Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic November 26, 2001

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 8:59 AM): Well, here we go again....Frankel's Free Clinic is open for business....

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:00 AM): Hi Peggie. Makes me think of Smores...

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:00 AM): yeppers. Where is everyone? Well Rob's here, what more do we need?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:00 AM): Peggie, remember that a few people always get the time wrong....smorgan may not even be here right now.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:01 AM): hmmm, like the old days are MIRC - a shadow?

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:01 AM): I was three hours early my first time. Lil' too eager, I guess...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:01 AM): I usually expect a light turnout on the day surrounding vacations. Last week was a two day work week for most people, so they're probably playing catch-up.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:01 AM): It's very easy to get the time wrong since I'm on Central time - requires MATH!

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:02 AM): They didn't teach much math in Design school...

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:02 AM): Two day work week? Ha! I worked even on T-Day

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:02 AM): Earlier this morning, I saw that some people from India had logged on, too. It really whacks them out!

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (11/26/2001 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Gosh, Ben, we better think of some good questions, QUICK

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): No big deal. As I wrote a week or so ago, this is a weird time for business. Too much going on, and not enough business being done.

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): We gotta deliver... the pressure's on...

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Hey John, morning.

John McCumber-Virtumundo.com (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:03 AM): O ye of little faith!

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): Actually, I'm busy working my way down a calling list, and trying to get mailer materials put together and on their way this afternoon. Trying to drum up some new local interest...

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): Hi John - I got that problem resolved thanks for your assistance

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): Good morning. I usually lurk here on Mon. mornings, but today I have a question.

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): Rob: Is your book available in audio format?

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): Well Rob, if I can start with that - I'm unable to kick things into high gear since 9/11 - I've read your newsletters but I still haven't gotten the key

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:04 AM): And heeeeeeere they are! Hi Ann & Ray! I think you're both new here. Just know that we always like to let the new people go first, so jump in any time, okay?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:05 AM): Ben, the book is NOT available in audio, the tapes are a different story.....

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 9:05 AM): Hi Rob, thanks for the warm welcome

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:05 AM): Seems I've got a stack of books on my desk I'm trying to budget time to read...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:05 AM): Peggie, design -- like my own business -- is a long lead time. You should accept that everyone has taken a big hit and is still recovering. personally, I'm writing off 2001 and booking 2002 business

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:06 AM): Ben, the book tells you the WHY of Big Time Branding; the tapes tell you the HOW.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:06 AM): We are a software developer and reseller in the scientific market.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:06 AM): We are a software developer and reseller in the scientific market.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:06 AM): Well I've simply got to get something going. Everything was good before 9/11 but man this quarter is killing us

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:07 AM): What kind of software, Ann?

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:07 AM): I'll have to simply MAKE time for them then... a little birdie told me it'd be worth it...

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:07 AM): Trust the birdie, Ben. That's one smart chirper.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:07 AM): Geology, mapping, data visualization.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:08 AM): Peggie, this is the time you should be ramping up your outbound marketing. Believe me, everyone else is crying their beer. Take this moment to get your brand out in front.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:08 AM): Okay, Ann, how can I help you?

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:08 AM): Okay Rob, now HOW?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:09 AM): Peggie, FWIW, I've been marketing harder now than ever before. But it took 9/11 to get me off my butt, too.

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:09 AM): Peggie, I brainstormed two pages of "new business generation" ideas the other day I want to try within the next three months. I'd be happy to share some ideas if you want to email me...

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:09 AM): FWIW?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:10 AM): Peggie, since most of your work is via the web, start contacting people. It's like being a kid at a high school dance. You've got to choose the ones you want to dance with -- then you have to cross the gym floor and ask. Nicely.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:10 AM): For What It's Worth

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:10 AM): Ben, email address? ben@perpetuainteractive.com?

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:11 AM): Question on 'viral' marketing

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:11 AM): Ann?

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:11 AM): Actually, it's BOW@ or INFO@. But BEN@ will get to me too, I think...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:12 AM): Let's have some clear space for Ann to ask her question.....

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:12 AM): What is the best way to brand on pay per click engines?

