Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic November 16, 1998

RobFrankel (11/16/98 8:59 AM): Good Morning gentlemen...

David Beroff (11/16/98 8:59 AM): Hi, Rob. Did you see my inquiry re: Cache Compensation Factor?

Muhammad (11/16/98 8:59 AM): Good Morning, hour south huh? Cool.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:00 AM): A Fellow Pa Resident

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:00 AM): No, David, what did I miss?

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:01 AM): I think on IADL ... the idea of an authoritative source that we can quote...

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:01 AM): so when one does sell by impression, one doesn't have to use cache-busters, but work *with* the caching mechanism, and just have a way to count

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (11/16/98 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:02 AM): Good morning folks

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:03 AM): I mean, *I* know that I am delivering an ad perhaps as much as twice as much as the logs say, but it would be nice to be able to quote an authority and say, "multiply by this CCF factor"

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:03 AM): Basically, most banner ad programs use a cgi script to server the banner each time the page is reloaded, so the cache factor doesn't really come into play.....Depending on your banner ad program

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:04 AM): that's my point: the cgi is used to "get around" the cache, ultimately, so one can get paid more (at the expense of bandwidth)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:04 AM): Greetings, John, Amy, Ira... what's on your marketing minds today? Anything I can help with?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:04 AM): And David, let's not get too techie, here....

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:04 AM): CGI's usually only account for proxy-caching, not browser-caching

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:04 AM): I want to respect the bandwidth; there's only so much to go around, and all...

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (11/16/98 9:05 AM): This is my first time in this chat room. Just checking it out to find out what I can ask.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:05 AM): sorry, Rob; it does fit under the marketing hat, but I can hang it up if you'd like.. :-)

Laura (11/16/98 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:05 AM): Yeah, but your a businessman, do you want to respect bandwidth or make money? Granted I don't want to be a bandwidth hog, but not at the expense of the bottom line.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:06 AM): caching at any level is a good thing, John; the counter argument is, "then you can't log it" (and get paid for it)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:06 AM): Amy, you can ask anything at all, as long as you can't get arrested for it in states like Arkansas...nah, just kidding. This is about whatever you want to find out about business and stuff...jump right in.

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:06 AM): I've got a question to throw out today... I'm working on a series for my MTOTD newsletter to help merchants encourage their visitors to shop online this holiday season (and beyond)... anyone have any ideas they can bring up for things that would encourage *you* to do more shopping online?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:07 AM): David, we got a slew of new members over the weekend. Almost a hundred. Many might be first timers here today...

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:07 AM): Muhammad, it really amounts to the same thing!! I pay for my own server, my own bandwidth, etc. ... I am about to see a $200/mo INCREASE due to my usage (& the price is fair)

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:07 AM): ok, no prob... welcome new members!!

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:07 AM): Ira, I kid you not: this year we did ALL of our holiday gift shopping on line, mainly because sent us a 15% discount coupon...

lance (11/16/98 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (11/16/98 9:08 AM): I know that photos of products make me more interested in "buying" online. Without photos...who knows what you get.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:08 AM): Personally, I'd like to see more people pumping the holiday gift buying thing. It's a real no-brainer and motivates people like me who hate crowds....

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:08 AM): Rob, what sort of "coupon" was this? A pass code??

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:08 AM): Rob, you should use that experience as a topic for one of your newsletter or other articles

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:09 AM): Yes, john, it was a special coupon number, although when I got to the specified page, I couldn't find the entry field with a flashlight and a compass...

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (11/16/98 9:09 AM): I have a one-man photography business...what is the best medium for advertising? I can also do commercial photography.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:09 AM): Hmm... I guess you have to calculate a bandwidth to revenue ratio for your banners. If spending $200 on bandwidth, generates more than that in revenue don't worry about it. But if it doesn't.....

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:09 AM): in general, those of us who do shop online should tell others about why we did it, why it was great, etc... for example, the convenience as rob mentioned

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:10 AM): Ira, you bet I will. Amy, I agree on the picture issue. In fact, there's a very hip software program called LivePicture that lets you zoom in on stuff for detail...

Amy (11/16/98 9:11 AM): If I could provide photos of items, how could that be marketed?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:11 AM): Amy, at my agency (Frankel & Anderson) we only use digital stuff we can download from stock agencies and warehouses, like which we use as the basis for illustration. I believe the best way for you to go is to sell your stuff as royalty-free s

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:11 AM): Don't forget to mention that it's safe, I have to convince clients on a daily basis that using a credit card online is safe.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:11 AM): Rob, sounds interesting. Is LivePicture a plug-in that each visitor needs to install? Or can you just install it on your server?

