Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic November 30, 1998

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:00 AM): Greetings, guys...

Mary (11/30/98 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:01 AM): Happy good morning to everyone!

Tasha (11/30/98 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:01 AM): So...what's on everyone's minds this morning?

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:02 AM): I'd like to talk about how to create a brand ME

Mary (11/30/98 9:03 AM): I would like to know more about the major search engine deal

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:03 AM): Okay, Jo Anna, you start... (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Marianne (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Well, I'm working with this volunteer group, and they discourage you marketing yourself...

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Major Search Engine Deal

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:04 AM): Mary, let's make sure that we give people enough time to show up on the search engine deal. Let's give them 20 minutes to arrive...

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:04 AM): but this is a VERY easy way for me to prove that I can do stuff, to EXACTLY my target audience

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:05 AM): FIRST LESSON, JoAnna, is that branding is about leadership. Second lesson is that sheep follow because they are afraid to lead.

Marianne (11/30/98 9:05 AM): Rob, I'm trying to pound branding into the minds of some old radio guys this week. Got any good opening jokes?

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:06 AM): how can I market myself subtly, without being too ostentatious?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:06 AM): Of course, being a leader doesn't mean you have to be obnoxious about it. But you DO have to be a leader

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:06 AM): sheep follow - how I got to be president of this group!

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:07 AM): Remember that branding is about getting your prospects to see you as the ONLY solution to their problem. That can be done discreetly. Don't confuse branding with advertising.

Scottm (11/30/98 9:07 AM): Rob, what did you think of (tom peters / Fast Company website)

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:08 AM): ooh, I read that FC thing, too. it was interesting.

Mary (11/30/98 9:08 AM): Can personal branding then be directly related to setting yourself up as an expert in your field?

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:08 AM): As I explain what I do (hr for small companies) I tell them that I'm the only company that works with SMALL companies...

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:08 AM): One of the easiest ways to brand flows from niching yourself very finely. That way you become a specialist to whom other generalists refer business...

Marianne (11/30/98 9:08 AM): As "the" expert

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:09 AM): ...there are a LOT of consultancies that work with large companies

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:10 AM): is a step in the right direction, but it's not in touch with the people who need it most. It's a nice publicity schtick, but I don't see much value there.

Mary (11/30/98 9:11 AM): But what if one of your major selling points is that you have expertise in many areas (one-stop "shopping")?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:11 AM): Yes, when you become an expert, people seek you out -- including other professionals in your field. With as many niches as there are, there's lots of room for niched experts.

Scottm (11/30/98 9:12 AM): Mary, you could position yourself as a "process" expert instead of an industry or specialty.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:12 AM): The keys in establishing a brand are credibility and value. People need to believe you can help them -- and then you have to deliver that help, in spades.

Marianne (11/30/98 9:12 AM): ..i.e.: say what you what you say?

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:13 AM): Mary, you could market 2-3 of your greatest talents that relate to others.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:13 AM): Jo Anna, big companies hire consultants because they are well-niched and expert in fields that are outside the companies' domain.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:14 AM): For instance, I am a web developer and Internet Consultant. Fields which overlap with Internet Marketing, Search Engine Positioning, etc.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:14 AM): Marianne, say what you do than do MORE than what you say...

Marianne (11/30/98 9:14 AM): bravo! Deliver ...deliver more

John Charlesworth (11/30/98 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:15 AM): my new explanation for what I do is "I'm like a CPA, but for HR stuff. You need a specialist for your taxes, same with HR"

Mary (11/30/98 9:15 AM): My skills and talents are similar -- graphic design, editing, desktop publishing, Web development, advertising

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:15 AM): See, people think that all they have to do is set up a brand and they're done. But that's only half the deal. The real kick comes in delivering real benefits to the people who buy into your brand.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:16 AM): (of course, I'm much more eloquent...)

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:16 AM): buy into: AYE, there's the rub.

Marianne (11/30/98 9:16 AM): JoAnna, you are the best at finding the most talented employees etc...