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:13 AM): Ohhh, I've read the newsletters, I know what's coming.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:13 AM): WHOA, Ann! Let's start by getting our definitions straight. First, branding and awareness are NOT the same thing. You create the brand, that's branding. THEN you raise its awareness.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:13 AM): Ann, you don't brand on PPC engines at all. You advertise on them. That's gets them to your site.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:14 AM): Of course, if you brand properly, you NEVER have to use PPC engines, because people seek your brand out as the best solution.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:15 AM): I guess I was wondering how important it is to list your company name (our brand) on a listing. i.e. RockWare - Listing Text here

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:15 AM): If you believe (as I do) that Big Time Branding "turns users into evangelists", you see how that works. Like-minded prospects stick together and refer people to you.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:15 AM): Take my own brand for example. I NEVER pay for PPC, yet Google has me ranked something like 15th under "branding".

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:15 AM): I agree with Rob ... everyone seems to be waiting till ;02 ... now's the time to work on branding and the product

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:16 AM): If it's simply name awareness, I think it's important. Especially if the PPC engine displays a lot of rankings per page. I know that I use the "Find" function to wade through text results.

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:17 AM): I agree with Rob ... everyone seems to be waiting till ;02 ... now's the time to work on branding and the product

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:17 AM): Would you expand on "find" Rob?

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:17 AM): It seems that we pay the most money for the products we resell, not our own. So we do have quite a bit of evangelists.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:17 AM): I'll tell ya, Ann, I even go so far as to say the name of my company in URL form in interviews, just to make sure the reporter gets the URL in the story. So I'd say it's important.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:18 AM): Ann, did I read that right? Seems to me that you'd be well-branded if you sold lots of your own products, no?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:19 AM): Peggie: Often I hit "Command F" (Macintosh) to bring up the browser's find command. It searches of a word or phrase on the page.

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:19 AM): I agree with Rob ... everyone seems to be waiting till ;02 ... now's the time to work on branding and the product

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:19 AM): Yes, we sell lots of our own products, but our competitors buy key words related to our products so we buy them too.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:19 AM): Isn't that the tail wagging the dog?

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:19 AM): Rob, but you've already done that with your search, haven't you?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): Ann, I suspect that puts your brand in a precarious position. Wouldn't you be more solid basing your fortunes on your own brand instead of the whims of keyword availability. that sounds scary to me, but then I don't really know your business....that's just "off the top" thinking.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): [good morning all, belatedly]

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): I guess so. It would be interesting to find out if we had the same sales without the PPCs. My bosses are very interested in traffic quantity.

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): One thing is that your pages are missing a lot of meta data that search engines rely on Ann.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:21 AM): Peggie: No, the search brings up pages of results. The Find command searches those results and stops at every occurrence of the phrase.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:22 AM): AHA! Well, Ann, that's a big problem. When people start realizing that it's QUALITY that counts, not quantity, you'll see what branding really can do.

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:22 AM): I agree with Rob ... everyone seems to be waiting till ;02 ... now's the time to work on branding and the product

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:23 AM): Ann, at some point, visit http://www.robfrankel.com/genital.html

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:23 AM): ANYONE ELSE have something to toss out?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:24 AM): Or toss out?

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:24 AM): I will, thanks Rob. I have your book too. It's just hard to convince the higher ups. Will work on it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:24 AM): Ann, I feel your pain....Thanks for buying the book. Throw it at them and let it do the convincing for you. It usually works.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:25 AM): Rob - any thoughts on B2B advertising in business-related ezines?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:25 AM): BTW, I do like the name RockWare.

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:25 AM): I'm not seeing this page refresh...

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:25 AM): Peggie, what meta data should we add?

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:25 AM): Trying to convince higher-ups led me to start my own business. Thank God for stubborn managers. =)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:26 AM): What kind of B2B are you talking about Jonathan?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:26 AM): Bill, quit your browser and log back on....

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:26 AM): Rob - selling my copywriting services.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:27 AM): Wow, that's a tough sell, Jonathan. have you identified who your buyers are? Because my experience is that only micro-businesses are going to hire writers directly.

Bill Volk (11/26/2001 9:27 AM): I have a question on the worth of bringing on small clients for the purposes of viral marketing

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:27 AM): You might have better luck advertising to PR agencies....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): You're next Bill.

