Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic December 6, 1999

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:00 AM): Greetings, Rob!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:01 AM): Duuuuudes! and Dudettes! Greetings!

Andy TeBockhorst (12/6/99 9:01 AM): Whasup, mon?

Bill ( (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Big week....this is the week I upgrade all my machines, from iMacs to PowerBooks....

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Andy TeBockhorst (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Takin' the word to the streets, Rob?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Hi Walter! Just posted your notice this morning...

Kieran (12/6/99 9:02 AM): Things here are really getting interesting, thanks Terri.

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Hello - long time no see Bob, looking forward to meet you in LA!

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Hi, everyone.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Hi Wanda! How come you e-mail address always gets invalidated on the list?

Kieran (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Hey Rob, How are you?

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Go Mac! I have both but my Macs rule.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:03 AM): Wanda, you going to Abraham's conference? or just coming to L.A.?

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:03 AM): I am SOOOORRRY - Rob (did I ACTUALLY said Bob? ouch!)

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Hi Wanda! hello Walter!

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): yes, I will be there

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Hi Kieran....hopping, man. VERY busy this time of year, which is weird....

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): I mean I will be at the conference - actually invited :-)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Wanda, you will be sent a Bob eating virus for that infraction...

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Hello Terri - so many friendly faces

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Hi, Terri. Thanks for the welcome. My first time here.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:04 AM): Weird?? Pre Christmas is always hopping here...

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:05 AM): Really? In the USA, people are always going on vacation or putting off stuff until after January 1.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:05 AM): Is kristy a newbie as well?

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:05 AM): a Bob eating virus - I'm sorry, didn't get it (I am a bit slow sometimes ;-)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:05 AM): Walter, anything specific to talk about? We always give the new guy first crack....

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:06 AM): I don't know that Kristy is still here...

Kieran (12/6/99 9:06 AM): As you can Imagine the Weather here isn't really conducive to Xmas breaks

Wanda Loskot ( (12/6/99 9:06 AM): aaah - got - it -- yes, I deserve to be scolded, and evicted from the room (but please don't, I will behave now, Rob))

Kieran (12/6/99 9:06 AM): Doesn't look like it but her name is still registered

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:07 AM): Hey, thanks, Rob. I'm trying to find some people I can interview (brief Q&A) for our site on various creative business topics.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:07 AM): That's just because the HTML script doesn't refresh as honestly as it should.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:07 AM): What kind of people specifically? I expect your post will get a lot of response...

Andy TeBockhorst (12/6/99 9:08 AM): Walter, is live? I couldn't call it up.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:08 AM): Our server is being serviced today (of all days), Andy. We'll be back up tonight (they said)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:09 AM): Let me know what the requirements are...I might do it to help out.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:09 AM): Most of the people who come to our site are entrepreneurs and/or creative people who want to discuss their ideas, Rob.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:09 AM): Your server is down and you posted today? Ugh! Not good timing there, sport. (12/6/99 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:10 AM): Wanda hosts chats like this. I did one of hers a while ago. I also did one for Bob Serling, which he now sells as a tape with his book.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:11 AM): No, Rob, it's not great timing, but I just found out about your site last week, and I couldn't wait to jump in.

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:11 AM): hi JoAnna! (12/6/99 9:11 AM): Good morning, my lovelies. How is everyone?!

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Entered the room.

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Hi JoAnna. Walter, what products/services do you offer?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Well, keep in mind that people tend to sniff out your site before they respond, so you may want to post another notice when the server is up and healthy.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Gee, JoAnna, nice of you to roll out of bed and sneak us in between pop tarts...

Kieran (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Terri, you're in recruitment right?

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Hey, Rob, if you could help us out, I'd really appreciate that. (12/6/99 9:12 AM): Wow! What a crowd in here this morning!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:13 AM): Arnie! Welcome! Jump in with a business issue any time! We encourage the newest people to go first! (12/6/99 9:13 AM): Anything I can do to help, Rob. Pop tarts, anyone?

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:13 AM): Yes Kieran - I specialize in sales and marketing professionals

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:13 AM): Walter, just let me know where and when and I'll do what I can to try and kick start this with you.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:13 AM): Yancey, we don't really sell any products. We're trying to provide a place for creative thinkers to come and discuss new ways to do business.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:14 AM): Is the Net a preferred channel for you??