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:17 AM): JoAnna, With all the ADA and liability issues, your branding issues should go beyond that CPA thing. Way beyond. There must be something about the WAY you handle your business that sets you apart from the pack. Something that is client-based and meaningful to them.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:17 AM): HR is not just recruiting...I do compliance and "employer of choice" primarily

Mary (11/30/98 9:18 AM): I get over half my business from clients who had someone else design their Website or newsletter first, were dissatisfied and came to me. How can I exploit this in branding?

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:18 AM): my brand is about giving small companies the resources of larger companies for a fraction of the cost

Scottm (11/30/98 9:19 AM): JoAnna, would you say that your an expert in the "process of HR organization"

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:19 AM): I find that you can't build a really strong brand without exploring your target audience and identifying their major wants and needs. Then play to them with the resources you have in a compelling way. It builds your credibility, which is often enough to

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:20 AM): ScottM: YES. precisely. I t doesn't roll off the tongue well, though!

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:20 AM): "Low Cost" is a very dangerous positioning, JoAnna. It makes people undervalue your services. You should be charging the same rates (or maybe slightly less) and offering more attention and service...

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:20 AM): Of course, you have to believe you're worth the higher rates, which is not as easy as it sounds. emotionally speaking.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:21 AM): I charge the same, but I'm not a full-time employee in their company, which makes it a more attractive proposition

Marianne (11/30/98 9:21 AM): Or...charge a lot more. You know what they say, you get what you pay for.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:21 AM): The single most difficult matter I have with clients is getting them to accept the brands I create for them. They have a tough time accepting their new leadership roles....emotionally.

Mary (11/30/98 9:22 AM): Basically, JoAnna is working as a freelance HR director, right?

Scottm (11/30/98 9:22 AM): So JoAnna, you could position yourself like "Leave the HR to the experts" kinda thing (I'm not eloquent at all)

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:22 AM): Yes, Mary. Just exactly that! (11/30/98 9:22 AM): I try to build into all my estimates the ability for me to give upfront drop everything service to my new customers, give more out of the gate than they'd ever expect

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:22 AM): Low cost is not the way to go as a consultant. When I jus did web page development on the side, I used to charge $20/hour and provided maybe $50 worth of service. I now charge $65 and try to provide $100 worth of service. I get a lot more clients now, never undervalue your services!!!

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:23 AM): Once the public reacts to the new brand, however, things go off like a Roman candle. But accepting change can be tough.

John Charlesworth (11/30/98 9:23 AM): Rob, given that part of your "branding definition" included "delivering MORE than you say", how do you approach potential clients who may never have heard of you (say, via a search engine)?

Mary (11/30/98 9:23 AM): So, relate it to something that people understand -- like freelance artists.

Mary (11/30/98 9:24 AM): Muhammad, you are so right! And, I might add that you should never do anything for free.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:24 AM): Well, John, first off, I don't approach clients. I get my business by referral or off the web. And most people who find me on the web have already toured my site extensively, so they're really calling to do business. The only thing my site doesn't communicate is rate structure.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:25 AM): By the time they call, they already understand my philosophy and approach and are really wondering if I'm for real. One conversation (usually about 15 minutes) is about all it takes.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:26 AM): The only thing my site doesn't communicate, incidentally, is rate structure.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:26 AM): Its a funny thing, I just got a client last week who wanted a lot of work before the contract was signed. I told him I couldn't do that much without getting paid. After all I am not in the business of providing free consulting services. He E-mailed me back almost immediately and told me he was Fed Ex'ing $ to cover initial consulting.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:26 AM): how DOES one communicate that??

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:27 AM): Okay, I promised to talk about our new sponsor today, so let me keep my promise.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:28 AM): Starting tomorrow, the FrankelBiz main sponsor is going to be GOTO.COM, the pay per click search engine. They've started us off with TWO programs, but I think we can get a third next month.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:28 AM): I did the initial research and he's ready to sign the rest of the contract. Every time I tell a client that if they want more they have to pay, they always do. SO the lesson here is never give stuff away for free. If they don't want to pay for their business, why should I invest time in it.

