Transcript of Frankel's Free Clinic December 20, 1999

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:00 AM): I was on an article writing marathon last week JoAnna! finished three of them! :)

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:01 AM): Good morning, Rob!

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:01 AM): Greetings, all ye faithful!

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:01 AM): Rob! (12/20/99 9:01 AM): woo hoo! let's post 'em on the WebGrrls list!!

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:01 AM): Entered the room. (12/20/99 9:01 AM): Welcome, benevolent dictator!

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:01 AM): kewl! You want me to send all to you? or how should I do that? (12/20/99 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:02 AM): Well, I know this is supposed to be the dog days of the millennium, but you can see who works for a living and who's off skiing...

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:02 AM): Not me, Andy

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:02 AM): Indeed!

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:02 AM): So who is rickifier and what have you got for us today? We always let the new people go first... (12/20/99 9:02 AM): Greetings from Washington State

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:03 AM): Rob, I'm looking for a little advice in e-mail marketing this morning.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:03 AM): hi Guy and Yancey! (12/20/99 9:03 AM): if they're posted, I'll link to your page...otherwise, email em, and I'll just copy & upload 'em (12/20/99 9:03 AM): (see, R. told ya!)

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:03 AM): They aren't posted yet, JoAnna.. I'll email them to you after chat :) (12/20/99 9:04 AM): I'm using E-Merge, Andy... it's very nice! ( it's Mac only )

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:04 AM): Don't tell me this is turning into a software chat....

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:05 AM): No, but a little quick advice would be much appreciated. (12/20/99 9:05 AM): it's a volatile beast, Rob. (12/20/99 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:05 AM): Rickfier, are you here?

rickfier (12/20/99 9:05 AM): by way of reference, I've spent the last couple of weeks looking into Internet promotion, marketing, advertising, alternative energy and business model sites for an event - which won't come off - and another's business ideas - which may

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:05 AM): well, not that I know of, Rob.. but would like to know your opinion on the best way to set up my own Associate Program *grin*

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:06 AM): Okay, Andy, you go first...

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:06 AM): Okay, Terri, we'll get to you after Andy.

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:06 AM): Basically, I need to send weekly e-mails out to a list of 20,000, and I have no idea where to start!

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:07 AM): Do you already have the 20,000 names?

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:07 AM): Yes, these were participants in my promotion last year at

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:08 AM): There are two ways for you to go: free and paid. The advantage of paid is that you have total control. Free servers carry their own ads.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:08 AM): You can manage your lists for free at ( or I don't recommend it, though, because they intrude on your space with their messages

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:09 AM): I use messagemedia (formerly Revnet), but you really have to keep an eye on them. Sharon Tucci at hosts lists and she's a FrankelBee!

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:09 AM): Entered the room. (12/20/99 9:09 AM): Point of Information- Onelist is joined now into egroups and their processes might change as far as ads go.

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:09 AM): Greetings everyone.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:10 AM): Either way, they give you the advantage of managing the names and allow you to send one message to their server, which blasts it out to your audience.

Ronni (12/20/99 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:10 AM): Thank you, Guy, my man!!!

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:11 AM): Andy, you can upload them to the free service No ads yet put they could start.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:11 AM): I use eGroups and have been very happy with them .. their ad is small and not too intrusive

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:11 AM): Andy, for the $50 per month, or $100, it's well worth controlling your own lists. I don't like anyone else's noses in my biz, plus I want to be sure nobody else has access to my names. (12/20/99 9:11 AM): I agree with Terri, I have egroups manage several lists, does a good job (12/20/99 9:12 AM): I use Onelist, and you can pay to have the ads removed... they're really easy to maintain a list

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:12 AM): Right Yancey. For some reason, I always forget about Topica. (12/20/99 9:12 AM): I have heard, however that Onelist sells/gives name.

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:12 AM): JoAnna, what are you paying Onelist for "no ads"?

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:13 AM): BTW, messagemedia/Revnet gives you three lists for the price of one.

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:13 AM): Web Marketing Today listed a review/comparison (

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:14 AM): Great info Yancey, thanks. (12/20/99 9:14 AM): I'm not paying, myself, but my HR association is paying. hang tight, and let me send an email to the guy in charge....

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:15 AM): Terri, did you have a question?

