM): VA? What's that?

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:31 AM): Rob's using UCE, unsolicited commercial email. The original definition of "spam" includes the idea of bulk email. Rob sends personalized emails to a single source, not bulk.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:31 AM): Shai, just be careful to keep the numbers small, under 20K. Lots of people have their sites shut down for unsolicited emails.

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): If you want to go broke by just sitting around contemplating your navel instead of legitimately contacting prospects, that's your business.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): We are way more targeted than that Patrick, but thanks!

michael@tapinternet.com (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): hunch - VA = "virtual assistant"

Ben Woodward (www.perpetuainteractive.com) (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:32 AM): What's VA?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:33 AM): I'm OK with cold emails -- but getting email addresses for top people isn't easy

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 9:33 AM): Cold email calls working instead of cold phone calls? I'll bite: any online examples, or reasons why it works better than cold phone calls?

Del (10/29/2001 9:33 AM): Frederick: There's a difference in the communication Rob has eluded to sending. One involves communicating with highly-targeted personnel (usually top level decision makers) with NO sale in the message. Just an opportunity to open a dialogue. The other (SPAM) demands your attention. Demands the sale. And emails are culled from websites and newsgroups rather then true targeting.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:33 AM): Elizabeth, just call and ask for it. That way you also have permission to send it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): VA does indeed mean Virtual Assistant. And if the VA does the job right, you will end up with a list of prospects who legitimately could benefit from your services. Based on your brand compatibility, you should be able to craft a very convincing scenario for the two of you working together.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): Def. requires some work on your part Elizabeth. But the more you try the more you discover that it's not as hard as it seems

Del (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): Besides, I haven't heard Rob pushing Viagra, Digital Satellites, Reagents, etc.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): I wouldn't consider an email that is a follow up to a phone call a cold email

michael@tapinternet.com (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): Del, you just haven't come to this forum at the right times...

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): Del, the message has nothing to do in determining spam - it is the method, not the message

Steve Thomas (10/29/2001 9:34 AM): Rob, you said that affiliate programs don't work 90% of the time. There is a school of thought that building content-rich sites that are really useful to people and based on the idea of pre-selling the surfers on buying products from affiliates. Do you think this is a fallacy, and that it just can't work because it is based on affiliate programs?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): how can I find out more about virtual assistants?

Rena` SOHOXpress.com (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): The "cold" was in the call!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): I have my assistant look at the total picture of who we e-mail. And it works much better than a cold call. 100% of the respondents who contact us ask us to call. And then I get through 100% of the time to the decision maker.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): Any tips on how to differentiate between VAs?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): Joe, we have a bunch of the FrankelBiz list.

Del (10/29/2001 9:35 AM): Frederick: No, actually, it's YOUR definition of what Spam is.

Del (10/29/2001 9:36 AM): Michael: Actually, I was viewing the chat the other day when folks were slamming Rob.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:36 AM): Steve, affiliate programs do work, but not the way most people think of them. To really make it work you need (A) products with high margins (B) products with high prices (C) Motivated affiliates.

michael@tapinternet.com (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): Del: I was just joking around re: Viagra, etc. :)

Del (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): Just didn't feel like jumping into the fray.

Del (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): Michael: oh, oh, oh. Sorry. :*)

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): If they're willing to give you their email address, they're willing to have you contact them.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): Absolutely. It's like Rob said last time. People put their e-mail addresses on their site because they want to be contacted

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:37 AM): Affiliates don't hustle for 75¢ per book. They hustle for $500 per exercise machine, for example.

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:38 AM): My definition counts for nothing, Del - the definition given it by one's recipients is what matters.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:38 AM): I've found that affiliate programs work to the degree that you have credibility with your list, and endorse only the best valuable products and services

THE WEB NEWSROOM (azreporter.com) (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): We use Amazon as our high margin affiliate program We earn around $700 per quarter.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): YEAH! That's the whole point of the web! To link us all together and remove the barriers! If you can't decide for yourself what's legitimate contact and what's an annoying phone cal during dinner, you're right, Frederick. Fortunately, I can and so I never have had a negative response.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): At the end of the day, the question is, does it work? As long as you stay under 20K or so emails, you probably won't have any problems.

Del (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): Frederick: Precisely, and since Rob mention not one complaint and only 2 requests for removal, no "spam" classification exists for what he sent. exists

michael@tapinternet.com (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): Frederick: if I get an email I didn't want, *my* definition is not automatically "SPAM" - it depends on the content of the message. An all-text message politely introducing the sender may simply get tossed - HTML junk with 800 numbers, etc raises the blood pressure...

Claudine Jalajas (claudine@jalcompute.com) (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:39 AM): Patrick, does WHAT work?

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:40 AM): Rob - I think you said you get 4% response from your mailings - That to me is 96% negative response!