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:12 AM): Amy, what kind of items are you talking about... are you trying to sell the items or the photos?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:12 AM): ...royalty-free stock photos. Buy a cheap CD burner and ship it out at a few hundred a pop...

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:13 AM): Amy, you could try selling some to Corel for their photo-CD series...

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:13 AM): John, Live Picture is a software app server side. It's produced by Live Picture and called Reality Studio. (No, they're not a sponsor...yet)

Amy (11/16/98 9:13 AM): I am selling the images of the specific items internet ready. For example, I just did photos of soap...

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:14 AM): John, it is plugless, I believe. But I need to check that...

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:14 AM): Muhammad, safety is an issue I'll be addressing in one of the tips in the series I'm writing, but I'm more and more convinced that is not as big a problem as the fact that we are dealing with a new way to shop - and people just don't like doing new things, unless they have a real good reason to try it

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:14 AM): hey, we don't use soap around here!

Amy (11/16/98 9:14 AM): for a woman that handmakes soap. She put together packages of them and put them on the net as baskets.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:14 AM): David is the earthiest one of the Frankel Bees....

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:14 AM): :-)

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:15 AM): I think it is a combination of new things and fear

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:15 AM): Hey, my, do you know Louise from That's her line of business, too, soaps...

Amy (11/16/98 9:15 AM): I guess it would be industry specific...if they are unique items they couldn't get in "stock" catalogs.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:15 AM): I know a lot of people who are afraid to use credit cards online

Amy (11/16/98 9:16 AM): The woman I did the photos for is from

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:16 AM): oh Yep! I know her too :)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:16 AM): Ah, here's a REAL issue that I will be writing about soon: getting people to change their habits. You'll find that getting people to change (including your parents, spouses and clients) is a two step process:

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:17 AM): Most people try to get people to change right off the bat. But the critical step they miss is that before anyone can embrace anything NEW....

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:17 AM): ...they must first become comfortable with rejecting the OLD.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:18 AM): Hey, Louise, you and Amy should hook up...

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:18 AM): Yup, we call that "unfreezing"... Easier said than done though.

Amy (11/16/98 9:18 AM): Louise, do you have a web site? Are you from

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:18 AM): See how it works Amy? You're already networking!

Laura (11/16/98 9:19 AM): What form of advertising is best for a new product on the internet?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:19 AM): John, if you have kids, spouses or clients, you know it's not that hard. But it does take a little patience and a lot of understanding.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:19 AM): I sure am :) and just getting ready for a makeover :)

Amy (11/16/98 9:19 AM): Thanks for the vote of confidence.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:19 AM): Muhammed, are these people afraid of using cc's online with people/companies they already know and trust? or with "strangers"??

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:20 AM): Entered the room.

Amy (11/16/98 9:20 AM): Louise, we should talk about your new makeover. My web site is and my e-mail is on that page.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:20 AM): Laura, it depends on what the product is. Too many know-it-alls tend to preach a one-size-fits-all message, but the truth is that it's the product or service that dictates the overall ad strategy

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:20 AM): Rob, I'm not sure they have to reject the old, just accept that the old way isn't the only way. If I'm looking for a book to read, but nothing specific, I still prefer the bookstore around the corner... but if I'm looking for something specific, especially if the neighborhood store doesn't have it, online bookstores are incredibly convenient.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:20 AM): What Kind of product? Whose your market? There are so many different kinds of Internet advertising its hard to say.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:20 AM): two things that helped me convince my better half: 1. Make it an absolute no-brainer (which is why I'm a fan of WebTV, despite their new owners), and 2. find *some* connection to the prior method (e.g., in our case, it was a daily recipe mailing list)

Amy (11/16/98 9:20 AM): John, I think people are afraid to use their cc even if they know and trust the company. They are afraid of everyone else out there getting their hands on the info...

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:20 AM): John I think you hit the nail on the head. I find that once people get to know me, they don't have any problem paying with a CC, Guess the personal touch is what is missing

Laura (11/16/98 9:21 AM): The product is a Bar-B-Que. sauce made with different berries.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:21 AM): Credit cards are the perfect example. Once you give them the "waiter" example, most people have no trouble using them.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:21 AM): Thanks Amy, I will have a look :)

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:21 AM): Most of the people I talk to are convinced some "Evil Hacker" is watching and will steal their credit card number, factor that in with no knowing the merchant and some cases and you get people afraid to use credit cards

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:22 AM): MM... Bar-B-Que., I think I might fire up the grill.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:22 AM): unfortunately, there is a grain of truth to the hacker concerns... & as u well know, it only takes one....