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:16 AM): Hi guys... sorry, I had a system crash... I hope I didn't miss too many of the answers to my question.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:17 AM): Rob, I want to set up an Associate Program to allow my candidates to refer their friends for a job and get paid a fee if the friend is hired by one of my clients

rickfier (12/20/99 9:17 AM): a good time to confirm: transcript is available , so no keen need to keep contemporaneous notes?

Andy TeBockhorst (12/20/99 9:17 AM): Thanks for the reminder rickfier

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:18 AM): Do you know of any place that I can do that with? (12/20/99 9:18 AM): Terri, did you ever look at my referral page on my VermillionHR site?

RobFrankel ( (12/20/99 9:18 AM): (JoAnna isn't paying herself. Goes Dutch on dates, too)

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:19 AM): I probably have at some time, JoAnna.. but I'll check it again.. do you pay fees to them too? (12/20/99 9:19 AM): I'd gladly split the check for another big dish of pasta at Sisley with you, Rob!

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:19 AM): Entered the room. (12/20/99 9:19 AM): I pay money when I get paid. there's a minimum and a limit and all the good stuff.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:19 AM): Sorry, got kicked off. Terri, what did you want to discuss? (12/20/99 9:20 AM): anyone interested:

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:20 AM): Some good Associate Program places that will give me the scripts, etc to have my own program for candidate referrals

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:21 AM): Yikes, Terri, why would you want to start your own thing when you can buy it off the shelf from BeFree or whoever?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:21 AM): Are you talking about associates or affiliates? (12/20/99 9:22 AM): looks like a good place to start.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:22 AM): What exactly do you want the program to do?

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:22 AM): For web site referrals you can use the recently bought out by Microsoft ClickTrade. Double yikes!

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:22 AM): I don't necessarily want to create my own.. but "I" want to have one from somewhere that will allow me to track the referrals and pay the person who refers the friend

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:23 AM): Isn't it just as simple to create separate URL's that are customized for each person and then check it from there? Seems the cheapest way, unless you're expecting mega volume.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:23 AM): thanks Guy.. that does look good!

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:24 AM): I use them for ads that I run on (12/20/99 9:24 AM): My friend in Chicago says check Commission Junction is his recommendation for an affiliate program, he sells online shopping so he uses it quite a lot.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:24 AM): that's a thought, Rob .. but I would like it to be able to keep track of the money for them too (12/20/99 9:25 AM): the hr guy wrote back: "I think it's $65 per year. What a bargain!"

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:25 AM): Every affiliate has his/her own URL for tracking, anyway. It also depends on how variable the goods each person is buying through them.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:25 AM): It's a bargain, JoAnna, as long as you can be sure they're not selling the names out the back door. No FrankelBee can ever accuse me of that, which is important.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:26 AM): there won't be a variety of goods... just a referral fee paid to the person who refers a friend

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:27 AM): Terri, if it's that simple it hardly pays to do more than get a simple script written that logs all the activity for all the URL's and then gathers them up into a monthly excel template for you. Any FrankelBee can do that, I bet.

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:27 AM): I just caught someone by using I got mail to from a large spam free company. They bought the name and the privacy policy says the name shouldn't have been sold. Busted.

George Williams (12/20/99 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:28 AM): You should try Brian Rickman (the link in the frame at the bottom) or Michael Morath. They both did stuff for me quite nicely.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:28 AM): Thanks, Rob and everyone for the input! It gives me a starting point :) (12/20/99 9:29 AM): Good idea Yancey, I do that too with email signups, haven't caught anyone yet.

George Williams (,, (12/20/99 9:29 AM): Entered the room.

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:29 AM): Yancey, I use that trick to make sure my name isn't sold too :) (12/20/99 9:29 AM): Yancey, I totally didn't understand your story just now...

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:29 AM): Brian wrote this chat script and Michael did the archive script for my site for the FrankelBiz

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:30 AM): I'll check with them and tell them you sent me, Rob :) (12/20/99 9:30 AM): Hi, George

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:31 AM): George, you win the prize for squeezing the most URLs into your identifier. Welcome. What can I do for you?

George Williams (,, (12/20/99 9:31 AM): Hi Rob, I've been creating some decent interest in our new cookware at Averaging around 1000 visitors a month to the site now, but can't seem to get over the hump. Have a newsletter with 1000 subscribers and run contests all the time, ranked high in the search engines. What we've got so far has been generated with NO budget, and will continue to be for awhile. Any suggestions.