Mary (11/30/98 9:29 AM): Tell us more!

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:29 AM): If you aren't familiar with GoTo.Com, it's a pay per click search engine, where you list your site and only pay when a searcher actually clicks through to your site.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:30 AM): Muhammad - any possibility I could chat with you (icq or aol) later?

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:30 AM): I forgot all about that, this last week has been so hectic... OK Rob Spill it!!

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:31 AM): I originally got paid $100 and it costs me 1¢ every time someone clicks from and goes directly to my site. That's 10,000 clicks before I have to re-charge my account.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:31 AM): JoAnna drop me a line... I'll send you my ICQ number.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:32 AM): The minimum you pay GoTo.Com is $25 to get started. They hand pick who gets in and which slime bags stay out, so it's quickly becoming the cleanest search engine out there.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:33 AM): So now, they have offered us TWO deals: First, if you advertise on GOTO.COM, they're offering FrankelBees an extra 20% of free clickthroughs. Which means for $25, you get $30 worth of clicks.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:34 AM): The second program is that they'll pay 2¢ per person for every person who searches GOTO.COm from YOUR site (they provide the button and HTML for you to paste on your page).

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:35 AM): The details are listed at

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:36 AM): Does anyone feel it detracts from the professionalism of the site if you advertise on your home-page?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:36 AM): This is a great time to start working with them, because Goto.Com is launching a big offline/online ad campaign.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:36 AM): I use link exchange only, no other buttons or click-thru's

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:37 AM): Jo Anna, who said it should go on your home page? And it certainly is more professional than LE banners!

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:37 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:37 AM): It depends on your business, but if your business to business I would say no.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:38 AM): I mean yes, business to business should not have advertising on their web sites.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:38 AM): I am also working on a third program for us, but that will take a bit longer.

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:38 AM): (rest assured, I don't think that link exchange's banners are all that professional... but I put it up and I haven't taken it off ...that's all)

Scottm (11/30/98 9:39 AM): Rob, are they doing customized results screens like the Lycos and IBN programs?

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:39 AM): What are Goto's decision rules for who or who does not do business with them?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:39 AM): The question is not how professional you look, but how you position the banner/button. If it's on a "resource" page that serves an exit page anyway, you haven't lost anything at all.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:39 AM): Granted, I do have a network solutions search box on my web page. But I think it relates to my customer needs, it enhances the site if anything.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:40 AM): Goto's listing criteria are wide ranging. They're particularly strong in limiting the keywords under which you advertise. Even if you want to buy one, if it's not appropriate for you, they won't sell it to you.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:41 AM): Muhammed, I am in the process of putting an internic button on my page, as well.

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:42 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:42 AM): Good Morning Nancy

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:42 AM): Hello, All -- sorry I'm late getting here..

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:42 AM): Scott, the resulting searches on GoTo.Com are -- by definition -- as finely tuned as you can get, because they're far more professional about how they accept their listings.

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:42 AM): It sounds like a great deal Rob. Thanks for setting it up.

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:43 AM): Morning Muhammad, Rob and another Big Planet, Scottm?

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:43 AM): Its a good idea, after all your domain name is the first step in BRANDING your company on the net. (11/30/98 9:43 AM): Entered the room. (11/30/98 9:43 AM): Sorry I'm late, too.

Scottm (11/30/98 9:43 AM): I was meaning with our own logos and some buttons, etc. The Lycos and IBM programs do that.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:43 AM): But let's not overlook the fact that GOTO.COm will be driving OFFLINE media (radio and outdoor) across America. people on the web will be searching for them because they'll have heard about GOTO on the air.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:44 AM): Scott, I haven't checked that out. But I will before I announce it in tomorrow's newsletter. (11/30/98 9:45 AM): Are we discussing directories?