Amy (11/16/98 9:22 AM): Rob, what do you think of Web Cards where they take your web site from the internet and make postcards from it to introduce your site...good idea?

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:23 AM): In the online world, we've all be "thinking" that fear of stolen credit cards is the big problem for years now... but has anyone by any chance ever seen any type of *objective* study that says this is the case?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:23 AM): okay, Laura, you have to think "niche". Start gathering as many cooking and barbecue manufacturers sites and see what kind of list you end up with.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:23 AM): If you could find some food and cooking related E-zines and newsletters, that might be a good place to start. Where is Nancy? She's a food marketing expert.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:23 AM): Personally, Amy, I don't dig web cards at all. I think they're another idea that someone wants to sell but have to real purpose.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:23 AM): I wonder why they make the distinction between making a cc purchase online, and giving it to a waiter who disappears to run their card...

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:24 AM): I never understood those webcard things (apologies if one of u is marketing this) ... y not put the same effort/expense into a regular intended-for-print brochure?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:24 AM): Laura, you should take that list, and start thinking about programs that not only sell your product, but also can be sold in bulk to partners who might see your sauce as a value-add to their sales, you know?

Amy (11/16/98 9:24 AM): People don't hesitate to give their cc number to people on the phone to order services, subscriptions, etc. Why would the internet be any different?

Laura (11/16/98 9:24 AM): there is a vast number of sauce pages of every kind. I have one sauce I know nobody is advertising, it is made with marionberries, from Oregon.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:25 AM): You Live In Oregon! I went to high School in Washington state!

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:25 AM): Amy, the "difference" is that it is much easier to "sniff" the transmissions over the "net

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:25 AM): There is one chapter in my book that focuses heavily on the niche thing. And on the web, you can't get narrow enough. The more you niche, the better you do.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:26 AM): I'm assuming that is what SET is trying to address

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:26 AM): Amy, with telephone order, you can use "auxiliary" clues to judge whether the outfit is legit...

Shore (11/16/98 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:26 AM): Muhammad, is there any place you HAVEN'T been???

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:26 AM): I think that there is a lot of fear associated with the Internet. People have no problems giving their credit cards to strangers and as long as it is not on the net.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:27 AM): South America

Amy (11/16/98 9:27 AM): Muhammad, where in Washington state did you go to school? I still live here.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:27 AM): Online, you need to create a similar set of "auxiliary" clues that build trust and legitimacy.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:27 AM): Getting back to Ira's original question, you just wait until the word gets out about how much people are saving on the net, and then watch how the credit cards fly in.

Laura (11/16/98 9:27 AM): No I don't live in Oregon, the sauce is made there. I live in California.

Amy (11/16/98 9:27 AM): Rob, what is the name of your book and where can I find it?

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:28 AM): Evergreen High School, In Clark County right over the border from Oregon

Amy (11/16/98 9:28 AM): John, like what type of "auxiliary clues?"

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:28 AM): one of the underlying differences is that the Internet grew up as open-everything, in a shared community. I don't know about the telephone network, but I'm guessing that it is slightly more secure (though I wouldn't make a bet on that)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:28 AM): And John, don't forget the offline nudges: I just did about 8 segments for Lifetime TV on internet shopping, and they all push the safety and convenience..

Amy (11/16/98 9:29 AM): Muhammad, there is an Evergreen High School in South Seattle...not a good area. Glad that isn't the one you went to. :)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:29 AM): Whoa, David, the phone network secure? Ho, ho, ho...

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:30 AM): BTW, Shore, if you have a question, jump right on in...

Amy (11/16/98 9:30 AM): I even heard people that take magazine subscriptions over the phone are in prison. A work program for inmates.. Are you saying that is secure?

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:30 AM): David, As an Electrical Engineer let me assure you that the telephone network isn't very secure.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:30 AM): ...auxiliary clues include: physical address, phone number, testimonial with ways to contact them, no spelling mistakes, no blinking text ;-) i.e. the same things *you* use to judge the legitimacy of a web offering.

Shore (11/16/98 9:30 AM): Thanks Rob. This is my first visit.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:30 AM): I'm glad too, I enjoyed my nice safe suburban high school thank you.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:31 AM): To show you how NON-SECURE the phone company is, I can tell you that when I was in high school, I could call all over the world for free, just by using my phone and no other equipment.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:31 AM): ok, you guys win on security... so why don't we hear more of these problems from wiretaps?