THE WEB NEWSROOM (azreporter.com) (10/29/2001 9:40 AM): But we also have HIGH traffic that we can sell low margin Books, CDs, Videos etc to make a profit

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:40 AM): That's because you're a negative guy, Fred!

Steve Thomas (10/29/2001 9:40 AM): Rob, thanks, I guess I came in the middle. You seem to be talking about the prospect of selling your product through affiliates. But what about finding good products and sales sites that sell them, and then generating traffic and pre-selling them to go to the sale site where they can be converted and we can earn commission. From this "pre-seller"/affiliate, do you think it makes sense building sites to sell other site's affiliate products?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:40 AM): That's the best amazon success story I've heard...there stuff ids such low margin...if you promoted higher margin affiliate programs, you could really cash in

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): To me, 4% is four times the rate of success that others expect!

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): My co. is reaching out to mfr.'s reps in industries we are interested in and talking to them about selling us to their mfrs. instead of the retail clients they are used to servicing. The email/direct mail combo I've sent out has gotten no positive response so far. Any thoughts?

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): No, just proper and polite

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): Rob, sorry sending people the emails. It works for you, so keep it up. It may not work for someone else that doesn't have your writing skills, but as long as they send out fewer than 20K the downside is limited.

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): Fredrick, you've obviously never sold before.

Claudine Jalajas (claudine@jalcompute.com) (10/29/2001 9:41 AM): I think store coupons get about a 2% return rate... 4% sounds pretty good to me

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): Steve, I don't. But mainly because I hesitate tying my fortunate to someone else's business. I learned the hard way on that one. Invested a lot of time and money only to watch the business people run their operations into the ground.

Frederick (bspage.com) (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): And been a salesman most of my life

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): dang, I thought 3% response was fantastic, 4 sounds great!

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): 4% is fantastic! The media is free, what's the downside?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): Direct mail averages only 1% - I would take 4% any time!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:42 AM): Fred, it probably depends on what you're selling.

THE WEB NEWSROOM (azreporter.com) (10/29/2001 9:43 AM): We've tried Higher margin affiliate programs, but we have found Amazon as BRAND name that people like better

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 9:43 AM): Elizabeth: how much have you tested the copywriting and message? Have you tried several different letters?

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:43 AM): Rob, Have you checked out the way Ken Evoy does it?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:43 AM): John, not nice to insult the host, Rob is a talented sales person

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:43 AM): Not every method works for every one -- which actually brings us back on topic: you have to choose the method that's brand compatible for you.

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (10/29/2001 9:44 AM): How did I insult the host?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:44 AM): Shai, I love Ken, But his programs are not for me.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:44 AM): John, I think he meant Joe

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:44 AM): Elizabeth, my guess is you are either not sending out enough or not saying anything they are interested in.

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 9:44 AM): Fred

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:45 AM): We've tried two...since we're recruiting salespeople, not clients, the messages shouldn't matter so much

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:45 AM): Elizabeth, Have you tried calling them and asking what they want to hear?

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:45 AM): Good point Rob. And in my case since I'm in the business of helping people to communicate, e-mail cold calls are definitely something that we should be doing

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): Elizabeth, recruiting salespeople does require the right message too :)

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): Why don't his programs jive for you Rob?

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): Elizabeth, the message ALWAYS matters.

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): Elizabeth, are you saying that salespeople don't care how they're pitched? I'd think they'd be *more* sensitive to the message than Joe Consumer.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): Shai, think about this: if YOUR e-mail could open a dialogue with them, isn't that proof that what you do works?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:46 AM): We're looking to hire them

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): Not sell them.

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): Elizabeth, then you aren't giving them a reason to want to work for you.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): Shai, like I said, I don't invest time and money in other people's programs unless I own them! Why would I write a book and then let Ken brand it? I lose all my brand value. And that's just the first issue....

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): so the question really is,

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): Even more important for you to have the right message for you then, Elizabeth - you ARE selling your company to them

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:47 AM): Exactly Rob. And it has in the past.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:48 AM): Elizabeth, the message is PARAMOUNT. How you express it is a close second

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:48 AM): Sure Rob, but why not learn from the way Ken does it and develop your own program?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:48 AM): That's what I meant, how we express it

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): The message is basically, make money from existing contacts

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): Um, because I can make a ton more per sale if I do it myself?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING) Anyone else while we have time?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): but it means thinking about your business in a new way

Steve Thomas (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): Rob, you mentioned that you loved Evoy's program. Could you do a quick pro/con on his approach?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): and yes, taking a risk with us

Del (10/29/2001 9:49 AM): Rob: Any timeline for a ROBX 2? Or workbook or case study book?

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Elizabeth, if you want to send me an email, I can try to help you. You have some message issues, but I can't give good advice in this format.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): What I really wanted to throw out is, would you solicit your own clients for money?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Del, seriously thinking about updating ROBX and a new book, if I can get the time to finish it.