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:32 AM): What hump are you trying to get over?

George Williams (,, (12/20/99 9:33 AM): Hi Joanna, didn't we talk via email the other day?

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:33 AM): Sorry. I got kicked out & my computer crashed. I think Rob is still grumpy about the ad network idea :) (12/20/99 9:34 AM): George, list your contest at, it gets me lots of entries. You then have to do a good entry form page is all.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:34 AM): Nah, Bob, t'is the season to be jolly and good natured about such things. Server kicked me off about five minutes ago, too. (12/20/99 9:34 AM): I'm not sure, GW, I don't think so...

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:35 AM): Okay, so George, what are you trying to do -- specifically?

Kat ( (12/20/99 9:35 AM): Entered the room.

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:35 AM): George, I noticed your special offer doesn't tell me what the package includes till I get to the order page.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:36 AM): By now, you should be convinced that high ranking in search engines certainly aren't the panacea many people claim.

Bob Adams (12/20/99 9:36 AM): Perhaps it should say 15 piece package.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:37 AM): George, what would you consider to be "over the hump"?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:38 AM): Oy, this site has problems.... (12/20/99 9:38 AM): Hump=1000 visits per month ?

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:38 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:38 AM): He's getting 1000 visitors a month. My guess is that he wants 1000 SALES per month

Yancey ( (12/20/99 9:39 AM): How many visitors to orders are you getting, wanting?

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:39 AM): Sorry Rob, had to reboot and now I see I'm logged in three times. The hump is trying to get world wide recognition for easystrain. I've thought about doing some viral marketing, but time and money are an issue.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:40 AM): Okay, so George, what are you trying to do --


Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:41 AM): George, I can tell you right away that you need to convert the traffic you have. And you won't do that with this site the way it is.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:42 AM): 1000 sales a month? Now that would be something. The feedback I've gotten from the buyers has all been positive and my wife uses the cookware, so I think I've got a winner at a good price.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:42 AM): More recognition is only going to compound the problem and frustrate you.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:43 AM): Any specific site suggestions Rob.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:43 AM): No George, you've got a supportive wife and skewed feedback. You can trust either, in business. The product is probably fine, but the way you're selling it is undermining everything,.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:43 AM): Yup. Get a pencil:

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:44 AM): I'm all ears Rob. I'm sure others in this group have products they would like to brand world wide.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:44 AM): First, eliminate all mention of price from the first page. You're killing yourself with that, because there's no graphical differentiation of the product. It looks like a regular pot, the way the photo is taken.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:45 AM): Please remember, I've done all of this so far on 0 budget.(poor excuse I know) but I am willing to do what I can.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:45 AM): Second, you need to have more expressive and differentiating graphics. SHOW me how it's different, right away.

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:45 AM): Entered the room.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:45 AM): Both good points.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:46 AM): Third, you're begging for the sale by leading with all the special offers. Forget those -- especially the discounts. It's fine to add value to compel orders, but you don't undercut original value

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:46 AM): Take a look at the page. The FIRST thing I notice is a big RED $149. Ouch.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:47 AM): My pencil is humming

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:47 AM): Fourth, you mention pro cookware with a secret -- what's the secret? Spell it out for me along with how your product is the ONLY one with that secret.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:48 AM): Fifth -- and I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here -- lose the picture of the people. It does more to screen out people than include them. Stay focused on PRODUCT, that's what you're selling

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:48 AM): The SECRET is a patented locking-lid, no other straining cookware has it--i.e. almost hands free straining.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:49 AM): Fine, than say that and show that. THAT'S the reason they're going to buy it -- if you believe in your product. Personally, my idea of cooking is ordering it without cheese...

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:49 AM): I thought the picture would make people feel good about the product. Don't worry about stepping on toes, I'm not the designer, and I'm all ears.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:49 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:50 AM): No, what makes people feel good about the product, George, is Frankel's Prime Directive: ...."you're the only solution to their problem." (12/20/99 9:50 AM): Entered the room. (12/20/99 9:50 AM): Speaking of cheese, when are we going to have another Face to Face?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:51 AM): But first you have to clearly illustrate the problem so the solution will have impact. You have to lead them and assume they know nothing... because they usually don't (12/20/99 9:51 AM): my problem is I hate doing dishes, and that g--forsaken colander never gets clean!