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:14 AM): Great, Rob. I'll email you the questions, and then you can email the answers back at your convenience. Thanks (12/6/99 9:15 AM): I've got my priorities, you know.... Dog, Coffee, Pop Tarts

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:15 AM): The Net is where I do most of my business, Kieran

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:15 AM): Arnie -- you there pal? Introduce yourself and save me from all this banter!

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:15 AM): Hi All, My first visit. Heard Rob speak at the Internet Professionals meeting in Pasadena and thought I'd check this out. Enjoyed the talk Rob.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:15 AM): Rob, about 45 minutes ago, I posted a question to your list. I just checked my email: FOUR offers of help already. I'm impressed. (12/6/99 9:15 AM): Does anyone use press releases for the purpose advertising?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:15 AM): Kieran, for the record, I now get roughly 85% of ALL my business from the web. But it took a lot of doing and time.

Marc (12/6/99 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:16 AM): Thanks, Arnie. Walter, we're serious. Fun but serious. You won't find a more supportive group anywhere -- or any more ethical.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:16 AM): Welcome, Arnie

Kieran (12/6/99 9:16 AM): I love the Added Value features on the site. Do you track registered users in any way?

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:17 AM): JoAnna, didn't understand your question about press releases.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:17 AM): Marc -- welcome! And jump right in with any business issue you have.

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:17 AM): JoAnna, press releases posted to your site have done very well in the search engines. (12/6/99 9:17 AM): Rob, you've got another Groupie! Welcome Arnie. I'm a member of IPN, too!

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:17 AM): JoAnna, I use press releases along with a lot of other advertising methods

Marc (12/6/99 9:17 AM): Rob, what's the deal with mailing lists? Overpriced and in my experience, largely ineffective. Any tips on purchasing lists? Any books or other resources that will help us avoid getting screwed again?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:18 AM): First, Marc, are you talking e-mail lists or offline lists?

Andy TeBockhorst (12/6/99 9:18 AM): Joanna, I use press releases frequently. Mainly to trade publications. I am always working to get our company name out in front of the industry and position us as an authority on our business. (12/6/99 9:18 AM): I'm considering doing a focused press releases when I add new features to my website or "products" to my repertoire.

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:18 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:19 AM): Good Morning

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:19 AM): Hi Muhammad! Long time no see! (12/6/99 9:19 AM): Muhammad! Glad to see you could make it! (see Rob, I'm not the last of the old regime to come)

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:20 AM): I've been very very very very busy, thankfully my to do list today isn't over a page!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:20 AM): Marc? You there? You talking about online or offline mailing lists?

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:20 AM): JoAnna, let me know if you need any advice on press releases. I just did a free workshop on publicity, and will be glad to help out.

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:20 AM): JoAnna, from everything I read, you should use press releases only if you have "news" to report - that readers will find valuable - and definitely don't make it look like an ad!

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:21 AM): Good morning JoAnna & Terri how are my favorite HR people?

Kieran (12/6/99 9:21 AM): What I'm trying to get at Terri, is how important is it to you to track graduates with a view to future business?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:21 AM): You guys wanna know the #1 secret to getting press releases published?

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:21 AM): Well if Mark has disappeared....I have branding/company name question....

Marc (12/6/99 9:21 AM): Thanks Rob, actually both. But I'll limit it to just offline. Ya' know, traditional DM-type marketing.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:21 AM): Sure, Rob...What is it?

Kieran (12/6/99 9:22 AM): My own background is in Journalism and I can tell you a well scripted Press release is a hacks dream

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:22 AM): The #1 secret in press releases is...NOT PLUGGING YOURSELF SHAMELESSLY!

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:22 AM): My company name is the Advanced Design Group.....however all my clients and most of my associates refer to my firm as ADG Consulting.....should I just officially change the name? (12/6/99 9:23 AM): I'm going to take you up on that, Walter!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:23 AM): Marc, chances are that 1. You didn't purge the list properly 2. You didn't mail enough times 3. You scrimped on what you sent.

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:23 AM): I haven't gotten a check or a piece of mail from a client that said: "advanced design group" in months....

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:23 AM): Doing great Muhammad! Kieran, my focus isn't on "graduates" actually - mainly because my clients want expertise in their field. Not to say that won't become important to me in the future, of course!