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): Jon: Have you ever hit gateways with a heavy marketing push? Methinks advertisers, design agencies, and pr firms would outsource more copy and need your services than Billy's Burger Shack...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): One PR list of smaller agencies is the SSPRA list, hosted by Ned Barnett. Good group of a few hundred PR people.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): Rob - actually I am shifting my focus to middlemen (agencies, marketing firms, graphic design firms, etc.) that do not have in-house writers or have overflow needs

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:28 AM): I have a question on the worth of bringing on small clients for the purposes of viral marketing

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:29 AM): Thanks Rob - I will check out the SSPRA

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:29 AM): Ann, a bunch - category for one, you have key word description, but not Keywords, no copyright, no authorization for bots to index, no age, no location, etc.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:29 AM): Ben, I disagree. Most ad agencies and audiences who frequent those venues have a strong "Not invented Here" bias. They see outsourcing as a sign of weakness. I think the best bet are the solo shops who understand the positive aspects of outsourcing.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:29 AM): What, specifically, Bill?

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 9:30 AM): Jonathan, it depends on the list and how many clients you need from the ad

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:30 AM): Ann, you are also using a frame set - search engines HATE frames unless they are done right.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:30 AM): Ben - what do you mean by gateways?

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:31 AM): Thanks Peggie. I'll talk to the web guy.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:31 AM): Jonathan, it's especially tough for a writer to sell, because people expect the ad they're reading -- the one you wrote --to sell them!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:31 AM): Ann, Peggie's right about that. That's why my site has nothing but HTML. Simple and pure.

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:31 AM): One last quick question. Anyone notice less referrals from Yahoo since they added sponsored results?

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:31 AM): The way I see it, there are plenty of "one-man" shops around trying to tout full-service offerings. I personally don't have a problem outsourcing when I need to, and take comfort knowing that it comes through me (usually, I'll art direct to make sure the quality of the outsourced work is as high as that of the work I do).

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:32 AM): Bill, you still there?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:32 AM): Ben, I agree.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:32 AM): Rob - be that as it may, I intend to test the waters...

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 9:32 AM): iEntry has some lists of designers that might fit the bill

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:32 AM): Ann, I was shocked to see my site listed as a sponsor!!!

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:33 AM): thanks, ray

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:33 AM): Jon: Gateways are sort of "business partners" you can team up with who might offer similar services. Piggyback their client list and see if you can add value to what they offer...

Peggie www.KatsueyDesignWorks.com (11/26/2001 9:33 AM): Well wait a minute, I'm a designer too!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:33 AM): Good luck, Jonathan. What waters you going to try? I suggest you take up Adventive on their "free classified ads for subscribers" offer.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:34 AM): Typically we sell 'servers' ... at a monthly cost of $1k and up...

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 9:34 AM): I can send an email with links, rates, etc

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:34 AM): Nice offer, there, Ray. Atta way.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:34 AM): So Bill, what's the proposition you're offering?

Tamra (hcstudios.com) (11/26/2001 9:34 AM): Entered the room.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:35 AM): but since those deals are slow in closing ... and because I have some potential clients who are willing to pay $2/ZipProof ... I am considering taking on these small clients so that people start seeing ZipProofs in their work

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:35 AM): Rob - I am going to try the direct email approach you suggested some chat sessions ago, as well as trial runs of targeted ezine advertising, possibly search engine advertising, and good old-fashioned cold calls and snail mail direct mail. The whole works - see what works best.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:35 AM): Okay....so what's the deal?

Ann (rockware.com) (11/26/2001 9:35 AM): Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:36 AM): No prob, Ann!