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:51 AM): Anyone else with suggestions pleas jump in, or email privately at, I seem to be hogging the forum here. Any joint venture ideas and suggestions please email me.

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:51 AM): JoAnna, I'll do a F2F any time. In fact, I'll be in San Francisco next week and might do one there if anyone is interested. (12/20/99 9:51 AM): hint, don't eat pasta at my house :-)

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:52 AM): George, don't sweat it. This is exactly what we're all here for.

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:53 AM): anyone here from NJ/NY?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:53 AM): George, point 6: You should make your thumbnails clickable to a larger view. And if you're really into it, create an animated GIF for each that rotates each item.

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:53 AM): Suggestions much appreciated Rob. I thought about approaching a cooking TV show , but I fear they are already inundated and the costs would be prohibitive. Has anyone ever approached a TV show with a new product.

rickfier (12/20/99 9:53 AM): yes, NYC; but I've been quiet

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:54 AM): rick what do u do?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:54 AM): George, I'm sure that once your site is up and accessible in those terms, you can get interest -- especially from the cable shows.

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:55 AM): George get it on a cooking show!

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:55 AM): Start out with the local ones that are hungry. Make your mistakes there and then leverage that tape to the next higher level of shows. (12/20/99 9:55 AM): SF is kind of a drive for me, but in Los Angeles, I'm all for it. should shoot for, oh, say, February 4th, dinner, drinks, somewhere where there's lots of free parking, BIG food, and they won't mind a rowdy crowd. Like a Moose lodge!

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:56 AM): Rob, I'm planning on taking the home version of the Billion Dollar Internet Seminar. Will that help me determine corrections like those you have mentioned?

rickfier (12/20/99 9:56 AM): working to get alternative energy business a web presence and marketing an invention

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:56 AM): JoAnna, I'm speaking in Santa Barbara on Feb 4th. I just threw in SF incase anyone here was from the Bay...

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:56 AM): We have tapes from the Shopping Channel in Canada. Sold 800 sets. And sold 100 sets in 10 minutes on QVC, but that wasn't enough to stay on there.

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:57 AM): rick get a nondisclosure!

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:57 AM): George, I know a recipe site that is getting over 30,000 hits a day that might be willing to put your ad on there is their email

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:57 AM): I don't know yet, George. You will be getting tapes of everyone's seminars. But the big benefit, from what I understand, is the four day in person working sessions.

Ronni (12/20/99 9:57 AM): Where will we be able to find the home version of the Seminar? (12/20/99 9:57 AM): Hmm. Santa Barbara is a bit toney for the likes of our crowd, don'tcha think?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:57 AM): Oooh, nice one Terri! Another FrankelBiz connection!

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:58 AM): I think you can find everything through

George Williams( (12/20/99 9:58 AM): Hi Terri, Would the cost be prohibitive. I'm looking right now at a middle of page ad in a Recipe newsletter that goes out to 130,000 people. Cost is $100 for one day.

sweetsoaps (12/20/99 9:58 AM): HEY Ronni,, ITS ellen,,LOL

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:58 AM): JoAnna, I wasn't meaning we should do it there. As you know, I always prefer staying close to home (San Fernando Valley/Los Angeles)

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 9:59 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

rickfier (12/20/99 9:59 AM): sweetsoaps - how do you mean "nondisclosure?" in what context have you written this (sorry to all else for the cross-talk; is that allowed . . . or just NYC rudeness?) (12/20/99 9:59 AM): Gotcha. Let us know when you're not busy, and we'll make something happen!!!

Terri ( (12/20/99 9:59 AM): I think you could have an ad up on the site for under $300 a month, George.. but you could talk to them and see what sort of deal you could work out (12/20/99 9:59 AM): Nope, crosstalk is the norm...

George Williams( (12/20/99 10:00 AM): Thanks for all the super help and suggestions everyone!

Ronni (12/20/99 10:00 AM): When is the next on-line chat, Rob?

Rob Frankel ( (12/20/99 10:00 AM): Okay, everyone. Next week: The final Free Clinic of the millennium from San Francisco! See you online!

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