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:23 AM): A very fine point, Rob.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:23 AM): The biggest mistakes people make in Dm is thinking it's a cheap way out. But it's actually quite expensive, only paying out when invested properly.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:24 AM): I see Terri, sorry about the grilling it's just that I'm working on a proposal for a recruitment firm.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:24 AM): JoAnna, email me any time, and we'll talk.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:24 AM): Muhammad, your answer is in your e-mail address.... (12/6/99 9:24 AM): Do you think it's worth it to have an info page that I can refer the "hacks" to... with photos, quotes, Q&A's, and the like?

Marc (12/6/99 9:25 AM): Okay, I can admit to maybe being a wee bit wet behind the ears. Where would you suggest I look for solid advice? List brokers remind me of leisure-suited used car salesmen. What books or on-line resources would you suggest?

Muhammmad( (12/6/99 9:25 AM): Entered the room.

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:25 AM): Kieran, no problem! You can e-mail me any time - I'll be happy to help wherever I can :)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:25 AM): Muhammad, keep both, but transition to ADG. This is what I did three years ago, starting from to

Jeff (12/6/99 9:25 AM): Entered the room.

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:26 AM): JoAnna, an info page is very helpful. However, you have to realize that a lot of reporters are not quite as Internet savvy as you might think.

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:26 AM): I need to be pointed in the right direction. I have spent the last 4 years evangelizing the web to the SoCal Apparel industry. I have developed sites and provide webmaster services for the major California Apparel trade associations as well as other industry businesses. (see & I actually make a living at this but now I am developing a business plan for taking ApparelLink to the next level. I don't know what would be the best approach to look for partners. Any suggestions?

Muhammmad( (12/6/99 9:26 AM): sigh, got booted....anyway thanks......I like the name Advanced Design...seems better for an "Interactive Agency"...but if people are calling me ADG Consulting......

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:26 AM): You are correct, Marc. List brokers will sell you lists. I would start by looking for a DM consultant -- no kidding. These people are specialists and well worth their money. Don't do it yourself.

Muhammmad( (12/6/99 9:26 AM): Hmm.....that’s a very good idea.....

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:27 AM): Muhammad, way to go in getting the domain.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:27 AM): Well I would always assume that Media and Analysts are a component part of your Target Audience, so Yes. Hacks love the easy life. Only last month I mailed responses to a journalist in one of the Sunday nationals, only to pick up the paper and find that I had written 3/4 of the Article..

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:27 AM): I mean, what's the big deal Muhammad? You point both URL's to your site, but emphasize the one you want. Gradually, they transition over. (12/6/99 9:27 AM): Marc, I've not personally used a list, but in my research about purchasing one, I've heard you've got to send from it 6 or more times to get a good response. One shot lists are useless. Can I get an amen on that, anyone?

Marc (12/6/99 9:28 AM): Okay, that's the first time I've ever heard that idea, but I like it. As specialized as business is, why not seek out a DM specialist. Where would you find one? And again, any resources or pubs you'd suggest reading?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:28 AM): However, let me tell you this: web stats show that only this last October did hits for "" take the lead of F&A....indicating just how massive the web is.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:28 AM): Sing it sister!!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:29 AM): Sure, JoAnna. If I do a DM campaign, I make sure we purge the list hard, then send three different pieces to the same list, within two weeks .

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:29 AM): true, just want to make sure the name conveys what I do.... ADG Consulting sounds like an Outsourcing firm or big 5 type.....but I see your point (12/6/99 9:29 AM): Rob, that's so weird! How long ago did you start the transition?

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:29 AM): Arnie, are you talking about investors or partners?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:29 AM): JoAnna, I began the transition in earnest about two years ago. I wanted to leverage the web's natural "trickle down" dynamics to achieve the goal.

Kieran (12/6/99 9:30 AM): Ok gotta go Guy's. See Y'all next week.

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:30 AM): I'm thinking more in terms of investors.

Marc (12/6/99 9:30 AM): Okay, great. Thanks Rob and JoAnna for the info. But please don't tell me no one's written anything that would help ease this process! (12/6/99 9:31 AM): ARNIE - EMAIL ME OFF LIST! I've got a good press oppty for you! in fact , the reason why I was asking about the press releases is I'm hosting an HR guy from Zimbabwe for a breakfast mixer. (12/6/99 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:31 AM): Marc, there's no shortage of books on this, but I have none I would recommend, mainly because they're written by people interested in furthering their own business.