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:36 AM): Should I take on almost no-profit small customers ... for the purpose of 'viral' marketing the ZipProof "fax replacement" concept

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:37 AM): Does 'viral marketing' work? Or is it just another dot-com myth?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:38 AM): Bill, I don't know the hidden costs of your service, but before you offer it on some other-than-normal basis, make sure you're not taking a loss.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:38 AM): No, Bill, viral marketing definitely does work. Two cases I've done: FrankelBiz and PillowMail

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:38 AM): It will be a wash ... we're charging about 2x the per-ZipProof cost of our cheapest "ZipProof Server" ... but servicing small ($100/month) clients takes an effort.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:39 AM): The servicing is what usually kills you,,,,,

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:39 AM): Here's an example... there's a local printer ... who suggested the $2/per. ZipProof ... and does biz. with Sony et. al.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:40 AM): Viral works when it takes no effort on your part. no intervention. People can pass along an easy convenient solution.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:40 AM): they only need to do 40 to 50 proofs a month ... but the exposure of the ZipProof concept to other companies may be a good thing.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:40 AM): Bill, if you don't want to go nuts, I suggest that you budget it out as an advertising expense from the get-go. That way you won't pull your hair out about whatever it costs and be pleased if it turns a profit.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:41 AM): I think we've been so focused on the $100k/year clients ... that we've missed an enormous opportunity to promote the basic ZipProof concept.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:41 AM): Bill, my experience is to get the leaders and the rest line up like sheep.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:41 AM): Good idea Rob! I agree.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:41 AM): Also, how much branding exposure will your product have if it goes through the small business? Can you rely on them to maintain your brand's presence to Sony?

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:41 AM): We've been chasing the "lead dogs" for a year.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:42 AM): They love the idea, it will save them $million$ ... but they take months and months to sign up.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:42 AM): In one case I'm talking about a $1B/year company that has a fleet of 29 courier vehicles in LA alone.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:42 AM): It does take work, but once you've got me, the rest falls right in.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:43 AM): I agree with Weber on this. About automating the function, if you can do that, you may find that your program actually turns into its own revenue stream. This is what I did with http://www.RobFrankel.com/frankelcall.html....It cut down the response time and boosted sales of FrankelCalls.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:43 AM): They promise decisions ... and then put them off... Sept. 11th I guess

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:43 AM): I'm talking about 9 meetings over 8 months, including the CEO/CIO/CFO of the corporate parent

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:44 AM): The company may have been killed by the "big dog" strategy

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:44 AM): That me was supposed to have been an 'em

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:44 AM): Bill, make sure you're addressing the real issue here....It's your sale process that needs helps closing. You need a sales tool to close them. Do the first job for free to demo the product. IF that doesn't close them they ain't buying,

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:44 AM): I don't have VC $$$ to live off of. So I have to get some movement.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:44 AM): Yes, I should have "given it away

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:45 AM): Bill, I lost four months of pre-marketing/selling to 9/11. Killed the whole year for me. But the 2002 people are lining up.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:45 AM): to this first client. BUT they claimed that money wasn't the issue

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:45 AM): and they were right. The issue is the $500k of computers they have to buy their low-tech sales force.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:45 AM): Better yet, Bill, offer the service to the middlemen who use it at a trial rate of FREE or low-rate. let THEM make more money of the big dogs and they'll be motivated to sell it through because they have the relationship in place.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:46 AM): I admit that I am powerless in the area of sales ... I can't believe how difficult it is to close new tech.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:46 AM): Crossing the Chasm indeed ... more like the Grand Canyon!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:46 AM): Leveraging others' relationships is an often-overlooked tactic.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:47 AM): We did the middleman approach. Not good. You want to sell to the people who use the system ... not a 3rd party

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:47 AM): Bill, sales is always tough. I hate doing it. But I've found there are always ways to make it work.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:47 AM): I want to 'touch' the folks who use this day2day ... not some third party ... typically a dot-com play that

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): starved for $$

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): Well, maybe that's the problem. maybe the middlemen are at work undermining your efforts. After all, who are the big boys going to ask about your product if not their trusted suppliers?

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): Bill, you have to give them a stack of benefits much higher than the amount of money they will spend.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): I LOVE doing sales. BUT I get stuff like this:

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): I LOVE doing sales. BUT I get stuff like this:

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:48 AM): Just looked at your samples. I think it's a great idea. I have no need for

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:49 AM): You know who does GREAT automation in a wholly different aspect? http://www.cafepress.com. I used them for the sweatshirts I gave at my seminar. Excellent. And look -- I'm virally marketing them now!