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:31 AM): ha! I can't believe it! Even on this marketing discussion, no one here trusts anything to be secure enough! If we can't be sure, how in the world are we to convince our customers?????

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:31 AM): u still have that box? ;-)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:31 AM): You don't hear more about wiretaps because it is a constitutional issue.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:32 AM): Good point, one of the first things I will tell a client is to put a physical address and phone number on their web site.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:32 AM): No David, I did it with numbers and a switch hook

Amy (11/16/98 9:32 AM): Even though cc is more convenient to take orders via the net, I still believe the personal touch is still needed.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:33 AM): Constitutional!? Oh, u mean when the Feds do it. (don't even get me started there :-) No, I was talking about phone-hackers (like Rob); what are they called, "phreakers", I think?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:33 AM): AHA! LOUSIE! FELLINTO MY TRAP! They trust you because your BRAND is trustworthy! The world is a branding issue!

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:33 AM): something tells me that Rob isn't going to archive this conversation, all this talk of past deeds LOL

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:33 AM): no , but others of us will ;-)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:34 AM): Yes, I was a phreak, but only moderately. Saved a lot of money, though. Those were the days when long distance cost a fortune.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:34 AM): Amy, definitely. Case in point: After spending several months giving free support and service to our beta testers, 52%(!) converted to paying customers when we launched... The personal touch/trust was already there.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:34 AM): Of course I will, but we're NOT going to discuss my past dating habits...

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:34 AM): and gee, Rob , that anagram of my name isn't trusting either LOLOL

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:34 AM): When I was at IW Fall '98, Agent-7 was trying to add that "personal touch" with little animated people that populate your website... maybe that will actually work...?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:35 AM): You hit it on the head John. It's WHO you are, not WHAT you do that they remember most.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:35 AM): John, what business are you in? Software I presume?

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:35 AM): Or get annoying real quick, could be interesting

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:35 AM): By the way, let me take a time out here and ask if anyone here today is NOT on the FrankelBiz list?

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:35 AM): and this is also the reason why I run a few discussion lists. So that they can get to know me

Amy (11/16/98 9:36 AM): I think offering a telephone number (especially an 800#) and a physical address should be enough to entice people to buy if you have a product that is marketed properly. cc or no cc offering.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:36 AM): I wish that were the case Amy, but oftentimes it just isn't

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:36 AM): Yes, Amy, those help to alleviate fear. They add to the long-term investment in a trusted, reliable brand.

Amy (11/16/98 9:37 AM): cc sites almost make people NOT trust you (for some reason).

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:37 AM): Most of the time, they really want to get to know you as well :)

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:37 AM): Muhammed, we're in the web tracking business. Hence my comments earlier about accurately counting ad impressions. There are *much* cheaper ways than cache-busting the entire banner.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:38 AM): The whole cc issue is media hype. It's like the peanut butter issue in schools. No issue, just a slow news day. Believe me, if we had invaded Iraq, nobody would talk about cc fraud.

Amy (11/16/98 9:38 AM): Thanks for the great pointers. I'm off to check out the Greencottage site and others. Until next week!

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:39 AM): By the way, there still haven't been any publicly documented cases of credit card weirdness.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:39 AM): bye Amy, I will tell Liz I saw you on here :)

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:39 AM): John, what is your URL?

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:39 AM): John what is your web site address? We may be able to do business in the future

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:40 AM): Yeah, John, I have a feeling that a lot of people on FrankelBiz could use your services.

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:40 AM): John, I was watching the responses, but I don't recall yours, and it's rolled off the screen. Please email them to me off-chat: .. Thanks!

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:40 AM): Muhammed, we're at ( We've got some new products in Beta <shhhh...> that you might be interested in.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:40 AM): Good Point rob, It would be extremely difficult to steal a credit card number of the web. Especially if it was a secure server transaction

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:40 AM): David, you can also pick up everything from the archives of this discussion.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:41 AM): Rob, last time I checked, I couldn't find any archives newer than about a month old... where should I be looking?

Shore (11/16/98 9:41 AM): I hate to be the one to say it...but *most* secure servers are not all that secure.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:41 AM): New Products eh, Drop me a line sometime, and let me know what you've got going.

Shore (11/16/98 9:42 AM): Of course nobody will document it because it would look like *their* server was the only one that wasn't secure.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:43 AM): John, Nice web site!

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:43 AM): There was an article in c|net this Spring about a cc theft case--they stole them out of an ISP's online database and tried selling them to an undercover FBI agent...