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:45 AM): This sounds GREAT! I only mention it because when I see a page that has a lot of banner-exchanges, it gives me a funny feeling. One or two is not a big deal, three makes me nervous, and I might click off.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:45 AM): Anyway, I don't want to hog all the time on this, and there will be a formal announcement tomorrow about it.

John Charlesworth (11/30/98 9:45 AM): Rob, looks great. But could you clarify something? Program #1 says that if you buy at least $25, they'll credit you with an extra $5. Is it still $5 if you spend $100? Or is it 20% regardless of amount (over $25)??

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:45 AM): Unless anyone has other questions about it...

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:46 AM): Last I heard it was 20%, but I will clarify that by tomorrow as well. Any other questions? (11/30/98 9:46 AM): I wanted to talk about some RESULTS gotten off participating on this site...

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:47 AM): Go ahead Laurie...

Scottm (11/30/98 9:47 AM): Rob, I emailed you my phone number if you want the scoop on the Lycos and IBM stuff (negotiating armor) (11/30/98 9:48 AM): be right back

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:48 AM): Thanks Scott. I really want the FrankelBees to show Goto.Com what we're made of... (11/30/98 9:48 AM): I hooked up with Dan Miller of through the FrankelBee stuff, and he has done a great job taking dynamic with MS Access and cold fusion.

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:48 AM): I wouldn't mind the scoop too, (

Scottm (11/30/98 9:49 AM): Nancy - Kind've like Big Planet... But much more involved with our customers. Value Added Oriented.

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:49 AM): Laurie, I can give you an example. I have used Bob Garber's Register2win service to get more viewers to my site. I learned about Bob from FrankelBiz. I can attest that his program brought over 5000 visitor to my site in one month and increased my customer base.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:49 AM): One other thing I should mention is that GOTO.COm is an IdeaLab company. Same folks who bring you PeopleLink and E-Toys, which means we're in line for some cross-benefits. In fact, I just got a 15% coupon at E-Toys for being a PeopleLink subscriber...

Scottm (11/30/98 9:49 AM): Have two people here helping with some marketing I'm doing, and have a potential coop deal working (not bad for one days participation)

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:50 AM): Scott, have you been able to use DWPB much for your clients? (11/30/98 9:50 AM): We now have a live online auction of trips and products for the Sunshine Coast, and capture ALL incoming info (forms, inquiries, contest entries etc) into a scalable database capable of generating meaningful reports and recommendations to my local tourism community. It has increased my company's profile here exponentially.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:50 AM): Laurie, why not give Dan a plug by posting a THANK YOU note to the list?

Bob Garber - (11/30/98 9:50 AM): Entered the room.

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:51 AM): Laurie, I'm getting chills! That's exactly why I formed this list.

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:51 AM): Hi, Everybody

Bob Garber - (11/30/98 9:51 AM): Scott, thanks for the plug. Glad it's working so well for you! (11/30/98 9:51 AM): Definitely. I've given him an even bigger thank you by sending him 4 additional database jobs in a month. It's a great partnership and brings my clients the best of everything. I'm here in BC and Dan is in Tennessee.

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:52 AM): Nancy, the Dynamic Web Page is ideal for small businesses and is becoming more popular. It is very versatile for the $599 website price.

Scottm (11/30/98 9:52 AM): Nancy.. Data with Peanut Butter? (don't know that acronym)

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:52 AM): It can be a RESULTS/THANK YOU, too....

JoAnna @ (11/30/98 9:52 AM): Hello, Koit!

Scottm (11/30/98 9:52 AM): OOPS... Yes Nancy, Have been implementing a new site just for that.

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:53 AM): Rob, my message to the list was bounced?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:53 AM): The point is to let the rest of the list know how well the list worked for you. That's what will crank our productivity

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:53 AM): OOPS

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:53 AM): (SEVEN MINUTE WARNING)

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:54 AM): Oh sorry, Scott -- thought you were the Big Planet guy! DWPB is BP's Dynamic Web Page Builder

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:54 AM): Koit, did you send it to

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:54 AM): Yes. (11/30/98 9:55 AM): Am I correct, if I say the DWPB is $599 per site?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:55 AM): Koit, chances are you sent your post from an e-mail address OTHER THAN the e-mail address with which you subscribed. They have to be the same.