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:31 AM): Bye Kieran! See you next week - email me if you like (12/6/99 9:31 AM): he's in the retail clothing industry

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:32 AM): Arnie, are you trying to centralize the apparel industry?

Walter Dawson ( (12/6/99 9:32 AM): Work has reared its ugly head -- have to go. But I'll certainly be back...bye

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:32 AM): Hi Greg! Jump on in with your business issue! We try to let the new people go first!

Marc (12/6/99 9:33 AM): Rob, what about on-line lists? Any company you like? Or would you suggest coordination with the aforementioned DM consultant?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:34 AM): No marc, there are some good opt-in e-mail lists, but you have to be careful there, too. REAL opt-ins work great! You have to seek them out and make sure they're not packed with dummy names.

Kat ( (12/6/99 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

Jeff (12/6/99 9:35 AM): Marc you can expect to spend about 25 cents a name from the more credible opt-in email list providers. (12/6/99 9:35 AM): Hi Rob, I'm launching a frozen food business to an untapped market.

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:35 AM): Marc, I subscribe to postings from and

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:35 AM): Marc,, , and are all good

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:36 AM): Greg, frozen food? Sounds can I help?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:36 AM): Entered the room.

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:36 AM): Hmmm...... you might want to try Post Master Direct ( and you might want to try Penn Media ( the later company is fairly inexpensive.....not to mention the fact that they're FrankelBees......

Jeff (12/6/99 9:36 AM): Marc, in my last newsletter I provided a listing of ezine advertising resources. Email me OFF LIST if you'd like a copy (

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:36 AM): Yes, Postmaster Direct is huge.

Marc (12/6/99 9:37 AM): Great, I'll check 'em out. Thanks again to Rob for sponsoring this forum and answering our questions. Three lines lit, gotta go. Take care, all.

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:37 AM): Actually, yes. My site will give you a better sense of my background. I have many years' experience within the industry and have been building sites for over four years. I know of no one else in the industry equipped to do what I plan.

Marc (12/6/99 9:37 AM): Okay, Jeff I'll do that.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:37 AM): Hi Everyone,, Ellen from NJ!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:37 AM): Arnie, I remember talking with you. I have a proposal into a major client that could vault you into the space you need.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:38 AM): Doing this yourself could be very tough, Arnie. You may want to leverage someone else's technology whose in the vertical portal space. (12/6/99 9:38 AM): Hi, Ellen

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:39 AM): Hi Ellen...Jump right in with any business issue you've got. We try to let the first timers go first.

Marc (12/6/99 9:40 AM): Thanks to you too, Yancey.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:40 AM): ok,, so there are perks to being a newbie! :) I am looking to get my soap products out there,, in stores and web sites (12/6/99 9:40 AM): I'm sure you could do you have any advice my product is geared towards fitness minded people.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:40 AM): also I see a recruiter in here,, I have a hubby who has a CPA is looking around for a job soon!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:41 AM): Hmmm, one of our first members was Louise at Do you know her? (12/6/99 9:41 AM): I went to and thought it had to do with Frozen Food...but it's a web design/hosting company!

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:41 AM): I don't know. I'm pretty dialed in to database management and have been fooling around with "Commerce Server". Of course I'm open to anything because momentum in picking up and I don't want to miss this opportunity.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:41 AM): Yes, Greg. One of the top categories on the web is health and fitness, not to mention alternative health sciences. Have you tried hooking up with vitamin sites?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:41 AM): I presently have products in 5 stores in NJ including the Marriott at Newark airport (12/6/99 9:42 AM): is the name

Terri ( (12/6/99 9:42 AM): Ellen, e-mail me off list and tell me more about what your husband is looking for :)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:42 AM): Ellen, you have to make the decision as to whether you want to go into business online or not. Choose a direction and then go with it.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:43 AM): Greg, we have a couple of health and vitamin members on FrankelBiz. You should post a notice there...

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:43 AM): offline is doing better for me.. web site is not selling,, needs marketing more!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:43 AM): And Arnie is a food veteran. He's right here, right now on this chat.