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Elizabeth: you see it that way, THEY may see it as "selling out" their current employer or clients? Not that it is... just looking for the other side.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Patrick, I was going to anyway to find out more about your product

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Elizabeth, isn't that what business is about?

marc@msradv.com (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): That's my concern, too, Mike

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:50 AM): Elizabeth, I have thousands of contacts, but that doesn't mean they have already bought or will buy in the future.

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:51 AM): (By the way, in case anyone is wondering, we just sent out about 20 personalized e-mails on Friday and we've already gotten 3 positive responses... Opening the door... That's how this technique is really effective)

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:51 AM): Elizabeth, great! Looking forward to it.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:51 AM): Rob, I was asking earlier, I have a product that really delivers, common prospect concern...too good to be true, but it is true...any ideas to get early buy in?

Del (10/29/2001 9:51 AM): Rob: I still say you'd get a higher ticket per sale with a ROBX and workbook bundle.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:51 AM): Shai, as long as you control what you send and to whom you send it, you can do great.

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:52 AM): Right Terri. Would you call a co. you've placed workers in and sell them pencils?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:52 AM): Del, you're forgetting what ROBX is.....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:52 AM): Joe, that's pretty general....got any more details?

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:52 AM): We don't sell pencils, but you see what I mean

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:53 AM): only if it was a package deal, Elizabeth - another person complete with pencils <grin>

Del (10/29/2001 9:53 AM): Rob: Nope. You're just too close to your own product. If colleges are using it for textbooks, common sense would say they would buy the associated workbook too. :p

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:54 AM): Our $1000 referral system generates new clients in perpetuity...it's a process...our first case study brings in 15 to 20 new clients a week

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:54 AM): Del...ROBX is a low-cost, for profit way to draw in clients.

marc@msradv.com (10/29/2001 9:54 AM): Good Morning, and if I can jump in.....

Claudine Jalajas (claudine@jalcompute.com) (10/29/2001 9:54 AM): Elizabeth.. make them mechanical pencils and we have a deal. ;-)

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:55 AM): Joe, you have an easy one if that's the case. Ten minute solution, tops.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:55 AM): Del, I have no college buying program. And College text book services are not receptive to such proposals. The book has been bought by professors for their own classes!!!

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:55 AM): $200,000 a year new revenue for our first client

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:55 AM): Go Marc....We have five minutes left

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:55 AM): Joe, what markets/Industries is it effective in?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:56 AM): Patrick, we have believability issues

Elizabeth (10/29/2001 9:56 AM): What we're doing is basically calling Terri and saying, you know people at IBM b/c you've placed people there, how about making some money by selling pencils to IBM?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:57 AM): Don't Forget folks....the Big Time Branding Seminar is ON!!! http://www.RobFrankel.com/seminar.html ....Nice group forming! <----PLUG

Patrick@directconnectionsint.com (10/29/2001 9:57 AM): Joe, I can fix that.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:57 AM): Currently, salons/day spas, but doing case studies with plumbers, and chiropractors

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:58 AM): TWO MINUTES

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 9:58 AM): Elizabeth: if I can offer my clients a product that helps them, great. but I'm sure Rob will be the first to say that if the message is off of THEIR brand: they place people, but you want them to sell something else, that won't "fly"?

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 9:58 AM): feel free to email me Patrick, or call...562-961-3976

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 9:58 AM): I see what you mean Elizabeth, and of course pencils are way off my brand :)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:59 AM): This is a brand-compatibility issue....and in branded alliances, you have to make sure your brand always stays in the lead role.

Del (10/29/2001 9:59 AM): Joe: Abraham fan? (Finally got your page to load)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 9:59 AM): WOW! What a session today! This was hot! Thanks to everyone!

Shai Plonski (splonski@incysivemedia.com) (10/29/2001 9:59 AM): Dear Frankel Biz members, I am here to introduce you to our company: Inysive Media. (www.incysivemedia.com) Check us out if you are looking to improve the way you communicate through the web, print and multimedia.

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com - Professional Web Tracking) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): It was great. See y'all next week!

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): I have your email too

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): Once more: PLUG Don't Forget folks....the Big Time Branding Seminar is ON!!! http://www.RobFrankel.com/seminar.html ....Nice group forming! <----PLUG

Alanna (webmaster@lovestories.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): thanks

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): yes Del

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): Thanks Rob and everyone! exciting session today! See you all next week!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): See you online!

Mike Chwastiak (creative@mediacollision.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): Great stuff. Thanks everyone. Awesome work as usual, Rob.

THE WEB NEWSROOM (azreporter.com) (10/29/2001 10:00 AM): Nice Chat! Put a link to The Web Newsroom this week on your site <-- PLUG

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (10/29/2001 10:01 AM): Happy Monday everyone! Have a good week.

JoeNicassio(joe@rapidresultsmarketing.com) (10/29/2001 10:01 AM): thanks rob

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