Bob Garber - (11/30/98 9:55 AM): Hey Rob... what about putting up a results page where we can all read about each others successes and tap into them if we like?

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:56 AM): DWPB is BP's Dynamic Web Page Builder. this lag comes from a server error.

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:56 AM): Yes, DWP is only $599 and no need to know HTML to set up your site. It is wizard driven

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:56 AM): Anyway, I'll try once more. Sorry for critics. I really appreciate the FrankelBees home (11/30/98 9:56 AM): what is the URL for the DWPB?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:56 AM): Bob, I thought about that, but that would decrease the interactivity of the list. I want to keep the FrankelBees interacting with each other. That's the key...especially with the development under construction right now...

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 9:57 AM):

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:57 AM): Koit, if you still have trouble, send me your e-mail addresses and we'll straighten it out from here. (11/30/98 9:58 AM): Thanks, I will take a look.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:58 AM): Guy, I am looking for it. If you want more info, you can reach me at We have our own ISP also.

Koit Jatsa (11/30/98 9:58 AM): Thanks, Rob

Big Planet (11/30/98 9:58 AM): Guy, the URL for basic information is (11/30/98 9:58 AM): I have my own server is that a problem, or do I have to host the DWP at your server. (11/30/98 9:59 AM): Entered the room. (11/30/98 9:59 AM): Netscape crashed. Sorry... I just wanted to say *sob* thanks, guys, you're all great! I appreciate the advice and the support!

Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 9:59 AM): Test

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:00 AM): Yes it is a problem. Big Planet is not set up transfer other sites at this time. You will have to set up your own DWP site.

RobFrankel (11/30/98 10:01 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online! (11/30/98 10:01 AM): I will read the information on the website, thanks.

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 10:01 AM): Guy, I also have my own ISP, but access BP through the net. But you can link into it.

Scottm (11/30/98 10:01 AM): Appointments abound... See you all later.

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:01 AM): Nancy, just curious, where did you learn about the DWP?

RobFrankel (11/30/98 10:01 AM): Okay, you guys, I've gotta run. But you are most welcome to continue as long as you want. You can also use this site to meet any time you like during the week. See you online! (11/30/98 10:02 AM): oh, link to the DWP content, sort of like a subweb of my domain?

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 10:02 AM): Rob, thanks a lot for your generosity!

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:02 AM): Thanks again Rob.

C-ya Rob (11/30/98 10:03 AM): Entered the room.

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:03 AM): Guy, that is a possibility.

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 10:03 AM): Yes, Guy; BigPlanet -- I'm a BP rep, too. They're rapidly accelerating the number of local POP's (750 Plus), but I don't have one nearby yet.

C-ya Rob (11/30/98 10:03 AM): Muhammad Lee (11/30/98 10:04 AM): Thanks, got to go for now, next week will try to be on time, these are busy days.

C-ya Rob (11/30/98 10:05 AM): Gotta go, Joanna I will contact you by ICQ Later,

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:05 AM): Guy, if you would like to see some commercial DWP sites, go to and hit the DWP sites link on the left hand side. This will provide about 14 DWP sites currently active (11/30/98 10:05 AM): Entered the room.

C-ya Rob (11/30/98 10:05 AM): Talk to you later, Nancy, thanks again for the web site copy!! (11/30/98 10:05 AM): okay, ciao!

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 10:05 AM): Muhammad, did you get to look over the site edit yet (11/30/98 10:06 AM): Logging off on purpose, now. Have a GREAT week, everyone!

Big Planet (11/30/98 10:06 AM): I have to go too. Nancy, if you have a chance, send me an email at and we can chat.

Nancy Lee (11/30/98 10:07 AM): Great meeting you all. Yes, I'd like that BP. mine is

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