Jeff (12/6/99 9:44 AM): Greg, is delivery of your product geographically limited. Like or Kosmo? (12/6/99 9:44 AM): How do I go about that?

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:44 AM): Ellen, nothing is going to move -- online or off -- if you don't commit full time and budget to the effort. Are you doing that?

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:44 AM): What is unique about your soaps?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:45 AM): leaving my job this month,,,i work non stop at it ,, yes (12/6/99 9:45 AM): no I'm starting out in my local area NY Long Island

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:45 AM): Subscribe to FrankelBiz at http://www.robfrankel/com/frankelbiz/form.html or just hit the button to the left of my name in the top frame here...

Jeff (12/6/99 9:45 AM): Ellen, have you considered offering some kind of trial promotion & pumping it through one of the popular FREE STUFF newsletters?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:45 AM): my soap is unique in packaging and shape etc

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:45 AM): Or. hit the banner at the bottom to go directly to the form

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:46 AM): I make guest soaps that look like gum drops,, stained glass,, and in a margarita glass

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:46 AM): Yes, Ellen, you should consider that PAYING for advertising is done a number of ways. Sometimes it's better to pay with your product in exchange for a partnership with someone else who is already out there.

Yancey @ (12/6/99 9:47 AM): Please contact me offline. We will consider them.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:47 AM): stuff,,,free ads,,,do not work for me so far? (12/6/99 9:47 AM): I'm already a member I just don't know how to post a message stupid huh!

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:47 AM): If you're looking for a freestuff newsletters drop me a line I have contact that runs a huge

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:48 AM): Greg, post to

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:48 AM): Muhammad these ads work for you? (12/6/99 9:48 AM): Thanks

Arnie Wachman (12/6/99 9:48 AM): I don't know. I'm pretty dialed in to database management and have been fooling around with "Commerce Server". Of course I'm open to anything because momentum in picking up and I don't want to miss this opportunity.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:49 AM): I would offer free samples to members of your list Rob.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:49 AM): Arnie, you've got a monumental task ahead of you. If you can walk into a technical partner who has the machine and leverage your expertise, you'll get to market faster. And you just KNOW everyone is trying to be first to market.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:50 AM): You want to take the fastest track to get there.

Jeff (12/6/99 9:50 AM): That should be a good start Ellen, I promoted a newsletter via Rob's list last week and had 50 new subscribers in 3 hours.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:51 AM): Jeff, is this a great group, or what? The FrankelBees are ALL business....

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:51 AM): I don't use them myself...doesn't really apply to my business....but for something like Soap I imagine a free sample would work very well

I agree. That's why I'm here today. I need to get this going. (12/6/99 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

Jeff (12/6/99 9:52 AM): Rob, you've put together a winning service here. Great work.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:52 AM): Ellen, NEVER offer a free sample unless you're getting something for it. Offer an extra "added value", maybe, like an extra bar when they order, or like that. Never give it away for free.

Arnie Wachman ( (12/6/99 9:52 AM): Entered the room.

Arnie Wachman ( (12/6/99 9:52 AM): I agree. That's why I'm here today. I need to get this moving.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:52 AM): ok Rob,, I get you now,,

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:52 AM): ok Rob,, I get you now,,

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:53 AM): I always charge a rate, but there are times when I add extra value with a "no charge". That's just good business.

Dave, LovePoetry(.com) (12/6/99 9:53 AM): Entered the room. (12/6/99 9:53 AM): what's wrong with try before you buy?

Jeff (12/6/99 9:53 AM): But a FREE or "added value" doesn't work if folks don't know about it! You've got to get the offer in front of eyeballs.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:54 AM): I can't overstate the importance of LEVERAGE on the web, especially, folks. For the next year, this will be the high growth strategy. After that, I'm afraid the web will layer out. (12/6/99 9:54 AM): Remember my offer of free job postings: I'm ending my beta on Wednesday...but FrankelBees get it for free, still. Thanks for all the input, everyone.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 9:54 AM): I usually put some free soap in any order for the buyer.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:54 AM): Greg, "try before you buy" works to grab low quality prospects. They grab the free and split.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:55 AM): You want to build our consumer base with serious buyers, not freeloaders. (12/6/99 9:55 AM): If anyone didn't get a chance yet, it's at

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:55 AM): You can still reward them, however, by giving them a credit n their next order -- which spurs sales. Make sure it's a time limited offer, though...