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:43 AM): The archives are caught up to last weeks chat as of now, prior to this, they were about a month behind.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:43 AM): Archives of the Frankel Free Clinic are at

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:44 AM): Muhammad, you only looked at 2 pages (real-time tracking!) ;-)

Shore (11/16/98 9:45 AM): I like this bunch already :-)

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:45 AM): Good Stuff John, guess you are aware of the location of my secret office!

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:45 AM): Oops, WRONG ADDRESS. Archives of the Free Clinic are at

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:46 AM): Vancouver, huh?

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:46 AM): so did I think :)

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:46 AM): no that is me :)

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:47 AM): Not in Vancouver, my secret office is still secret

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:47 AM): Whoops!

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:47 AM): I have no secrets LOL

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:48 AM): Shore, what's your gig?

Shore (11/16/98 9:49 AM): Web hosting, design, content publishing.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTES WARNING)

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:50 AM): Ira, did you get enough ideas for the MTOTD?

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:51 AM): nice to see you all! gotta go, it is my busy season ( gee, when isn't it!!??) anyway just wanted to add a plug and say that the FrankelBee list is great! and that I was NetProfits radio a week ago :) That was fun :)

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:52 AM): Ira don't forget to include the fact that people don't want to mess around with shopping with a site that takes forever to get to the shopping part

Ira Pasternack (11/16/98 9:52 AM): got lots of ideas, thanks (on phone now, though, will have to check archive to make sure I didn't miss anything)

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:53 AM): Ira also don't forget sites that don't have shopping cart systems

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 9:53 AM): Entered the room.

Louise the SoapLady (11/16/98 9:53 AM): Ira don't forget to include the fact that people don't want to mess around with shopping with a site that takes forever to get to the shopping part

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:53 AM): Okay, we got seven minutes left, and then I gotta split, too...

David Beroff (11/16/98 9:53 AM): yeah... 8 screens to drill down to finally get to the goal... grr...

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:54 AM): Rob, when you mentioned off-line promotion, you were referring to more than just press releases?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:54 AM): Yes, I always recommend that every home page have a "quick start" button that takes you to the order page. Even if they don't use it, they like to know it's there.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:55 AM): Absolutely, John. I consider partnering with complementary but non-competitives as offline.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:55 AM): Of course, there's also offline collateral material and advertising, too.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:55 AM): So you're not just talking about, say, editorial coverage?

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:56 AM): You should also put your web site address on all offline literature and offline advertising. Your web site address on a company letter, can be surprisingly effective

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:57 AM): Right. Most web companies have low budgets, so that don't spend on advertising. But that doesn't mean you focus entirely on online stuff. The real deals that support online are still done off line.

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:57 AM): Along the lines of "building trust and credibility" offline, what's the biggest bang for the time spent?

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:58 AM): Muhammad is correct. I always tell new clients that they can get a million bucks worth of global exposure for free, just by adding their URL and e-mail address to everything they print.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 9:58 AM): The biggest bang? Customer service programs.

Muhammad (11/16/98 9:58 AM): Exactly, your web site is a marketing tool utilize it as such. Us it to enhance your offline networking and advertising. I can meet someone give them my business card with my web site address and sometimes that's all it takes to get new business

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 9:59 AM): Hmmm.. guess we better get *something* printed then (so that we have a place to put our URL/email address) ;-)

Shore (11/16/98 10:00 AM): I tell my clients to do whatever they would if they were opening an additional physical location.

Muhammad (11/16/98 10:00 AM): Good Idea, John I may have a client that will need services like yours in a big way. So be sure to drop me a line(

David Beroff (11/16/98 10:00 AM): biz cards are cheap; recommendation: only print 250, despite cheaper costs for more quantity. u will inevitably need to change something after 50

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 10:00 AM): Didn't mean to be so quiet, today, Rob. Experiencing technical difficulties - every time I got caught up, the line would drop or the PC would lock. You gave excellent advice last week, we'll know by next week what is happening with it.

David Beroff (11/16/98 10:00 AM): 250! I slipped & sent that "50" :-)

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 10:00 AM): Rob: Customer Service Programs??? Please explain.

Joe O'Neill (11/16/98 10:01 AM): Waiting to hear back from a website found on Christian Connections.

RobFrankel (11/16/98 10:01 AM): Next week, John. Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online!

John Charlesworth (11/16/98 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob. See you next week.

Muhammad (11/16/98 10:01 AM): C-ya Rob.

Shore (11/16/98 10:02 AM): I will certainly be back Rob. And should finally post an intro this week to the list.

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