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:49 AM): Cafe Press ROCKS!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:49 AM): My point is that selling to small and microbusiness is a different -- albeit faster -- track.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:50 AM): Rob, you and I are on the same page...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:50 AM): Ask them why they say that.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:50 AM): Anyone else (don't want to stop, just checking)

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:50 AM): I'm still going after the "big dogs" ... but I'm also going to start marketing to "micro-business"

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:51 AM): It's a PARADIEM shift. The book "Crossing the Chasm" is pretty spot on about this stuff.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:51 AM): Yeah, but Bill, you don't have the $$$ to activate the change.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 9:51 AM): Actually, in the pre sell find out what they need then show how your product fits the need.

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:51 AM): Bill: Glimpsing at your website, you guys need to strip down your message and get to the vein quicker. And if you want to appeal to who I THINK you want to appeal to, you might want to evaluate your visual image a bit more...

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:52 AM): Yes, the website is going to be totally revised around ZipProof ... and I'm going to come up with a real tag line ... if sales are slow ... this is the time to do the WORK that's needed

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:52 AM): As a designer, I personally think your company offers an interesting and valuable service. I just think the wrapper needs to be revamped a bit. There's where your micro-biz rumblings will sprout from...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:53 AM): Yeah, Bill, the site needs work....

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com - Professional Web Tracking) (11/26/2001 9:53 AM): Entered the room.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:53 AM): I don't want a "high overhead" web site .... but I do need to "tell the tale" much MUCH better

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:53 AM): If you're looking to hook up with a capable & effective visual designer, feel free to let me know. I can help you nail those audiences you were mentioning a few minutes ago...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:54 AM): I want to see the benefit right up front. I want to click and make it happen. that's the microbiz/smallbiz tack.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:54 AM): I have quotes from customers ... I need to feature that ... and allow people to sign up and try it for next to nada ... as opposed to a $2k decision.

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:54 AM): And if you're looking for an effective copywriter...*ahem*

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:55 AM): Yeah, but police the offer so that they don't end-run your offer. There's an element there that does nothing but collect "Get out of jail free" cards....

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:55 AM): We need to keep the web overhead to 5kb or so ... we need to be 'Yahoo' and not 'Boo'

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:55 AM): Nice shootin' Jonathan......

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:55 AM): Oh, at $2-per-ZipProof ... they are paying 2x the price of our cheapest dedicated server offering

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:56 AM): Effective design is just that: effective. A good designer can approach it from an end-results perspective, and not a "cool site" venue.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:56 AM): I'm closing a loan today ... my 'golden parachute' is losing my home! Please email me on the copywriting and visual stuff ... so I can get back to you

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:57 AM): My first question is how it differs from attaching a screen capture out of Quark....you don't address that. And I think it's a big question, at least to a newbie like me.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:57 AM): Exactly Rob ... we need to contrast what makes this different ...

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): Good point, Rob. Tell your audience WHY it's better than what they usually do.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): Hey, 10 years ago, I was attaching JPGS of layouts to clients.....Now, if I do creative work, we even show comps in private web sites...

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): It's getting feedback like this: http://www.youworkit.com/servlet/Review/718e6c7f5e1dea9faf0c14

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): Rob/Bill - one way to police the offer is to use a watermark or something that makes it clear it's a trial, but allows full functionality

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 9:58 AM): I'll send you an email in a few, Bill. You've piqued my interest with an interesting challenge... sounds like it would be great to work with you on achieving your goals...

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 9:59 AM): The watermark idea is good. We've been spending the last 2 weeks building the stuff needed to "control" what services are available to users

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (11/26/2001 10:00 AM): Okay, everyone, time to make up for that last week of turkey!

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 10:00 AM): see you Rob - thanks

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com - Professional Web Tracking) (11/26/2001 10:00 AM): See y'all next week!

weber emperorsherbologist.com (11/26/2001 10:00 AM): Later everyone

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 10:01 AM): good luck on the loan, Bill - I will be in touch as well

Ben Woodward (perpetuainteractive.com) (11/26/2001 10:01 AM): Works for me. See most of you guys next week.

Bill Volk (bvolk@youworkit.com) (11/26/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks. Good comments all...

Jonathan (jacohen@damnfinewriting.com) (11/26/2001 10:02 AM): bye all

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 10:02 AM): This is great.. I

Ray Deffry (Ray@iEntry.com) (11/26/2001 10:02 AM): I'll see you next Monday :)

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