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:56 AM): Rob, what do you mean by layer you?

Kat ( (12/6/99 9:56 AM): I agree, Rob. When you give away what you have to sell you will surely go hungry.

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 9:56 AM): layer out, I mean layer out......

Jeff (12/6/99 9:57 AM): Well, I've a newsletter to wishes everyone! (12/6/99 9:57 AM): not in every biz

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:57 AM): Muhammad, the big convergence happening is that the big monsters that can afford the huge infrastructure are getting built and completed. Makes it harder for the little guy to get in.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:58 AM): The VC's pour bucks into infrastructure, looking for entrepreneurs to license their stuff. They have the muscle to get to market faster.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:59 AM): It doesn't mean we're out of business, but it does mean a layering of "classes" on the web: the "establishment" and the rebels.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Arnie Wachman ( (12/6/99 9:59 AM): Ok Rob. What's the best path to the VC's?

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 9:59 AM): Personally, I'm taking money from the establishment to fund the rebels!

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:00 AM): ok,, Rob then it is just like the real world! UGH!

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 10:00 AM): Arnie, the best path to the VC's is a personal connection and a smart, short business summary. I emphasize the former.

RobFrankel ( (12/6/99 10:00 AM): Hey guys, this was great! I've gotta run, but I'll see you online!

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:00 AM): rebel ,, hooking up with other rebels.. to make an impact (12/6/99 10:00 AM): Rob Free click now - example

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 10:01 AM): Ok, that's what I figured.....I don't quite see the rebel mentality....(maybe it's just me) but I think you're right one with the convergence...the big boys will take over in the next year.....we'll still be around BUT I think a cartel atmosphere will ensue....couple of big boys in each market niche that dominate the field....

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:01 AM): Have fun with your new systems Rob!

Terri ( (12/6/99 10:01 AM): Arnie, check out Dee Powers' site at Lots of great info on VC and some connections there too

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:02 AM): Yancey what do you do?

Arnie Wachman ( (12/6/99 10:02 AM): Thanks Terri

Terri ( (12/6/99 10:02 AM): we "rebels" can still offer something that the big guys can't Muhammad - personal service and attention! *grin*

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:03 AM): Sweetsoaps, sell products in our online store. Email me.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:03 AM): Entered the room.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:04 AM): Yancey.. ok I am also on an artsy site called

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:04 AM): I have been there!

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 10:04 AM): true, I just don't see things as rebels vs. establishment.... I see it as company with a lot of $, small company without.....after all a lot of the biggies started out small.....

Dave, LovePoetry(.com) (12/6/99 10:04 AM): Muhammad, How are you?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:05 AM): look at MaryEllen's Sweet Soaps on,, you will see some of my better things

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 10:05 AM): Good and yourself? (12/6/99 10:05 AM): Goodbye, everyone! Great chat! See you next week, or sooner I hope!

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:05 AM): you will see salt water soaps-look like giant taffy..sweet drop soaps..look like gum drops

Terri ( (12/6/99 10:06 AM): Bye JoAnna! I have to run too - great chat today, Rob and everyone! See you on the Net!

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:06 AM): I have a soap and bath salts in a champagne glass..looks like a fancy cocktail

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:06 AM): I liked the idea of Stained Glass soaps, do you do any rock-like?

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:07 AM): yes I can make soap look like your great aunt if you want,,,HA!

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:08 AM): I can make rock soap,,like a quartz rock,, crystals,, they look REAL!

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:08 AM): I like the gem stone soaps.

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:09 AM): I use the gem stone soaps as a promo for jewelers

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:09 AM): I put a variety of cuts and colors in a satin pouch and jewelers give them as promos to customers

Muhammad ( (12/6/99 10:10 AM): I gotta run Bees.....see you next week.....

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:10 AM): presently working on a line of kids things for a guy from this list,, Steve from nifty

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:11 AM): We are in the process of adding jewelry and other gifts to our store. Be sure to contact me so we can talk..

sweetsoaps (12/6/99 10:12 AM): making some great kid things,, a wand with a star soap on the end,, "bubble wand"

Yancey @ (12/6/99 10:13 AM): Sounds like fun, I've got to run now. Drop me a line.

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